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Train Sim World Studio Update – Your Questions Answered

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The part which states DTG wish to control all of the intellectual property of the game. If they create a public Editor then people can create content for TSW which DTG do not control, this would go against their stated intention of controlling all the IP for the game. For example, let's say someone creates a new physics module for the game, they release it as freeware, people will then want this physics module for DTG addons, DTG will need to pay a license to use the physics module and will have to negotiate terms with the third party. As things stand currently, DTG hold all the cards, so they can say to third party developers that they can create DLC for TSW so long as they sell it through DTG and DTG can use it as they wish in their own addons. The Editor would go against DTG's intention of holding all the cards.

    This was the exact policy which FSW third party developers claimed DTG were using to try and control the market. We now have a statement from DTG which seems to confirm this is the case.

    It's not possible to remove content from a game people have already purchased. So I don't see anyway for DTG to this without legal issues. The Editor has been part of Railworks from the very start, so to remove it was never a viable proposition.
     
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  2. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I hoping that there will still be a editor for TSW we need third party development in the game. This in turn would give us longer routes we are all so desperately wanting in TSW. Along with the longer routes there can be more to do making it worth the cost. But if DTG decides that they are not going to release the editor, then we will continue to get short routes with nothing to show for it.
     
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  3. AlexNL

    AlexNL Well-Known Member

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    If they wanted to, they could've made it work. For example, they could have restricted access to the TS1 editor by requiring a separate Steam DLC, which was given to all existing owners (like they did with the pump cart).

    This way existing users would've kept their editor and thus would lose nothing of value, while the editor would be unavailable to new players until they'd sign an agreement with DTG regarding distribution.
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This is total tosh...
    DTG own the IP for TSx. They own the IP for TSW. FSx was owned by Microsoft and sold "under license".

    Even if other people produce content, if they market it as TSx or TSW compatible they should be paying a license to DTG for using that brand. DTG said as much a few weeks ago but they waive this right so as to allow the community to do what they do. DTG COULD enforce the same on companies that don't sell through their official channels but don't.

    So rather than calling DTG out, to me it works the other way round, that by not enforcing their legal right and allowing others to use the TSx brand (and hopefully the TSW brand in time) without charging licensing fees it means we have the content we do so far (on TSx at least) which means thousands of DLC available from hundreds of developers (pro, semi-pro and amateur) across dozens of websites.

    Hopefully there will be means of doing this for TSW and I understand the frustration, but your comment misses the mark for me
     
  5. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Why were they forcing third party developers for Flight Sim World through DTG's own distribution channels? Is that not an indication of how they see their commercial relationships going forward?

    There's no way they could roll back on TS2020, imagine the fallout if they did. But as TSW is all new and there's no comparable competitor, they can pursue the policy they wanted to with FSW. We're seeing it playing out that way, with third parties limited to only working on tightly controlled products with DTG. And where's the Editor? Surely even the most ardent supporter of DTG must now be questioning if it is ever actually coming?

    Everything points towards a policy of tightly controlling TSW IP and development; The behaviour with FSW developers, the absence of the Editor or information pertaining to it and the latest Annual Statement supports this.
     
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  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    What does that have to do with IP rights?

    Only if they can see the benefits of it (more content, diverse content, differing scenarios where green isn't the only color you see) outweighing the detriments (more broken content, needing to sign up to multiple providers who might all make the same thing, requirements no longer being available even for payware scenarios)
    Not everyone sees the editor as a panacea, but again, nothing to do with IP except that DTG have proven (and stated) that they won't enforce IP for third party devs. Even the "replace your loco" "patch" hasn't been stamped upon even though it could be

    Yes, I can see the point of "clamping down on devs", but DTG is a company, not a charity, and companies are there to make money from sales of product, not to bring happiness and joy to everyone.
    The absence of an editor just means there isn't an editor, but you don't seem to be able to accept that this is all it means, so be it.
     
  7. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Active Member

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    Pretty sure when the editor does release, this thread will all seem like a gasleak :)
     
  8. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    If.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  9. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    I'm torn on the subject.

    On the one hand it's strange at best that an editor isn't available by now, assuming they do intend to bring one out. It must have extemely low priority, because there's no way it would take this long just to make it user friendly enough for the general public (compared to for internal use), if they had even one developer working on it all this time.

    It's also interesting how formerly third party developers are now directly involved in the development of several first party products. (reducing the demand for an editor?) Looking at the video game industry in general, developers (at least major ones) seem to be shifting away from supporting mods, so in that regard it wouldn't be entirely unexpected for Dovetail to do the same, even if the simulation genre is a bit of an odd case.

    What's making me believe, though, is the fact that they have insisted that it is coming. Call me naive, but what do they have to gain by doing so, and even doing a stream about it, if it weren't the case? A handful of buyers that only buys at the promise of a future editor and aren't interested in the game as is? (which doesn't make much sense) Sure, they could've changed their mind since. That's the only "explanation" I can think of.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  10. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why some people see the editor as such a minor feature. It's a bit like with conveyor belts, blast furnaces, lathes and CNC machines: Almost nobody puts that in their home, but if they hadn't been invented, everyone's home would look much different. If they even existed to begin with.
     
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  11. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    Yeah we cant even do own consist, set them where we want. It's terrible.
    Dovetail now decide everything.
     
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  12. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    Matt says the editor is still in pipeline. But not a time frame for it. But definitively not closed down.
    Matt I really trust. First thing I heard in a 6 month from Dovetail about this.
    1,5 year already. Wonder when they are done with it.....
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
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  13. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    See? Was that so hard? All that was demanded was a simple yes or no. Now I'm happy! :)

    But as a tip for the next time, if you announce something as "coming soon", and then it doesn't, just say something. "We've run into some issues, it will take longer. To be honest, it could be much longer." Nobody who's right in their mind will rip your head off for that. After all, the alternative is getting an editor that doesn't work.

    But anyway. So glad to get a word of confirmation again finally.
     
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