Road Map Train Sim World 2 - Roadmap Update 11/01/2022

There is something that caught my attention in last night's stream.

The fact that they want to add a route on the roadmap as soon as things are certain that it will be produced, despite not knowing at the time all locomotives and rolling stock that will come with it but instead add them later when they know more.
I think it leaves a margin for abuse and can be again a sign of leaving margins and safety nets just like the removal of the time progression from the roadmap itself.

If the players will receive well enough the newly announced route as it is posted, perhaps no more effort is needed to add any other loco or rolling stock thus saving time. We already know how much they like to save time rather than reproduce matters in a true to life approach.

For me, this and the roadmap change have the potential to go into another poor year in terms of management, commitment, respect and decission making.

 

I would still like more detail on what’s happened to the BR 232 and SP 2.0. Was anything said on the stream to clarify?

 

Scenario Planner 2.0 and Livery Designer 2.0 are being put on pause while the Creators Club is being rolled out and community feedback is collected. The idea is that the feedback from the sharing tools will influence what kind of changes and improvements will be made to the existing tools. I also expect that this is being done to allow easier integration of the 2.0 tools with Creators Club once the latter is more stable. This makes sense to me and was my first suspicion when I read that they have been "suspended" as opposed to "cancelled".

No mention of the DB BR 232.

Cheers

 

Wait, there is something wrong with the BR 420 code.
It says "DBB-L5 01"
Which means: Germany, Electric AC, Electric AC, Loco, 1951 to 1990
But Maik has shown some screenshots inside the ET420 cab and it shows a MFD Screen, and LZB. There's no ET420 S-Bahn München with MFD Screen in that code date. Did they removed the MFD to fit the date?

 

You shouldn't trust the codes, they are usually always wrong in some way

 

Would have thought they already have a good idea of what is needed - just give us the equivalent of MSTS consist and activity editor. 99% of the scenarios I create will be for my personal use anyway, sharing not high on my agenda.

The 232 definitely a concern though. Just hope they haven’t done a Flight Sim World on it - i.e. get the anticipation up then pull the plug with no explanation.

 

Sooo... I did it the other way round... first read this long thread and then looked at the new roadmap (with worst fears).

Now I have a problem. I found the roadmap clear and logically structured and understandable. The previous roadmaps I always had to read three times to get everything. Sure, it is a bit more general than before (the Preservation Crew section actually just says that everything is being worked on somehow) ... but I still don't understand why half the forum is acting as if their flat had been set on fire and their family was kidnapped.

 

For the first attempt at the new format there should have been a transitional version, which would contain the wilder speculation about SP20 being postponed and whether the 232 has been canned. Not all of us have time to watch the streams and sift through the “woffle” (no offence) for pertinent information. A clear and concise statement as to what’s going on with these two items in particular would be appreciated.

 

That is the euphemism of the day.

Please tell me how you do it. I also have to deal with (mostly angry) clients for a living, I need this drug.

 

Somehow many people forget that DTG doesn't owe us anyhing. They don't owe us a roadmap. Nor do they owe us routes from UK only because they have to prove their patriotsim (most nonsense post I've read here for a loooong time).

They do it to include the community, include their wishes, make them see how things are going on. The old roadmap got inaccurate, so DTGs own plan to let us know what is developed at what stage didn't work anymore. Now they take a modified approach (as Matt said: "We don't want another 2021") and that's their first approach. I am sure JD, Nat and Sam do look closely at the costructive feedback in this thread (not the parts where people just brabble about so called patriotism, Her Majesty's Royal DTG and "No more routes from [insert one of the big three here]") and use the feedback to make the next roadmap clearer.

But as always, the very same people who bash, keep bashing instead of trying to say ANYTHING constructive. "I just hate it" - fine. But why actually? And this is the part where many seem to struggle to answer. Which maes me think that this is more than poor judgement.

I hope the issue with the TSG 232 can be adressed by anyone as it wasn't in the stream.

 

Appreciate the information JD, even if it's not the best news those of us looking for a main line German diesel wanted to hear.

 

Same, I love the UK stuff as I know it well and it's always a day one purchase for me, The other countries don't hold the same appeal to me and so I often wait until they are on massive reductions before I consider buying them, However that is just me, I would never expect DTG or any company for that matter to dump foreign routes and concentrate on one country only, That's a career killer for the company, Is it frustrating there are no UK DLC's on the road map? Yeah it is for me but I do know there are upcoming routes in the pipeline and the Preservation crew are working on past routes as we speak and it's not like we haven't had enough UK stuff this past year anyway.

 

I've now given up on TSW2. It's clear that the game just doesn't improve and will not offer anything new in the future. Three countries with nothing truly unique and new. I've had my fair share of UK, Germany and US, and it's also clear the developers are fully comfortable with churning out DLC from these regions only. So much work goes into this game with nothing new as the end result. No variation in the environment or even in the locomotives. After all these years, it's just underwhelming and disappointing. I expected more from this game, honestly.

 

Ill judge this by the releases we get, not by a new roadmap system. Until now i got every dlc was released for tsw, just to support dtg making good content.

For 2022, if i dont like what they create, im not gonna buy it. This is a result of the cutback (features, routes, dtgs blindness for extensions). When i think there is improvement, sure they will get my money even twice the price if the quality is good.

Right now it looks its not about screwing the community, they just want avoid a wild jumping roadmap with 3x 180 degree turns of the content in a short amount of time.

Spirit of steam makes a good advertisement to call this year promising & improving. Just hope they are not gonna waste its first impact on a cutted a to b route, caused by deadline politics.
Especially with uk routes, where almost every single house got its own branchline.

 

Industrialization originally took shape in Great Britain and English is the most spoken language globally. So in many ways the world actually does revolve around the UK.

 

Can we stop the childish slanging match between which countries you think are better/what only you want to see, please? It isn’t constructive or helpful in any way, and just clutters up the thread.

 

another British just being British moments, what my colleage teacher told were true about Britons

 

Prepare for UK vs. world battle No.500000

 

Are you saying I’m British? I’m not.

Ironic accusation as DTG has never allowed the roadmap to run its course before changing it.

 

Oh i'm sorry for that, sounds like defending the British to me

 

Totally agree but we seem to be in a minority pal. I don't mind some content from other countries but it always seems like the UK stuff is more of an afterthought. Until yesterday there were four roadmaps with no UK route on it. That has never happened to Germany or the US. By the time the UK gets it's next route the US will have had 3 and Germany at least 2.

 

What about what we've been always told in the live streams that "if it isn't on the roadmap, we should assume it isn't being currently worked and it isn't in the plans of ever being done"?

At the present we are being told that when something has been removed from the roadmap it's sill happening, but not in the nearest future. Should we now assume that anything that isn't in the roadmap but was ever requested is in the plans?

 

I think the major point here is that there has NEVER been content from China, Japan, Africa, Australia etc etc on the roadmap and DTG have basically said there never will be, so if you're from GB, US and DE you will get content, but everyone else can go whistle.

Us UK people already have several routes, locos, MUs etc to play with and we can reminisce all we want about driving them, riding them or watching them
Many other people around the world were hoping that Train Sim WORLD was going to give them a similar experience, but it won't

 

I think the point to take from this whole discussion is that for whatever reason those who prefer British content don't find German or American routes at all interesting.

The only routes and locos I truly get excited for are modern British stuff. They're the only bits of content in TSW2 I stick with. But I still enjoy brief flings with other stuff. I'd say Boston Sprinter is in my top five routes if it weren't for all the ongoing signalling problems (seriously when will DTG fix this, it's been months).

To hear that no British route apart from Spirit of Steam is in production is incredibly disappointing for me, as it means I'll likely have to wait at least half a year for an add on to be announced that I'll care for. But that doesn't mean I'm going to act like a petulant child about it. The immaturity of some people on this forum is astounding.

I can still enjoy the stuff already in the game, and I may use this time to get back into TS Classic. There are countless routes and locos in that game that are right up my alley for me to get stuck into.

 

You shouldn't assume anything, ever, from anyone...
But to answer your point, just because it's on the roadmap many people assume that this is written in stone and that it's going to happen, so rather than seeing things as "a wishlist", or "a proposal", or even "an intention" they start jumping all over DTG's bones until someone acknowledges that something they said in an offhand comment half way through a stream six months ago may not have been totally completely factually accurate

In other words the roadmap has been killed by the people for whom "wait and see" applies to others

DTG have put themselves in a very awkward position where they have talked about things and even put out "details" of those things without the caviat at every stage that these things are proposals. Unfortunately they've also put themselves in the position that they don't actually completely firm up what they're doing until a few weeks before release, making a "roadmap" more like a "short cul-de-sac map"
And even then the wolves hunt for every little detail

 

The "it's not on the roadmap, so it's not being worked on" was always a lie anyway. Take Sherman Hill for example, that popped onto the roadmap and was released about a month later.

 

What I also find funny is the Fact that they say "If it is not on the Roadmap we will not work on it" but explain in the next sentence, Building a route takes about 8 months.

 

By doing so people are thinking that making a route or a loco takes a maximum of a month from its planning until release instead of 1-3 years. They may also assume that after a 3rd party joins the TSW development we'll get a new route already a month later.

I liked how class 313 spent over a year on the roadmap. It was showing that all the thing isn't just a simple "import the model, add a few services to timetable, test for a few days and release the whole thing".

 

I appreciate I am taking the above slightly out of context, but as someone who has purchased a lot of the content, which has subsequently been found not to be working correctly. They've taken our money for what could be described as a substandard product - I am talking about broken scenarios, journey modes, missing collectables, broken loco features, all of which are reported time and time again on these forums.

In my opinion they do owe it to us, as the end users to sort these problems with the greatest urgency and to communicate with us about what they are doing to resolve these issues. But it seems with every format change to the roadmap, that less and less detail is provided about these historic issues, some which are nearing a couple of years old and in danger of being "forgotten" about especially as it seems that the preservation crew are now focusing adding new features to routes rather than sorting the historic bugs.

 

I tried to shed light on an old fact. Saying the world doesn't revolve around the UK in this particular context just rubbed me the wrong way, because we are on an English forum run by a UK company simulating trains, which can be traced back to industrualization in Great Britain. So it all ties together.

 

Having thought about it I think the decision to effectively say the roadmap contains things that will be released within 6 months, and that the order is the intended order for release is another mistake.

It just sets peoples expectations and yet as we have seen this year things happen, ordering gets messed up, something getting delayed has knock-on effects etc. It is fairly similar to what happens when a train is late!

Anyway, I can see in the future the items being listed strictly in alphabetical order in each section and players being told to look out for first looks and preview streams in order to work out what is likely to arrive next. Generally once things get screens released and played on streams they are very close to release and it is all but certain it is coming next. But prior to that point, why even go there?

If they do want feedback about people's desires for what should be included in a pack then that can be asked directly, but frankly I think that is one element of feedback that isn't used, the decisions about the scope of the project are normally based internal considerations like resource availability.

 

Just wanted to add that, with some clarifications in the roadmap stream I quite like the new roadmap style, to be brutally honest I don't really care this vs the old format as long as I can quickly see and notice new things and changes, so as long as this

is true I'm fine with it.

The fact that we will see routes being included earlier but with some ambiguity makes me really happy (btw is this the first time a suggestion of mine has been adopted to the letter? - not claiming I was the reason behind it, just a nice coincidence)

Anyway fingers crossed that the "3 items" will get released next week, and I believe overall this is a step in the right direction.

 

Can people stop moaning about no UK route or content. Lets list all UK stuff released last year compared to US.
UK RELEASES
Southeastern HS
Class 465
GCC
Class 313
Bakerloo 1938 stock
London - Brighton incl class 387 with panto
GWR pack
West Cornwell line
RHB Anniversary pack
US RELEASES
Clichfield
Cane Creek
Sherman hill
Boston Sprinter
Lol not even close And only Boston Sprinter was the only passenger route produced by DTG So they did only 2 add ons for USA players . Complain that more German content has been released because US in TSW2 has only 3 passenger routes
Boston
San Francisco
New York .Players in USA, We want more stop complaining already. WHY SHOULD UK GET SO MUCH MORE THAN USA . i love the uk routes . U guys should learn to love USA content and stop being biased

 

There are plenty of profanities used on the forum, JD., often in the form of acronyms. We can spot them, you guys apparently cannot or are maybe OK with them.

 

Yes I agree, I don't mind the layout, it seems quite logical to me. I was just sceptical as I (mis)read that there wouldn't be any mentions of upcoming projects and being someone who always read from bottom up (in planning) I will miss that rush of intrigue every other Tuesday!

I can understand them not wanting to announce things to early. However, as can bee seen today from the not quite accurate furore around the perceived lack of British releases, if there is not a sign of another (non steam period) UK route (also the other countries too) on the roadmap for a couple of months there will be much gnashing of teeth, I fear!

 

Look at 3rd party devs. We've got Just trains coming. They exclusively do UK stuff. Rivet has released two UK routes, with new rolling stock, as well as a separate train for the Bakerloo line. The UK is clearly getting the most attention. Look at how much attention was invested into making the London commuter timetable... no other country gets this much.

Also with variety - we've got modern as well as routes set in the past, with the associated rolling stock. No other country has that much diversity. I'd argue that it is thanks to DTG being british, and therefore having an easier time making this kind of project happen, maybe I'm talking out of my ass.

In 2021 alone, 4 british routes as well as 3 rolling stock DLCs were released. No other country has had the same amount of content.

And I fear that driving 50 miles with an unchallenging AWS gets repetitive quite quickly. But fair enough if you want so much UK content that at some point your house and car will end up modeled in the game.

Now look at the new German route and its new stock: the BR 612 is a tilting train, which is a first, comes with a new safety system and is a DMU, which is a first for Germany. No wonder people are excited about this.

 

To be fair, the majority of the time it was on the roadmap it wasn’t being actively worked on. Not only was this said, but you can tell by the way it was released. It’s got quite a few obvious bugs, as well as physics issues. This wouldn’t be present if it was being worked on for the full duration it was on the roadmap.

 

Well at the same time if you look at the state of rail transport in the US... In 2 years time we are gonna run out of American routes/locos to make and have to make fictional ones ;-)

 

That's true. I am excited for Just Trains content, but we'll probably have to wait a while to see the first route as they need time to get to grips with the game.

I'm not completely uninterested in what's upcoming. The BR 612 does look interesting, I may even get the route if it goes on sale. I'm also quite interested to see what the Harlem line is like, although I fear it may end up like LIRR for me where I play it a few times, go "that's neat" and never touch it again.

I'm still crossing my fingers and hoping for another high speed route, especially another TGV route. That's the other thing that would get me very excited if announced.

 

That will likely be the case, at least to an extent.

DTG decide in Jan-early Feb what their releases for the coming year are going to be. So there won't be anything to announce, at least not in the next roadmap or two.

 

Yep and it just means I get to spend my money elsewhere until they bring something out that interests me even slightly (so probably Autumn)

 

That's the case for everyone. After CSX/HH, ages back, I despaired of ever getting another serious freight route. Then in 2021 they released Clinchfield, Cane Creek and Sherman Hill, with Horseshoe Curve coming (fingers crossed Skyhook does an OK job).

 

I highly doubt the 3 items would released next week, since DTG and TSW2 already announced that the next released DLC is NDD-R7 03 aka The Horseshoe Curve by Skyhook after following after Tharandter Rampe.

 

The UK doesn't even have one "serious freight route" set after 1990...

 

That means you simply removed the 232 without even talking to TSG? What does in planning mean? Maik has already shown pictures of the 3D model. In March 2021, so it should be clearly in development and not just in planning. Somehow the communication among each other seems not to be the best.

Maik has always said that the order is G6, 420 and then 232.

 

Well, I'm starting to get cautiously optimistic about the new year. A steam route, the Harlem Line and HSC ( even though it's set in the wrong era for me ). A nice mix. Trouble is I have so much content I haven't even explored yet, I'm loath to add more routes. But I know I will succumb to the temptation, especially since my Steam wallet is pretty healthy. I just wish I could find more time to play.

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I really can't see the problem.

We knew beforehand that the 232 would still take a long time. We know from Maik that he is working on it and that it will come sometime after the 420.

What is different now? Whether it is on the roadmap or not is completely irrelevant. Nothing has changed in terms of our information or the status quo.

People always act as if everything that is not on the roadmap suddenly no longer exists.