Road Map Train Sim World 2 - Roadmap Update 11/01/2022

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. Es4t

    Es4t Active Member

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    I couldn’t give a flying one for Steam either!
    You realistically need two people to drive a steam train….fireman and driver. It will end up a very poor representation imo.
     
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  2. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Sooooo if the only UK route is in production is the Steam route, Why did Nat and Matt announce a UK route in production that'll be released before Harlem? Was that a mistake? Is the steam route due out before Harlem? Or was it said just to mollify those enquiring about any upcoming UK releases?
     
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  3. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't really mind that if the codes were actually accurate, but they aren't. Dresden Chemnitz should be DBG-R7, not DBB-R7.
     
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  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    The next UK route is the first steam route. It was supposed to come out before Harlem but was shifted back to release after Harlem to see some more development time.
     
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  5. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well it works perfectly well in TS1 whether you do both duties or have automatic fireman switched on, as it did with MSTS, so I can't see why it won't work in TSW. I think it will look quite spectacular.
     
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  6. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    All the previous roadmap format needed was renaming the upcoming section to “testing pending”. This would explain the pileup and prevent confusion.

    Most importantly, it’s no longer a map without the development stage headings. Map implies guidance, but without the development stages there’s no guidance. Without new announcements and development stages it is irrelevant to the interests of the community. It has become detached from the original intention. Internally it may serve well as a checklist, but the community doesn’t need that. My personal interest in reading future updates has become non-existent with this change, because there will be nothing to learn from it. Please admit failure and revert to the previous format.

    The game is an incoherent mess as it is, and we don’t really need communication to fall apart as well.
     
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  7. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    if you get time watch the road map stream. Everything is explained there.

    Regards
    Hentis
     
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  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Because it is a UK route in production. And he said it might be released before Harlem not definately.
     
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  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’m wondering how the announcement of new content is going to work. The article and the stream stated things will go on the roadmap even before they are fully pinned down but the article also says that the roadmap is not the place to find out about new content as it will be announced elsewhere. It can’t be both. I’m still a bit confused.

    At least they have confirmed that the next route based in the UK is the steam route. It took several ambiguous statements, hints, confusing and subsequently false information given out on streams, the inclusion in code on the roadmap and finally Sam saying it out loud in real English words on tonight’s stream, something that maybe could have been said weeks ago. It doesn’t have to be so hard.
     
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  10. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    In this year?
     
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  11. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t agree more. Well said.
    I’m half Danish and spent a lot of time, when not in the UK, out there. There are many things people would like. But where a large audience is, that’s where DTG are most likely to go.

    I really don’t mind not having a specific route at the moment, and having the devs building addons which may not interest me really doesn’t have much affect on me. We don’t have to buy the DLC if we don’t want to, thusly I don’t mind.
     
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  12. pascal.weick

    pascal.weick Active Member

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    Exactly. Tell em how it is. I cant hear the damn "we want more UK Routes" anymore
     
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  13. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Cant wait to finally hear the roaring of steam engines. Was also sure there will be another route before steam, but according to their "route deciding process" it has to be in the transition era. Would be a selling point for the cl40, 20, 31 etc. In br green.

    So a steam route in the 50s is nice for sure, but stuck in it self. Second possibility is that they are working on 2 loco dlcs for the steam route, and they might be not ready. Who knows.

    In the end there is still tsg, rivet and just trains. So im looking forward to a cool mixed traction year
     
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  14. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts on why the DB BR 232 disappeared

    I assume the DB BR 232 has disappeared from the Roadmap because the release is still a long way off. Otherwise it would be in the section "Removed from the roadmap".

    But that also means that the release of the BR 420 is imminent.

    But if the work was really stopped, it would be the biggest disappointment in 2022
     
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  15. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    It should be within a timeframe of 6 months as Protagonist mentions on stream they don’t like to put things on roadmap that will take longer than six months
     
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  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    To be fair (as stated in the roadmap blurb), the order of the items will give you a rough idea of release timings....effectively this is no different to putting them under the headers of Next Arrival, Upcoming, In Production & in Planning. The items can still shift around as they did previously (The only one you could decipher as a release time was next arrival as it meant it releases before the next roadmap -- usually by that point we already knew the release date anyway)

    New routes will still show up on the roadmap but will start out as a code and change to the actual route name once it has had its official announcement / Dovetail Live article etc

    The information is the same it is just shown differently hence it is still a roadmap
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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  17. locobilly

    locobilly Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes I wonder if DTG are actually a UK Company.
     
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  18. locobilly

    locobilly Well-Known Member

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    It would appear so. Annoying thing is there are US and German train sims and they only cover their own countries whilst DTG seem to be hellbent on aiding them and ignoring British railways. If I had my way US and German would get entirely dumped and just UK would be covered. There is enough rail history and current rail in this country to make an excellent game and provide add-ons forever. Why should we pander to Germans and Americans who have their own game manufacturers. We're too generous in this country in thinking about others.
     
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  19. fatnslo#7264

    fatnslo#7264 Member

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    What is taking so long with these Preservation routes?? Nearly 4 months since DTG did a stream about updates to the Peninsula route and still no word on when it will be finished or if it ever will.
     
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  20. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    They were always talking about a freight loco for dresden tharandter rampe. I asume its the railpool 185.6.
    Maik from tsg is usually getting active here when its about his products. So far we didnt hear anything.
     
  21. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    It is really quite clear. From their Terms and Conditions page:
    That does sound like a UK company to me. ;)

    Cheers
     
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  22. dalekjimster#9505

    dalekjimster#9505 New Member

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    England and yeah I know it takes time I'm just putting it out there some of my favourite Train routes, I'm from the north west.
     
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  23. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I’m not all that interested in steam, I certainly wouldn’t pay £25 for a DLC revolving around it, however I wouldn’t mind seeing Steam engines on Railtours and in realistic settings, on other DLC.

    That said, if a steam DLC were to come bundled with some older BR era locos, I certainly would get stuck into them.

    My biggest fear with steam, is that we get a route I’d like to see in a more modern setting (90’s - Present Day), because that would all but certainly count it out for a good while, for an experience I would fully enjoy.
     
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  24. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where to even begin with that one.

    DTG have been in business since 2009 making routes and locos for many countries around the world. I presume you would just dump all that history. Unfortunately for you, TSW will almost certainly expand its coverage to countries outside the "Big Three" eventually, which will gladden the hearts of our fellow fans in places such as Australia and the rest of Europe, and dampen the spirits of isolationists everywhere.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
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  25. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we will be speculating routes like we did in pre TSW 2.
     
  26. phillip.good

    phillip.good Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with piping up when I don’t like something…. Like when I logged a ticket every time I got a red light and posted on the technical forum until Nat responded to say they would do something.

    As for the roadmap, it’s ‘meh’. I don’t either like or dislike it, it’s a bit like the routes; they come out, I hear the reviews, I take my picks… some are better than others and I respect somebody when they think something I dislike is the bees knees.
     
  27. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    As someone who is only interested in British content and has only bought British content I can to an extent understand your sentiment, I would love it if every single route that came out was British.

    However, that choice has nothing to do with me and with the American and German fans being such a massive part of this community I do not in the slightest wish for them to get a lesser experience in favour of my own. A diverse experience which many people can enjoy is something that I very much appreciate.

    In all honesty I think your notion is remarkably selfish. At the end of the day, if you want a train simulator that caters specifically to what you want then I suggest you get to work and start making one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
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  28. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Well-Known Member

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    I don't hate nor love the new format, but my biggest gripe is the preserved collection section. We already know from various past streams the new focus direction the PC is taking, so by default every route should already be listed, and what was present today [Route Name] upgrade isn't helpful. It should list the things the PC are doing to the routes, something like

    Preserved Collection
    [All preserved routes]
    -Updated Skybox
    -Crossing gates

    [Route Name]
    -Route specific fix
    etc...

    And if that will end up being too big, then I'd really suggest moving out of the article format to a dedicated webpage that has expandable sections to contain it - honestly, either way I feel like that would be a better organization of it anyway.

    The other thing I'd really like to see, is a section dedicated to bug fixes. Not a bug tracking list of everything reported, but a section that's dedicated to the various bugs the teams plan to investigate/fix during the current roadmap period. When the next roadmap arrives, anything that is fixed is then removed, anything that isn't stays. But there'd be no regular tracking of it's time frame since they can move quickly. This would also enable you to put in a request for additional repro cases from the community that may help speed up the investigation, if you so desired.

    I do feel though, the "roadmap" is trending away from a roadmap and more towards, well probably, a dev diary is what comes to mind, and that might be stretching it. Roadmaps usually have expected time frames of when things arrive, note that a time frame doesn't necessarily mean a date. Software usually targets version numbers, i.e., in v1.2.0 we expect these features..., though obviously that doesn't make a lot of sense for TSW as a game. I'm not going to be as dramatic as some others that act like their life depends on knowing every detail of DTGs operations, but having a sense of where things are in the dev cycle is helpful. I do, however, like that new DLCs aren't announced on the roadmap. I feel like that's a much better way to announce new products than burying them in the clutter that is the roadmap.
     
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  29. mattk#4569

    mattk#4569 Active Member

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    The U.S. barley gets any love so it’s about time I’m tired of the European routes
     
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  30. mattk#4569

    mattk#4569 Active Member

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    There’s only been maybe one or two U.S. releases since like year or two ago stfu the U.S. barley gets any love on TSW it’s rare to even get an Amtrak route it only took them two years to do that and before the new age we used to the world standard for trains all we mainly on TSW is European routes Im tired of it I get the appeals but personally I feel like U.S. has the best looking and sounding trains out there maybe not in speed but that’s my opinion
     
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  31. mattk#4569

    mattk#4569 Active Member

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    The U.S. has only got two locos and two new maps out of maybe year or two like bruh I’m tired of Euro maps honestly
     
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  32. mattk#4569

    mattk#4569 Active Member

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    Stfu you’ve already got so many routes already the world doesn’t revolve around the UK
     
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  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No comment necessary, really.

    If American and German (and Dutch and Danish and Australian) players all had your attitude, and DTG took your advice, they'd be lucky to sell 5000 copies. Now, go put on your red coat and pith helmet and sing a few verses of Rule, Britannia until you feel better.
     
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  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    As always, DTG are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

    We have here a Goldilocks situation. When the Roadmap debuted just over a year ago, the porridge was too hot: it included too much detail, too early, and DTG got burned for it, whether it was the Dresden branches, or the lapse of time between the 313 announcement and release.

    So they went too far the other way: by the end of last year the porridge was too cold, with nothing announced until the eve of the preview stream. Certainly this wasn't keeping the players abreast of developments, and "If it's not on the Roadmap..." simply wasn't true.

    Now they're aiming to get the porridge just right: by telling us that which has been set in concrete as soon as it has been set in concrete, but nothing else (until it, too, has been poured into the forms).

    Frankly I don't miss the old "Upcoming/In Production/In Planning" organization, because it created distorted expectations about release dates. Now, what we get is "It's coming, eventually" with no other scheduling info save a provisional release order- an approach which I think is both more informative and less likely to result in misunderstandings.
     
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  35. damarjatiaji

    damarjatiaji Guest

    Well, i don't mean to be racist or stereotyping other people's nationality but, I've read so many British selfish comment.
    Well i think it's just British being British
     
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  36. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, sometimes the entitlement is quite shocking. And I'm a Brit too! What about this spin: its nice that it was confirmed the first steam train in TSW 2 will be a British one. I would like to see more French content too, so not going to demand only UK content. I think they said before that there is an international team of people working on the game.
     
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  37. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    I'm at a loss to think of something that better demonstrates the futility of trying to please everyone than people actually complaining that a feature previously announced as being included in a paid DLC will now be given free in a core update. I feel like I woke up in Opposite Day.
     
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  38. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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    The DB BR612 is a DMU
     
  39. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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    I'm not too keen on the new layout of the roadmap i actually liked it with the symbols so you could understand what you was being worked on
     
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  40. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    I think it's certainly much too early to be calling out whether or not the new roadmap is better or worse than it's previous iterations. The forum is way too quick to judgement without even letting the darn thing run its course yet.
    We have yet to see how things move between roadmaps in this new format.
    Even then, so what if it's worse than it's previous iterations? We can continue to change and tweak things, and that's perfectly fine. However, I do not believe getting rid of the roadmap is the right choice.

    For those who have stuck around since the pre-TSW2020 days, you'd might remember a time when it felt like progress was slow. Updates were few and far in between. And for much of the community, route previews and articles were the only places we could offer feedback and maybe get back a response. That has drastically changed nowadays, and it feels like community feedback has a much bigger impact than ever before all thanks to the introduction of a roadmap. Every two weeks the community gets a glimpse into what's being worked on, and those on the stream can respond to concerns raised by us. It wouldn't make sense to backtrack on all that progress.

    I'm personally impartial to the new state of the roadmap, and once again that's largely because we haven't seen how things move between roadmaps in this new format. It makes sense as to why things were changed, so I believe it's best to wait and see if it'll do its job. But please, don't get rid of the roadmap, as that will almost certainly have a negative impact between the devs and the community.
     
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  41. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Canada but I'm not annoyed and there has not been 1 route released for TSW2 yet for my country.

    This game is not made specifically for any one players wants, so I'm just happy we get what we get. If anything the only player the game is built specifically for would be Matt. He is the executive producer, but even then he doesn't get everything he wants when he wants either.

    If you think you could build the route faster then why not apply? DTG are hiring.
     
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  42. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    No matter what they do it will never be satisfying to the community. Half want news as soon as DTG think about it , the other when it is all confirmed.

    If they announce dates and they change they get blasted, they don't until 1 week before and they get blasted.

    They just can't satisfy everyone and the game is not being made to order to what everyone wants. Thats not how games are made. Oh and guess what? It takes time for all these fixes and DLC to be made. Its not like they just think of it and the computers do it all by that. There is work involved and people who need to be paid. So stopping to produce new DLC and just work on existsting issues makes no money which means no staff and the end of the product.

    The sooner people realize these facts all they are going to do is grumble and say that they are done with the game and not be happy or enjoy it anymore.

    Then the very next article they are back still saying they are not going to play it any more. It is a sheer comedy on these forums.
     
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  43. DeStijl

    DeStijl Well-Known Member

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    I mean, Oakville was bad, sure ... but you can't deny that it exists.
     
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  44. damarjatiaji

    damarjatiaji Guest

    This is the smartest comment/statement i've read on this thread so far. Well said sire
     
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  45. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Well done and for the British Steam locomotive it might be a GWR 57xx Duck GWR 14xx Oliver with Toad brakevan or Autocoach Dulcie/ Isabel Type. Next steam locomotive Germany a Deutsche Bundesbahn 082 010 or it's East German Deutsche Reichsbahn DDR equivalent (german state railways) 65.10 18 201.
     
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  46. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't watch the stream yesterday, can someone tell me, why livery designer and scenario planer 2.0 are suspended and will they still come to TSW in the future?
     
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  47. rjeeves#3580

    rjeeves#3580 Active Member

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    They want to let the creators club come out first and make sure that beds in without any issues. Then they are going to see how people use the creators club and see if that can influence how they go forward with the livery designer 2.0 and scenario planner 2.0
     
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  48. MaineRailfan222345

    MaineRailfan222345 New Member

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    Even though the new roadmap they released for 2022 is a bit confusing for some, I can still understand it, as I know how game development is and sometimes it can be really slow or really fast based on the resources they have at hand that they can tell us what is what and when it'll be coming out. So the fact that people may or may not like is that Dovetail is just doing what they can to keep things straight and let the game development do it's thing. Not to mention that they are trying to keep things compounded so they don't get buried in the roadmap. Which helps because now for some people like myself who check everyone once in a while don't miss out on things.
     
  49. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Unbelievable and frankly nonsense, there are plenty of British add-ons, the first steam add-on will be British!

    As a Brit I would love to see a lot more British content as that is my main interest but I don't want TSW or TS1 to become insular. I enjoy routes from all over the world and it is interesting learning about the different signalling etc.

    If they stop producing add-ons from other countries then they will lose a lot of their customers too which hardly makes business sense.
     
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  50. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    But it isn't a roadmap, it's a dev blog, just having in the name "Roadmap" for some reason. It's showing just what they are working on at the moment and not a map including what they are planning to work on in the near future. In a roadmap for example scenario planner 2.0 & livery designer 2.0 wouldn't be removed just because the work on them has been suspended for a while until something else is done, but only when they were completely scrapped from the project.

    If anything, I'd suggest changing "Roadmap" to "Dev Blog" for such type of articles and for related to it live streams.
     
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