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Train Sim World 2 - Western Glory

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I must admit I was very impressed with the modeling and especially the sound of the Class 52, both inside and out. It seems different to the WSR version. There was a lot happening during gameplay with plenty of AI which also looked and sounded very good. With all the added services and the promise of a free freight upgrade in the near term, I'm persuaded and will definitely buy this pack next week. I'm not terribly knowledgeable about British rail history, so my focus is on the driving experience and I found myself forgetting things like the catenary and other 21st century artifacts. Also I think there is something of a disconnect on the forum as far as pricing goes. To me, $23 represents good value for what we're getting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  2. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Aside from all the feedback being given over the new pack, I really hope that DTG doesn't see this and give up on the idea of extra gameplay packs. I honestly think there's some great potential to be had there, it's just that the execution wasn't as great as it could have been. I would love to see them take another shot at it, and perhaps include some special gameplay....something like managing trackside maintenance, or trying to beat a speed record, or perhaps running a service with special liveries for a ceremony. There's a lot of avenues they can tackle this from, I just hope they don't do it once and give up with it.
     
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  3. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    You are probably right. I will not buy it, but I see the point in trying this. If you are a casual player and game play is more important than realism, this may be interesting. Do not forget thta the active forum members do not reliably represent the total player base. About 15% of the players did not even complete the first tutorial or drive the first mile. I think about 10-15% of the PC player base is playing the game more or less seriously. So we can talk a lot about realisim, but why bother if you just like it? I have never seen any of these trains in real life. So I do not care if thy have driven a specific route, but I like the historic atmosphere of trains. For that purpose this may not have been the best choice, but who am I to judge It is an experiment I we should not deny DTG the right to target other types of players as well. The more players, the more they can afford to invest in the core game.
     
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  4. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    At last !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . The 'lazy' post. Where is the 'no immersion' post?

    Don't like it = don't buy it. No need to name call those who see value/potential/enjoyment from the pack.

     
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  5. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    I've just caught up on the stream - and to be honest - I can't wait for this.

    Yes - there are inaccuracies, yes its old locos in a modern setting - I accept all that.

    but - for me,

    I love the idea of having these 200+ extra services.
    I love the fact its a whole timetable of BR Blue services
    I love the Loco changeover gameplay operation - I wondered how this was to be implemented

    I could see me spending a whole bunch of time doing the light loco moves between Old Oak and Paddington.

    I'm pretty certain I am going to be buying this (probably at the end of the month on pay day) and it will give me many hours happiness.
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    $22.99 is a total ripoff for what is effectively a reskin of 3 trains
     
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  7. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    True but it's clear they got their research wrong which is unfortunate
     
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  8. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    The decider for me will still be raildriver support. If it’s in, I’m definitely getting it, if not, then I probably won’t. I don’t see it as a reskin of 3 loco’s, I have them anyway, I just want to play extra scenarios and services.with my Raildriver.

    As for the price, it’s less than a couple of Big Mac meals where I live and I’ll certainly enjoy it for longer.
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what you said. Even though they got their research clearly wrong with the 101 (but I guess won't admit that upfront after watching the entire stream) the whole idea is a good one. The problem is that it was poorly executed. The 101 hardly ran on the route in reality and is in the wrong color. The class 45 apparently ran once or twice in reality in that route during that era so that's another realism breaker. The scenery looks nothing like the 70s which might be a real immersion killer to some. I get that they couldn't add the 117s because there team was busy doing other projects but maybe if they took their time to add the proper trains, the response on the forums at least would have been a bit more positive. Maybe that's why some have called this pack rushed because they didn't want to do those things for understandable reasons but had they announced the pack at a later time so the people who make the trains could've made the correct train that ran on the route instead of recycling the same train with the wrong color, it probably would've gotten a more positive reception. It's not like they would add a Class 313 to sehs or a 465 to East Coastway. DTG would get more than an earful that's for sure.

    If the pack does not sell well or doesn't have the best reviews I don't want dtg thinking that the modern timetable and old timetable concept is a bad idea. Hell I like playing ntp even though I am not a fan of old trains and when they hinted at the idea of a modern ntp route, that would be great for people like me who enjoy modern content. It's just the fact that this idea was poorly executed. They didn't do proper research, the environment doesn't look like the 70s, and it's basically recycled trains used on a different route. In my opinion this pack isn't worth $22 for what is effectively a reskin to 3 trains especially if you own those trains before and i suspect some who may be interested will wait for a sale if they own those trains. Is the concept a good idea, yes. Was it poorly executed, yes. This pack is clearly geared towards a more casual player who may not own a br blue train. But in my opinion a casual player who may not own a br blue era route should just buy NTP. That route has way more value for the money and the environment looks like the year it's set in. Plus the route is longer so you would get a lot of enjoyment out of it. After what I've seen, I wouldn't recommend this to a casual player who doesn't own ntp or wsr. Now if you are interested regardless of the clear inaccuracies, then I say go for it but I personally don't think it's worth a penny
     
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  10. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    This is a great addition for those who have GWE and love old trains.
    This pack is very good, the class52 is perfect and apparently it does not have much to do with that of the WSR.

    I already have the 3 locos but the GWE is one of my favorite line so yes I think I'll buy this pack but I will wait for the sales for that, if DTG gives a discount to those who already have the 3 locos.

    If I hadn't had the loco then yes I would have bought it on the day of the release at a high price.
    Personally I love the Class 101, it's one of my favorite driving loco, being able to paint it soon is awesome.

    In short, I think people are old enough to know what to do, no need to say it's good or not, everyone will have their idea.

    Oh yes, I'm not looking for realism at all costs, what matters to me is having fun.
    For realism there is real life for that and it is already boring enough not to want to do it in a game.
     
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  11. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well if you can point me to the parallel universe where I can rattle down the GWML in the 1970's in a class 117 please do?!

    I think the pack is very good value if you don't have the trains or even if you just want to drive old trains on the GWML, there is undoubtedly plenty of gameplay with the pack.

    However, we are all different, some of us are quite serious enthusiasts and whilst of course we all use the sim for fun, I am one of those people who want to experience what has gone before, to recreate historic periods, to suspend reality and immerse myself in a bygone age of railways. Just because you don't, which is fine, don't assume everyone else feels the same.

    I experience the realism of the modern railway every weekday and quite frankly it isn't that interesting to me!
     
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  12. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    So, sorry if this has been asked, but will AWS be enabled on this version of GWR? I'm assuming no based on NTP.
     
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  13. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 Member

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    Hi,
    From the stream last night (Fri), the AWS was functioning.
    Mike.
     
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  14. 43050

    43050 Active Member

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    Exactly that! I doubt DTG would do a version of the PAD -RDG route in every era to please everyone, and there would be total uproar if they spent all their time creating a 50s version for Castles and Manors, 70s version for classes 52s and 47s, 80 version for class 50s and Blue/grey HSTs, etc
     
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  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    AWS is there as the route isn’t altered at all, just the trains that run in the new timetable. I think they all have AWS installed and that AWS was present on the line in the 1970s, so it will be appropriate to run with it on.
     
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  16. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I don't think the price is justified considering there are no new locos at all . If even one new loco was included along with reskins of others and a new timetable, then maybe the price would be justified.
     
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  17. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Nice- i prefer to have it on. It's saved me more than once from drowsiness lol.
     
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  18. eire007

    eire007 Active Member

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    Truth hurt.
     
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  19. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Let's remain civil, thanks.

    Cheers
     
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  20. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Let's remain on topic and keep the chat civil, Thank you.
     
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  21. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Having slept on it I’ve decided to also not pick this one up as I have all the locos involved. I took the 101 from Reading to Paddington yesterday as well to see if it’s something I’d like a proper timetable for and hmmm it was a fun drive but having the ability to occasionally create my own service is probably enough for me
     
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  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Quite, there is enough angst when they repeat a route available in TS1!

    If they did produce a 50's, 70's and 80's version I am certainly one of the few who would purchase all three. This pack isn't a bad compromise in my opinion, not ideal but watching the stream you could easily forget the modern infrastructure, it is just the execution of it which narks. I would have happily paid £20 if it did include a new class 117 and I am sure the casual gamers would have still purchased it!
     
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  23. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Tbh, I'd also probably be interested in purchasing all the different eras of lines, especially for those I have some personal connection with such as NTP, I've travelled the route a few times, and Vic is really where I cut my teeth spotting in the last year or so, so being able to experience that through the ages would be very much worth the price of admission for me personally.
     
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  24. ShaneS89

    ShaneS89 Active Member

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    I was on the fence about getting this until I heard the price, £14.99 is just too much for this really. I understand that creating a timetable is a time consuming task but I just can’t justify that much money on a timetable and 5 scenarios, £11.99 maybe but not £14.99.

    I do think one of the biggest problems with this pack is how it was marketed, this should have been put on the roadmap as a gameplay pack or scenario pack from the start. This is listed as a loco add on which it really isn’t, it’s a scenario pack and if it was listed as such would probably have kept expectations in check. I really like this idea and hopefully DTG will learn from this and try again.

    On a slightly unrelated note, DTG need to release info and articles on upcoming release’s a little earlier, most people found out what locos were in this pack from the steam achievements. This isn’t the best, because everyone starts speculating on the forums and DTG can’t acknowledge anything because it’s not technically common knowledge yet. Releasing an article before the build goes on steam (it’s only a week or so earlier) would probably help.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  25. phillip.good

    phillip.good Active Member

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    Wow, such an eloquent comment.

    Please feel free to leave the forum to the adults
     
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  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree they should release a article or announce what trains are coming a bit eariler because it doesn't make sense that people are finding out via the steam page. This clearly was a gameplay pack and not loco dlcs because it's just recycled dlc so the way it was marketed would make some assume that new trains would probably come but never happened so hopefully they will learn if they do make something similar to market it better
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  27. ghall59

    ghall59 Active Member

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    The elephant in the room for me is the signalling on GWE, has the AWS or flashing yellows etc. been addressed yet as I don't recall seeing anything about it? May hold off a bit on this one.
     
  28. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Sounds great, can I come?

    Not for me, I loved it. The late 70's - early 90's I travelled all over England & Wales (a few times to Scotland) twice a week in my late teens/twenties. I loved the old slam door trains, I was on the HST twice a week along with other trains I can't remember, wish I knew theorganist then, this was due to my work. I was a professional football supporter, lol.

    Other than the odd train strike I didn't have many complaints. People saying Paddington was Grimey? Don't remember that, I remember it clean & tidy and then they started to do it up. The big 'Paddington Bear' in it's glass case and the pub there, mind you I wasn't sober much so might of missed something. But I do remember the smell from the brakes of the HST, I can still smell it now and haven't been on a train for years due to disability. Brilliant memories though.

    Regarding the Diesel Legend pack of the 70's to some of us the thought of this pack was exciting, I'm only into the British packs and as the content was sort of my era I was sold until I learnt what was in it. No 117, I travelled on one of these to Paddington from Didcot Parkway (cause I missed the HST) and even though it took light years to get there to me it was iconic. Also used to get it to Oxford.

    If the pack just had the 177 and the route made to look like the 70's I would of happily paid the same price for it even a touch more. But as it stands? No thanks. I can't even see it being beneficial to new players as you have to purchase several other packs and some of them contain the trains you are purchasing no? Personally to me this pack is a missed opportunity but saying that if this pack appeared in a sale and it had RailDriver support then I could be tempted.
     
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  29. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Well from the comments here so far this add on appears as thou it might be a bit hit or dead on arrival.
     
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  30. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I don't like the pack but I expect it to at least make money, I don't expect it to be a smash hit by any means but I highly doubt it will flat out bomb.
     
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  31. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    This pack would’ve have been better off being a railtour dlc that included BR blue versions of the class 52, 47, 33 and possibly a new loco (like a class 50 for example). That way they could just add the services into the current timetable and then charg significantly less for it. Honestly this whole thing with trying to make a GWE 1970s pack without modifying the route alt all combined with a high price is just crazy to me. That’s just my opinion however.
     
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  32. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I’m not looking forward to is if they haven’t changed the way the gears and reverser are mapped on the controller for the Class 101, as it is a nightmare to drive properly using the immersion controls. It is a bodge job of combining two separate controls, both levers, onto multiple sequential presses of buttons, with the gears in the wrong order. They should have taken the reverser off the up and down keys and kept the gears controls as they were in classic. That way you can easily go from 4th gear to neutral as you are stopping, like you are required to do IRL to not break the gearbox. Neutral was moved to below 1st gear in the new mapping and requires three button presses to get to from 4th. One click too many and you then change the reverser to off, because it is on same button. All of this as you are trying to achieve a rising brake pipe with the same hand, to stop without tipping your passengers over.

    I noticed they have also done this with the master key and reverser on the class 395. Two controls on one set of buttons. It doesn’t make sense. There’s no way of telling what you are doing with it. This makes me go all old school and change them manually in the cab, which is what they should have us do with the reverser in the Class 101.
     
  33. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Well after watching the stream they clearly state no locos are included. So basically you need to own GWE, NTP and TVL routes, then the class 52 and BR Freight loco packs.
    I would love add more gameplay to GWE, since I've driven it to death. But I don't own the 52 which I need to buy the TVL to download. I have the other 3.
    But in Canada each route DLC is $39.99 and locos are $26.99. So I would need to pay $67.00 in order for me to be able to by this pack which is going to be $32.99. So $100.00 for just a new timetable?

    And if someone who has bought just TSW2 and none of the preserved collection, would need to buy $174.00 in DLC just to have this pack work and again $32.99 for the pack too. So over $200.00 for one pack to work properly?

    Who is this marketed for? It's not realistic enough for the die hard fans and bloody expensive for new people to the game. Sam keeps saying you don't have to buy everything and this one was for people who didn't want to download the extras in a past roadmap. So he seems to have been very misinformed on what this pack is exactly.

    Oh and the fact that it is not complete on release either. Freight will be added later makes me question why not wait to release?

    Shame just when things start looking up with the incredible 465 DLC, this seems to put a downer on their rep again.

    I get what they are doing I just feel they marketed it very wrong. I love the idea and hope they try it again, but actually be accurate in what they tell us about the pack.
     
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  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes the old everything in the 70's and 80's was dull and colourless, I remember Paddington in the 80's and it certainly wasn't dreary. I can't remember the 70's as I was born in the middle of it but they say the same about the 80's too, I remember a colour decade of bright summers and cold bright winters, cars were colourful, trains were getting more colourful with sectorisation, plus infinitely more varied and interesting.

    Look a photo from a 1980's carpark and compare it with now and then tell me the 80's was a dull and dreary decade and now is some kind of colour utopia full of individualism as that isn't what I see.
     
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  35. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    On the contrary, the price is justified for those who do not have these locomotives!
    The guy who only has the base game will not have any of the 3 locomotives, maybe we should stop believing that everyone is buying everything ....

    Now if you already have them then don't buy or wait for the sales.
     
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  36. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it will be dead on arrival. As Sam said on streams, if you have all the trains and you are into authenticity then it’s maybe not for you.

    I suspect a lot of people here are not the people it’s aimed at. A lot of forum members want everything to be 100% accurate and that’s fine.

    However there are a lot of casual players that if it looks like a train and it sounds like a train will be happy.

    Then there are people like me that play the game a lot, have all the DLC, but want more gameplay and are happy to ignore the fact that the scenery is the wrong era. I can use my imagination. Plus hopefully the trains have added raildriver support.

    I doubt it will be DTG’s biggest hit, but personally I’m glad for the multi timetable support. With Raildriver support, I’ll buy it soon, without, I can wait for a sale.
     
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  37. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You’ve clearly misunderstood something. The pack comes with the Class 52, Class 101, and Class 08, plus passenger coaches. You do not need to have previously owned or currently own any of these. They are included. Part of the issue people are having is that they are being asked to buy them again even if they do own them. But you do not need to own them for this pack to work, they come included in it.

    The other trains that add to the timetable in the same way as with other routes (extra layers and substitutions) are the Class 45, Class 47 and Class 31, plus freight wagons from the Heavy Freight pack for freight services. These are not included and have to be owned separately. The pack will work without them, except freight services.
     
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    With this add-on I would have accepted 50%!
     
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  39. paulgregs

    paulgregs Active Member

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    The more I think about it the more I think that if I were a smoker (I'm not) then this isn't much more than a pack of fags....

    Justification mentality of the highest order....
     
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  40. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't be a release if there wasn't some kind of feature coming soon™:

    Bakerloo - Timetable improvements were supposed to come (then were shelved)
    LGV - Crocodile (radio silence on this after four months)
    SEHS - Two patches to fix all the bugs that shouldn't have made it to release. (at least this one was delivered)

    And now this doesn't have a full timetable on release (although apparently the full timetable is ready according to Matt on the stream, but no clue why it isn't in release...)
     
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  41. Driconian

    Driconian Member

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    I am steadily becoming concerned with the amount of its arriving later content. Now I get that TSW is a big game and I love the idea of things been retroactively added and improving even the very first routes but some of the recent promises have felt very much like the promises you sometimes see for games selling in Alpha and Beta.
     
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  42. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    A base TSW2 player also needs GWR, so when you factor that in it's certainly gonna be more than either NTP or TVL, so I don't see it being a good option for them. Granted you could get TSW2020 and get that route and many others for very cheap, but you also get the NTP route as well, so you're already covered for BR Blue if you go that route. Really the GWR pack is only worth it if you specifically want GWR in the BR Blue era, and/or you actively don't want the other routes, most new players aren't typically gonna be that picky.
     
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  43. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    There are other options to get for sure, but that’s the great thing with having a choice. A new player not having any older BR stuff may well not buy this first, unless they also fancy what comes with GWE as standard. If they really like BR era things they will most likely plan to get it all eventually, this pack included. It gives a different place to drive the trains that also come with other packs. One train can give many different experiences depending on where it is driven. There are now three choices of which route to drive the Class 101 on first. It comes with three packs now. A lot of players will end up with all of them because of the differences the routes give them. Just like with the German content, if you buy it all it intertwines and mingles across many routes. It’s a good thing that players can drive the NTP locos on a flat route with a full timetable if they so choose. They will need to buy a lot of stuff eventually to get it all, but isn’t that what happens to people with a passion for something? Or they could just buy one route and play that, and it doesn’t even have to be this one. It’s a choice.
     
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  44. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    DTG have a release it now, fix it later policy hence why no freight isn't included. $100 canadian dollars does sound expensive even for the casual player if they don't own gwe.
     
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  45. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting to feel that way a bit. They say things making the game feel like it's in beta at times especially with past dlcs
     
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  46. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I do agree with a lot of that, especially with regards to the German content. It appears though, at least, that the German loco's and units seem to be used realistically to the routes they are supplied with.

    There are 32 other classes of first generation DMU, are we going to see the class 101 used every time DTG need one, regardless of whether it is correct or not?!

    As a first generation DMU fan and someone who actually loves the class 101 DMU, I don't particularly want to see this lack of imagination continued going forth.

    I know this pack isn't supposed to be realistic, well we have been told that now, "legends of the Great Western" is the phrase which I have scored into my brain, but why not go for some realism. The 52 looks great in blue, the pack had excellent sounds overall which makes it more of a shame. They could have turned the class 47 into one of the named Western region examples and unblanked the headcode box, yes a bit more work involved but maybe for that extra bit of realism it might be worth it. The 101 could at least have been painted in a more representative livery for a suburban DMU in the 1970's, not one of the five or so sets which happened to be painted in blue and grey as they were part of the Western Regions cross country fleet. The WSR mark 1's in blue/grey would too have added an extra layer of realism as they would have been very prominent on the route in that time. Loco hauled trains in the 70's were not often uniform, even if BR intended them to be so.

    They have oft stated the phrase "we don't want to add layers to routes of trains which didn't run there" or something along those lines, so what has happened to that? Is this a simulator experience intended to convey realism or just a sim masquerading as a game as and when DTG see fit?
     
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  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I wondered what happened to that statement as well. Is dtg trying to simulate or make routes with the right trains, or are dtg gonna break realism for the sake of getting a quick buck or two when a chance opens up for them? Hopefully breaking realism with dmu's won't happen again
     
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  48. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this break away from realism is going to become a norm for DTG. I just think that DTG knew GWE hasn't been touched in years with no updates or DLC, and they thought the least they could do was create a new timetable using locos that already exist in TSW.
     
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well this dlc isn't even gwr licensed content which we haven't had in 4 years. I would have personally and probably some preferred a branch line for gwe or a route extension instead of this realism breaking product. Maybe a gwr class 165 would be cool with a branch line. I am curious as to why we haven't gotten any gwr licensed content. Does dtg still have a license with Great Western Railway?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  50. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    A class 165 would make sense as the use of wholly class 166's isn't realistic either, especially as there are not enough units to provide all the services. I am surprised a class 800 hasn't been made either.
     
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