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Train Sim World 2 - Western Glory

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. hibiki

    hibiki Active Member

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    For me. The South is an area of little interest, but saying that, I do like to get the add ons. Also being middle aged, I prefer the BR era. So hearing about the add on for GWE peaked my interest. Not so much for the locos, but the DMUs. It is just a shame that little effort has been put into this DLC.

    The main worry I have is that DTG will just use the 101 for everything for 1st gen. Such as when TSW1 came out. The 101 which was supposed to be an 80s unit, had Regional Railways inteiors So it shows that the knowledge wasn't geared to the 80s. It was nice though to see that TVL has the proper moquette on them. But if they plan to do a 90s version up in Glasgow. You can bet there will be a Class 101 in Strathclyde colours.

    On the You Tube stream. It's alright saying that the DLC is not for everyone. But, when the website states in the about section, routes and locos to be authentic. This is clearly not the case. It is false advertising. To me it is like saying here is a Mercedes Benz car and giving a Ford Focus instead. That being said, I know we are having a pandemic so maybe that may have something to do with the lack of the new locos. Also I understand that the 101 maybe DTGs choice of unit, with them being withdrawn from service in 2003. The problem is that just showing a book on the stream and saying well they are in there, then that isn't really much good. I know at least 3 of the 101s with L prefix ended up in Manchester. L835 and L841 I photographed myself. So they didn't stay in London for too long.

    I don't know about other railways around the world, but I don't think the outcome would be any different if DTG did the same to their trains.

    Finally, I am not ranting, or moaning. I am just pointing something out. I just hope DTG actually does put a bit more effort into the DMUs and if DTG, or anybody else, needs a good reference for 1st Gen DMUs try this site: https://www.railcar.co.uk/ . The site has plenty of helpful information. Also lots of photographs too.
     
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  2. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    If you bought a car from a car manufacturer and then the next year they released an updated model- would you expect them to give you the updated model for free?

    If they can make the 101 work on the livery designer I’m sure it will be possible on the preserved 101’s too.
    Like you say it’s not guaranteed but I’m sure the 101 will be a candidate for the preserved crew when they get around to it.

    I’m looking forward to when they do as I’ve got a few liveries planned as I’m sure you do too.
     
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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes around 1994/95 L835/L840 and L841 they were transferred away to Manchester and apart from L835 stayed in NSE livery. L842 ended up at Laira then Penzance. They also ran as 3 car sets until 1993.

    I have that same book and it is a very good volume and source of information. However I don't think they are looking at the dates properly!
     
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  4. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of the "Western Glory" DLC. I haven't yet the BR Class 52 and it's an opportunity to get more traffic and variety on the routes (without using the Scenario Planner). Shunting with the Class 08 is always fun and you'll get more stuff for painting with the Livery Designer. So it's nearly the same as with the "Heavy Freight Pack" for NTP.
     
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  5. russianchip

    russianchip Active Member

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    Not for me this one, hopefully works out well!
     
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  6. Wilbnil

    Wilbnil Well-Known Member

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    Interesting pack experiment, but disappointing that no changes were made to the route. That would make this pack way more interesting and feel more realistic. I really like the concept of having one route in different eras, but without any changes to the route itself this pack falls short.
     
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  7. Driconian

    Driconian Member

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    Absolutely love BR stuff but with nothing new to enjoy or try it just feels pointless. Especially on just the base map.

    I suppose if someone doesn't have any BR stuff and they absolutely detest the idea of buying NTP or TVL for some reason they might enjoy it. I guess.
     
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  8. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    What do you think. Will NTP and TVL bring additional services to the new timetable. Something like freight transport or a replacement for the BR Class 52. That would be an immediate purchase without having to think about it too much.
     
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  9. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest


    This is exactly what I think .
    A little touch up or two on the road to make it older would be welcome.

    Without retouching the line I do not see the interest for me since I already have the 3 locomotives!

    Remove the catenaries and add oil to the rails like those of the tee valley or the trans pennine!
    In short, a little old and yes I will take the DLC.
     
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  10. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    At least with NTP and TVL the route is correct for the stock and quite frankly I would recommend those two routes over this as they offer a more realistic historic experience.
     
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  11. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they claim that this is marketed towards people who don’t have certain DLC, even though this one would incur the cost of both GWE & this pack, just to end up with a modern route, why would anyone interested in a 70’s UK DLC buy this one? It ends up more expensive and doesn’t even provide the experience of the era that it is ‘set’ in.

    I fail to see how this will sell better than NTP or TVL, but that’s just me, however I certainly wouldn’t recommend this as an ‘old BR blue DLC’.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  12. Driconian

    Driconian Member

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    For the same price (Guessing this will be £12.99) you can get NTP with the BR Heavy Freight pack and you get an era correct route three large BR Blues 40, 45 & 47 along with the 08 shunter as well as the 101 DMU.

    So 5 BR trains + Era correct route vrs 3 BR trains (excluding the HST as it is in GWR livery and style) + incorrect era route.
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The Heavy Freight pack brought us two new locomotives we had not had before, and set them in a period route.
     
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  14. Bradley

    Bradley Active Member

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    done this for free in scenario planner
     
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  15. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The biggest disappointment is all the things they could have worked on. How much development time and resources has this used up when it could’ve been utilised on other things?

    For an experiment, they’ve certainly took a big risk. Especially when it’s no surprise when they’re already stretched for resources.
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Apparently not a lot. :cool:
     
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  17. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    I see, similar but a bit different at the same time, externally there’s not many huge differences between the EMUs just some small differences, nice to know something new:)
     
  18. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I trend more towards the North American and German DLC than the British.

    However, the fact that this pack previews a potential modern CSX pack for Clinchfield in the future has me excited.

    While I always love new equipment, I also don’t mind paying for new services and scenarios. (If only I could pay for new horns!)
     
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  19. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I dont know how a modern CSX pack would work for CRR, unless we got something like a YN3B scheme for the C40-8W and YN3 paint for the Ac4400, SD40-2 and GP38-2. (Unless DTG gives us an actual new loco with it).
     
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  20. thomastl59374

    thomastl59374 Well-Known Member

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    I was looking forward to this DLC as I like driving old British locos. I appreciate its harder to make newer content under current circumstances but this DLC feels like a quick, simple addition for a DLC. In addition this DLC seems confusing as the locos are in the condition they would have been back when they ran along the line and not in a preserved condition as if it was on a rail tour (rail tour services on GWE like on SEHS would be nice) so in terms of immersion it's a bit confusing. I do agree that as I already own the 101 and 08 it can be frustrating that if I want to use them in service mode in GWE I need to purchase the pack just to get shumting services and the scenarios that I can't do in scenario planner. In future if DTG does this again it has to be like BR heavy freight were you don't have to go into a separate timetable but it adds services, running just 52s 101s and 08s on a modern route with no modern traffic around (Not 100% sure about this, thought I heard it mentioned on the last roadmap stream) doesn't really make sense.
     
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  21. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of the locomotives and rolling stock provided - I am interested in how the whole well the new schedule will work. I like the possibilities of completely changing the timetable with different population of locomotives. But my big take - if you are not interested don’t buy it. And from the stream yesterday - DTG does not have any expectation that all will be interested.
     
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  22. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    Which is a huge shame, and a massive missed opportunity. If a new Class 117 had been included instead of the 101, and perhaps a BR Blue HST (the model without the GWR on the side already exists for the unused First Great Western model), then I think there would have been a lot more excitement for this. It could have been slightly more than a loco pack, because it replaces the whole timetable, and while I can't say that it would be super commercially successful, I certainly don't think there would have been so much negativity about it.

    But, this is only a small subset of the TSW community. And the people who tune into the roadmap streams and hang around on the forums are most likely not representative of the 'typical' player.
     
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  23. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder if they will consider adding extra content to this as additional add-ons. Though, for a few reasons I think that may be unlikely.
     
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  24. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    If they made a class 117 as separate DLC for it I would definately purchase it.
     
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  25. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    You know, I'm not surprised by that ;)
     
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  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think you would be :)

    Anyway I will try and shut up about it now.
     
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  27. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Well according to the stream yesterday, there might be some locos that substitute in for services, which could make it more interesting again. Unfortunately we have to wait a bit for that to be confirmed and if so to what extent...
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It would be fine as just a timetable/scenario pack for existing rolling stock (everybody has SPG by default), as long as that is what it is billed as.
     
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  29. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    As people have asked for scenario packs and timetable options, this seems to include those along with the locomotives, livery and rolling stock changes this could be something that turns out great, definitely will need to watch a stream of DTG showcasing this pack and for the right price ($12-$20) depending on what it includes could actually not be such a bad thing. As it’s the first of its kind, I would expect DTG to listen to constructive feedback and implement it in a similar pack in the future.
     
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  30. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I don't get the complaints about the route being too modern, TS Classic did exact same thing many times, like Jupiter on Donner Pass, or WCML Over Shap for example. If there's interesting motive power that served on the line then I'm fine with it. With how often TSW routes are made they're not gonna make a period correct route for everything, and so you're gonna be extremely limited in what stock you can add if you just stick to that.

    Now something I completely agree with is that the choice of the 101's not good, I was hoping for a new DMU of some sort. As someone that already has NTP and heavy freight the only thing here of any interest for me is the 52, and for me that on its own isn't enough.

    I also tend to agree that I don't understand why you'd go for it over the 80's routes. Yes if you don't want NTP or TVL then sure I guess it's decent enough, but I have to imagine that most interested in 80's content already have one of them at least. And even if you don't both are gonna be way cheaper, you can get Tees for 14 dollars on sale, NTP's around 10, not to mention both have other options for 80's add on content. I don't think that compare that favorably to what will presumably be a 20 dollar loco add on.
     
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  31. djcwey

    djcwey Well-Known Member

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    As you say all the facts are there!

    Image presented shows a Class 101 with DMBS 53311 leading. 50311 didn't become 53311 until April 1983. Refurbished and repainted into Blue/Grey livery with release from Derby Works taking place 22/02/1980.

    For the majority of the 1970s 50311 was allocated to Tyseley with transfer to Reading taking place 07/06/87.

    Sam did say DTG were recruiting?
     
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  32. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I would be happy to do DMU research for free.
     
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  33. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    After reading the article I clicked the discussion link because I wanted to see if this is a free giveaway or something.
    I think I'm not the target audience for this DLC
     
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  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Me neither so it seems
     
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  35. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Which is 1) surely alright, as said before, one does not need to own everything, and 2) unfortunate, considering there is not that much missing from this pack to cater to more people... Just one new vehicle...
     
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  36. djcwey

    djcwey Well-Known Member

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    As some contributors have mentioned the "Vintage Railtour" theme has been implemented and received reasonably well on ECW and SEHS.

    A better proposition than half heartedly pretending it's the 1970s whilst all the infrastructure is 2015 would be to have it themed such as an "Inter-City Diesel Day".

    On Sunday May 21st 1989 Hertfordshire Railtours organised 9 rare freight locos, 3 big rakes of stock and 6 return trips from St Pancras to Leicester. The locos involved were 20145 paired with 20228, 33021 paired with 33022, 37058, 37066, 47347, 56017 and 58050.

    In place of "Western Glory" you could potentially(!) have various services operated by Class 20, 31, 37/5, 40, 45, 47 (BR Blue), 47 (British Railways Green), 52 (Maroon), 52 (Blue) and 08 on shunt release. In addition as it is not a pretence that it is the 1970s normal services with the Class 166 and Class 43 could be operating their Sunday (reduced level) service. Of course this is purely hypothetical as DTG would probably encounter issues with the dreaded layers.

    As more DLCs of BR diesels are made available at a later date they could be added to the mix?
     
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  37. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with this, it is in no way necessary to buy every DLC, I haven't. This personally isn't a DLC for me, however if there had been something completely new such as the Class 117, or something similar to the Western Hydraulics Pack in TS2021 (one of my favourite loco packs for that game) then I would have been much more interested. It seems like DTG could have easily gotten more people interested in this DLC.
     
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  38. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This really should be part of something like a free Steam Workshop item or something similar, not a paid DLC.
     
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  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes of course it is alright I have never said or intimated that someone needs to own everything, in fact I have made that exact argument many, many times.

    However, it is a marketed as a 1970's BR diesel legends pack for the Western Region. My main area of interest is the BR steam and diesel period, especially the 1970's, something which doesn't come along very often in the train simulator world. However the pack is inaccurate as it doesn't really do what it is marketed to do. It is on a unsteady footing at the beginning considering the route has had a lot of changes since the 1970's but I can overlook that. The stock is not accurate for reasons I have oft stated over the last two days and won't bore everyone with again.

    If the sim was awash with 1970's routes and stock, I wouldn't be bothered particularly, but something like this does not come along very often, I think NTP and TVL were a fluke and look at the dearth of such routes in TS1! Therefore, it would have been nice if it was made as realistic as possible within the constraints of the route. If not a new DMU the class 101 could at least be supplied in the form it ran in the time the pack is supposed to be set.

    If the pack is aimed at a casual gamer who does not care for realism and wants to have some vague idea of what the GWML might have been like in the 1970's with a disparate set of stock then market it as such!

    Class 52 - agreed, legend of the Western region
    Class 08 - hardly a legend of the Western region, was seen in every yard and works from the north of Scotland to Penzance
    Class 101 - again not a legend of the Western region, was in every area of the UK except the Southern region. In the 1970's the Western Region only had a handful of units and none of them operating out of Reading. If the Western Region or the Paddington area had a DMU which was associated with it and could have been called a legend, not a moniker DMU's have ever been given, then it is the class 117, or maybe the class 118 if you are in the west country!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  40. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should be dtg's train historian lol. You know how to do research more properly then they do
     
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  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well adam knows how to say innacurate info
     
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  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile, the Intercity 125 really was a diesel legend of the Western Region- could be claimed without much exaggeration to have been The Train That Saved British Rail, and while it was deployed in many places, the GWML was where it could really show off its paces.
     
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  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes I would have liked to see the HST in original form, they started their working life on Brunels billiard table so would be fitting and are indeed iconic. The HST, class 08, class 52 and with a suitable DMU this pack really could have been a winner in my eyes.
     
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  44. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the idea that not every DLC needs to appeal to all people, and I am one who despite already owning all the British content, is still interested in purchasing this pack. The gameplay opportunities and new 52 are the draw for me.

    However, I must concede that when hardcore enthusiasts of the region and period are uninterested or and the very least having doubts on whether to purchase the pack, then it is very clear that something has gone wrong in the making of this DLC. It is those people who should be guaranteed purchases for such content.

    To me it would be like sticking a 143 in Manchester or a 320 on the GEML, although close enough to make the uninitiated not care, to me, it would be thoroughly disappointing, I sympathise with those who feel the same about this pack.

    I just hope that whatever happens DTG are not dissuaded from producing similar packs in the future, the idea of running existing routes in alternate eras is a fantastic one but if they do not get the details right it can and will put people off.

    It does make me wonder if DTG needs to rethink the way content is packaged in these add-ons.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  45. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think the problem is dtg haven't gotten around to adding timetable services for those routes. The one thing that baffles me about ska is that dtg claim they do research on the routes then make. That would mean they should've or did know the the DB S-Bahn Koln DB BR 423 runs on SKA yet they added the 422 which is not accurate whatsoever. If it takes a long time to make routes then surely they would've had time to make the S-Bahn Koln 423 but didn't choose to do so. They should've added the correct train from the start and that is inexcusable when they say tsw2 is a game that has "Authentically Replicated Routes and Locos". That would be false advertising. If dtg did proper research on this pack, they would have known that 101s were three car sets, not two, had br blue livery and were rare on this route meaning they hardly ran on this route in this time period. The trains that were more frequent were the 117s and the 121s. Hell if they are gonna add the 101 which was rare on this route during the era, then maybe they should add the db br 101 to ska since inter city services on that route is extremely rare. Maybe some people on this forum should be doing dtg's research on things like these since dtg don't know how to do proper research. I like the overall idea of having a route that has a modern day timetable and an old era timetable but they need to have the correct trains for both eras and if you are picking the old era (in this case the 70s) it has to feel like your driving in the 1970s. The environment has to feel like the 70s, not 2015 because that basically kills immersion. You had some people generally excited about this concept only to be disappointed afterwards and rightly so. This pack seems to just be adding railtour services for a modern day route. Now for causal players who may not care or may not have done research and may be interested, then it'll probably do well for those players. For others, not so much. I do find the overall concept quite baffling because there have been many requests for dtg to make gwr a modern day route with the class 800s and 387s and yet they decide to make a failed representation of how the route would be 35-40 years ago with this pack. We haven't had any gwr licensed content when gwe came out 4 years ago and I think it would have been better if they had made a more modern day version of this route with the 800s and 387s because it probably would have been more accurate. Now I'm not a fan of historic routes/locos but I do want dtg to do well but this pack feels lazy in my opinion and hell I'd go far to say a cash grab. They took a slight step forward and several steps back and the overall feedback on the forums at least is not positive making me feel like this "experiment " failed before it even started. I don't know how well it will do sales wise but hopefully dtg will learn from all this feedback, do better research and not make this mistake again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  46. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree with that, I don't want to dissuade DTG from exploring this option in the future. The point for me is, they could have attracted the hardcore enthusiast like me and the casual gamer with the same pack which surely is a win-win situation for us and them?

    I wasn't expecting a complete 70's like experience, I knew full well that running a Western into Paddington under the catenary was going to require some effort to suspend reality, but as I have experienced on TS1, when you have populated a route set post privatisation with stock in it's 70's and 80's condition it can work! But in TS1 I have the stock to be able to make very realistic scenarios, there isn't such luxury with TSW so you are stuck with what DTG have provided.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would recommend a casual player buy NTP and the heavy freight pack and not this. It gives a much better representation of the era of the route and even though I'm not a fan of the br blue era, it's a lovely route to drive especially with the class 47/4
     
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  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes the NTP is a lovely route, it can be fun to drive with the gradients and in the class 101 trying to keep to time on the stopping services.
     
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The 101 is a challenging train to drive on ntp. When I drive the 45 on ntp for some reason the looks of the train remind me of a pig
     
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  50. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I find the main problem for me with TSW at the moment to be the variety of content and a pack like this should have been the perfect opportunity to really diversify the BR era content for the game and with it, add a bunch of great content for the scenario planner and livery editor.
     
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