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Train Sim World 2 - Western Glory

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think many players, especially those on consoles, may be unfamiliar with the concept of "scenario packs", which have a long and successful history in TS202X. They are a way to get substantial extra gameplay, using routes and stock you already own. Obviously, DTG would like to extend this idea to TSW2, partly depending on the success of this pack. Authenticity is a problem for many in this case, but, since we can't realistically make our own extra scenarios in these kinds of numbers, I think the general idea has a lot of potential. For many of us this pack represents a convenient way to refresh a route that's looking a bit jaded and long in the tooth. For those who think differently, " No thanks " is a perfectly acceptable answer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
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  2. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Aha, scenario packs that cost £15?...
     
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  3. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Console gamers know when DLC is good value for money or not. You forget that most games on console have some sort of DLC aspect.
     
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  4. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's quite a bit more than TS packs. If you think that's too much, vote with your wallet, and maybe that will change in the future. I hate to keep repeating the old adage, but here goes: You don't have to buy every dlc that comes out.
     
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  5. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I just finished watching the end of your Twitch replay from last night. I agree with everything you said on there. At this stage I will save the money for something else though I will watch the DTG stream tonight to see which side their doors are opening ;-)
     
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  6. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    That's a fair comment. It's still buy or don't buy though, is it not?
     
  7. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well if most people wanted a electrified version then I suspect a small minority would complain. Also they could make the route longer with the 800s
     
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  8. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    All perfect. But you see, the point is another.
    Have you ever spent £ 15 on a package of Timetables for TSXX, thus paying off the rolling stock and maps you already own?
    If Diesel Legends were to sell for 10 Euros (£ 7-8?) I would have taken it at launch without hesitation as I have done with every single package released since 2017 for TSW and TSW2. Ethically speaking, I do not find it fair at all that those who already own all the rolling stock in Diesel Legends should pay the same price as those who would buy for the first time, in this case doing a bargain. I find this trend disrespectful, on the part of all software houses to grab new consumers, however penalizing those who have already supported you since day one.
    You are right to talk about console players, so I remind you that on consoles there are no March Madness nor all kinds of semi-permanent discounts that you PC users benefit from (and you often complain as well, considering that you spend on average half). Only the Class 52 I paid 14 Euros (plus 14 Euros for 31, 14 Euros for 33, etc etc) because on consoles the offers on TSW and TSW2 are almost non-existent. So I would be a console player (clearly a derogatory term) and I don't have the culture of scenario packs or are you the one who doesn't have a lot of clarity about how the console market works? Here, Diesel Legends, you would pay it £ 15 even 2 years after launch.
    Maybe not you, but Dovetail knows this well.
     
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  9. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    You won't find that sentiment in anything I've ever posted.
     
  10. paulgregs

    paulgregs Active Member

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    Isn't the point that if you already own the 52, the 101, and the 08 then you get all of the service modes and scenarios that came with them for which ever route they came included with. You don't get that unless you buy the route. I don't see this as any different....

    Can you imagine if a discount was applied to this, you would then have people who own this demanding a reduction on NTP, TVL, because they would already own most of the stock on those routes from this route, and it could get very confusing....
     
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  11. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Imma do the math for a casual player who wants all the trains that would run on this alternate timetable but dont own them. Western Diesel Legends (Class 52, Class 101. The 101 was rare on this route. And the Class 08.) That's $22.99. You need Great Western Express to use this pack, $29.99. (If you just want gwe and this pack with the three trains alone and don't own gwe, that's $52.98) If you want to use the class 31, you need tees valley, $29.99. If you want freight services and the Class 45 and 47/4 you need the Heavy Freight Pack which is $19.99 and Northern Trans Pennine is $29.99 and that's before sales tax. If we add that all up that would cost $132.95. That's pretty expensive just for a timetable mode that's supposed to replicate the route in the 70s but doesn't look like the 70s. Dlc for dlc for dlc for dlc. I'm sure dtg didn't want to do extensions because they said they didn't want to make a dlc for dlc system for routes. But I guess things like these were the exception. Utter hypocrites. At least they did a about face because that would just make them hypocrites. Maybe people can see why some have called it a bit of a cash grab. It's a pack that doesn't change the look of the route (yes I get why but it probably would have gotten a positive reception if that was the case) it's a pack that hasn't received a positive reception overall on the forums at least, it uses a train that hardly ran on the route in reality and was more common in blue than the blue/grey. Had they push back the announcement so a slot could be open to make the 117s, that probably would've made more people including the hardcore br blue era fans happy. Could they have done all those things, yes but they decided not to. This pack is dlc for dlc for dlc and it's something that I do not recommend to buy because it's a rip off. They didn't want to do route extensions to avoid dlc for dlc but will do this which is just utter hypocrisy. Get Northern Trans Pennine instead. It's much cheaper and you'll actually feel like your driving in the br blue era. The idea is good but it's poorly executed and this is not what people wanted in terms of gwe dlc. They wanted a modern, extended and fully electrified version of the route with the 800s and 387s along with branch lines. Not this. This pack hasn't even satisfied some hardcore fans of the br blue era
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
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  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    As I’ve been possibly the main community salesman for this pack on these threads, as an antidote to that, potential customers may want to read my bug report in the technical reports section of the forum before purchasing, to get a rough idea of the quality of the pack from mine and others first play on it today on PS4. Suffice to say I will no longer be advising anyone to get it. I liked the idea but the execution may be somewhat lacking. The fact that the freight services weren’t ready should have been a red flag that the DLC wasn’t ready for release. It feels like it’s been made in scenario planner to save time rather than with the full tools. After being so positive about it up to now I can only say I’m more than a little disappointed with the quality so far.
     
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  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That's is not suprising that the quality isn't great. DTG have a "Release It Now, Fix it Later" policy which is pretty clear when freight services aren't included at launch
     
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  14. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Pros
    Scenario packs -yes
    A complete timetable -Im interested
    BR diesels - good
    Meh (acceptable)
    Long straight runs under contradicting scenery.
    A select few diesels featuring a certain unit that we’ve had our fill of.
    Cons
    52 re released with broken horn
    Freight not on release day
    Livery designer not applicable to routes outside of GWE. Even though those mk2s are from the NTP dlc. A degree of goodwill would have seen them cross compatible and not an exclusive feature of owning this pack.
     
  15. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    The DLC costs more than the average loco DLC. I don’t see it doing well. Is there any changes to the route itself that come with this pack? As far as I can tell, you only get 3 loco skins and a new timetable, which is great for maybe $10 but not $22.
     
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  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Nope. The scenery doesn't change and if you want extra trains that would run in this alternative timetable, I did the math so you can scroll see what extra dlcs you would need to get extra trains :) It's in american dollars though so your gonna have to convert that to your local currency if you don't live in the United States or a U.S territory
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
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  17. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    If its aimed at someone with GWE and maybe Eastcoastway , that dosent have anything BR then it might be good value. A 52,101 some coaches and a timetable. For someone looking to expand their BR options probably wait for a sale.
     
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  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Northern Trans Pennine seems though a much better value for your buck. Three br blue locos, a longer route and scenery that looks like the year it's set in compatible to this
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
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  19. 43050

    43050 Active Member

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    To be fair, owners of ECW have the 377 which is almost identical to the 375
     
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  20. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    Does this pack more or less render the WSR 52 DLC useless now? For only £3 more (from the perspective of a new player), you can get a 52 + 2 other trains that are livery designer compatible, which afaik, the WSR 52 does not have.
     
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  21. 43050

    43050 Active Member

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    Livery designer will eventually come out to the WSR 52. I suppose it really depends if you want the maroon Class 52 and the timetabled activities on the WSR
     
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Do you work as a bookkeeper for a Hollywood studio? They would be impressed at this exercise in claiming the highest possible costs conceivable.
     
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  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    They explained why- have you not been paying attention? The scenario team was left with some dead time between projects, and DTG set them to do something which would NOT require the route-builders or loco modelers. This was never going to be anything but a scenario pack using existing track and rolling stock.


    In other words, you want a whole new route. Fine- but expect to pay new route prices. Although, as I said before, the screaming will be heard from here to Brisbane if DTG does a second version of the GW before doing any of Britain's other major arteries.

    I don't think people understand- you can't just tweak a route and give it a quickie facelift. To do the GWML in the 1970s - or the 2020s - would mean effectively building it from scratch.
     
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  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    DTG can make a modern gwe route like many have requested on the forum. It seems like a no brainer to do considering the fact that gwe is still a popular route and we haven't gotten gwe licensed content in 4 years. You keep saying that many people would complain if a modern gwe route was made but I don't see that being the case. Sure maybe there will be a few but considering that there have been many posts asking for that, I think many players would be happy with a longer, fully electrified gwe route. Some parts of the current gwe route could be recycled as well to make it slightly easier. If a casual player would buy this unrealistic pack then it probably would be the case for a electrified and longer gwe route. If it's longer the price would be justified at $29.99
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Hey i did the math. It's pretty easy to add the numbers
     
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  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And equally easy to pick the most and the biggest numbers to add.
     
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  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    How about you do the math yourself. If you want to get the most out of the pack and don't own the requirements to get the maximum out of it it will cost $132.95. I used a calculator. Is the truth hurting you or something because your making it seem as if I made up the total cost. Is there a issue?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And to get the "full use" out of HMA one would have to own MSB, RRO, the 155 and the 182. Throwing in in layers as "required purchases" is the sort of thing IRS auditors don't like.......
     
  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say anything about those dlcs being required purchases. I said if they want to get the full use out of the pack and don't own gwe, that's how much it would cost. I even said how much it would cost also if you would just get gwe and this pack which is $52.98 (which is pretty pricy) if you actually read it
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
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  30. Pentacone

    Pentacone Member

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    DTG .... I Was Watching The Twitch Stream Earlier This Evening .... And Sam Was Doing a Great Job of Reading "Chat" Whilst Driving ..... :: ..... Then I Got An "Urge" To Check-Out The "STEAM" Broadcast ..... There Were NO "Moderators" ..... !!

    There Were 542 People Following ..... And Asking Questions ..... It Looked Like Sam Was Simply .... "Ignoring" Them .... !!!

    Regards,
    Joseph Peter Sheehan
    "PENTACONE"
     
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  31. KyleL

    KyleL Well-Known Member

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  32. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I bought one of those little plastic coffee pods that I thought was a bit overpriced to start with. It only goes and turns out that to get the most out of it you need to buy a special machine for £100 and some milk and a refrigerator to keep the milk in, another £200. An absolutely ridiculous amount of money for a cup of coffee. I’m surprised you didn’t add the price of a PS4 and a television to your list of requirements to use the Legends pack, for bigger headline number. It costs £14.99 and no more. You wouldn’t buy it if you didn’t have GWE and if you buy the other required DLC you get a bunch of other stuff with those (some routes and locos and a whole host of services), not just their use in this pack. It turns out I can keep sausages in the fridge too, so I’m less inclined to complain.
     
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  33. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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  34. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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  35. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Well-Known Member

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    My liveries that I've made for the stuff that's included in this pack are not showing up on AI trains
     
  36. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    Just got a Class 52 Desert Sand re-livery after 5 timetable runs so I think at least the 52s are ok.
    edit: It was seen after spawning on foot at Paddington so not 100% sure they are showing in timetable mode.
    Only problem with the 52s is that the cab side numbers are missing. I've made up texture blanks as a temporary measure but hopefully they'll sort that out quickly. I have reported it in the technical section.
    Not sure on the DMU as I've re-liveried to plain blue but not seen a set yet.

    My thanks go to the mods above. Excellent.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
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  37. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Why would i add the price of a console and a tv if everybody on the fourms presumbably has a console, pc and a tv and plays the game in some way shape and form.
     
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  38. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    You presume a lot.
    I haven't got a console. No need, i've got a decent PC and largish monitor.
     
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  39. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a Steam account, and this is what Steam asks me to buy Diesel Legends (Having only TSW2, no additional DLC). £ 16.20 / € 18.99 (new Timetable + 3 new locos)

    If I go to the Microsoft Store, where I already have all the contents of TSW and TSW2 (therefore also the Class 52, the 101 and the 08), for the same package he asks me for £ 15.20 / € 17.99 (just a new Timetable)

    If you have a new car and you need air conditioning, instead of buying air conditioning, buy a car identical to the one you already own with air conditioning. You are free to do so.
     
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  40. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    That’s not what he meant, he means a platform to play TSW on.
     
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  41. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    If you had read one word ahead you would've noticed that he mentioned PC.
     
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  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That's why I said people either have a console, a pc and a tv if you actually read it
     
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  43. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Some tend to misinterpret what I say at times
     
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  44. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    What's all this about refrigerators and air conditioned cars? Can't leave you guys for two minutes and you go off topic.;) I bought this pack because I have all the dlc to take full advantage of all the passenger and freight services that it adds to the game. That's why it's on offer and for that it's a very good deal. If you don't have the routes and locos already, it's a more difficult choice. I think we also have to remember that not all of us can afford to buy everything we would want. I'm sure there are some younger players and others who don't have a lot to spend on games, and they need to be selective. For myself, this is my first purchase in many months, there just hasn't been anything I've wanted. Upcoming, looks like a different story. Hold on to your wallets and save your pocket money.
     
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  45. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You were adding up all the things you needed to get the full use out of the DLC. You missed the biggest items. I was taking the concept of what people have been saying is the full price of everything that is required for the full use of the pack (forgetting that all that extra stuff also brings things outside the pack) and extending it further to include what you actually need, the device to play it on, in order to show that that argument isn’t really strong enough to criticise the pack.

    I was having a laugh, not at anyone in particular, or even anyone at all, but at the concept of adding the price of other things to an item to make it appear to cost more or be worth less. There are German routes where, to be able to drive everything that can be driven there, you require two more routes and two loco DLC. It’s just how things add up. It’s no different with this pack. You don’t have to buy those extra things though, you just get a little extra if you happen to own them. You do also need a computer or console though, that bit is true. It was never meant to be taken seriously :D
     
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  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    There was no need to include the console, pc or tv though as people on here would have a console, tv or a pc to play the game. Also I did the math for the gwe route and the 70s pack alone as well. GWE is $29.99 and the pack is $22.99. If you don't own gwe you have to pay $52.98.
     
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  47. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    What about the price of electricity, plug sockets, wiring your house, buying your house, legal costs and taxes etc and so on LOL :D

    On topic: this pack exposes the limitations of the architecture surrounding this game - the fact that as said above the same train is the same but different, the underlying items in the code seem to be redone for each different part and nothing carries over properly. Also the fact that the DLC has so many odd glitches upon release while modders have made several serious improvements to the time period of the route within 24 hours of its release without remaking the route from scratch.
     
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  48. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Modders seem to do a better job than dtg in some aspects and they have less resources than dtg which makes it even more impressive. It's like dtg can do what the modders do but don't choose to do it before release aka "Release it Now, Fix it Later" policy
     
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  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Um, no.

    The modders have done some nice things- but changing station signs and painting out the catenaries is not even close to recreating the GWML in the 70s. Just to start with, they would have to demolish Reading station and build the old one, reconfigure the platforms at Paddington and several other stations, repaint the Victorian ironwork at most small stations green (and rusty), add in much, much trackage which was removed by 2015, yank the entire signaling system and replace it with semaphore, take out the TWPS...

    I am not listing these things as in any way a diss of the modders, but rather to point out that if DTG were to issue their own, official GWR facelift, they would have to include every single one of those mods and more, or the screaming would be at the Inquisition dungeon level. Wibbles over blue/grey 101's are nothing by comparison.
     
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  50. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    Sorry. Senior moment :)
     
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