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Train Simulator 2021 And Beyond

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wivenswold, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Active Member

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    I hope so as well, but things like single-core support will keep it back, unless DTG updates it.
     
  2. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

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    I hope the lull in UK content ends soon and that previously available routes tied in with licences are re-released in generic or BR branding. Look at that UK Railway Journeys pack. Had it contained updated versions, no matter how minor, would have been a massive sales success. This year's annual update will hopefully be a good one. If they chuck the Fife Route in for the UK route, I will wonder whether they're deliberately sabotaging sales or looking for a buyer for the platform.
     
  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think a new UK route is needed, I don't know why we have this sudden slow down. Even in TSW there hasn't been a UK route since the end of last year and route being shipped with TSW2 is quite niche, and are we likely to see another route as DLC for TSW2 by end of the year. It is not inconceivable that this year could see the just the Bakerloo for TSW2 and the Fife Circle (which to me doesn't seem up to the standards of their more recent TS1 routes) for TS1 as the only UK routes released this year.
     
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  4. omisan

    omisan New Member

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    I miss Dutch routes, and why are there actually no Dutch routes in TS 2020, we in the Netherlands really have a few kilometers of rails,
    So please make some dutch routes
     
  5. benhhng

    benhhng Member

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    Yes, the Dutch train with yellow blue livery is so sharp.
     
  6. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    DTG is unlikely to make any Dutch trains as they are already available for this Game
    https://christrains.com/

    And if you register on this site the are real and fictitious routes to Download
    https://simtogether.com/

    Screenshot_Krammerdijks Deltaland v1.1_0.00937-0.02307_12-13-10.jpg
    Screenshot_Krammerdijks Deltaland v1.1_0.05838--0.13654_09-27-01.jpg
    Screenshot_Krammerdijks Deltaland v1.1_0.08936--0.14056_18-27-29.jpg

    Peter
     
  7. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Just looked at some of those. A lot of them use freeware I've never heard of. And am not in the mood to install at this time since I already have a ton to do from Steam without adding that. Even the Just Trains items I've picked up are on hold until I do some other things first, but I'm holding out hoping for a better cable connection to eventually become an option so I can do a proper stream as well.
     
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  8. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I was not suggesting you install anything as I was replying to the post by omisan
    And there are no Freeware trains in those Pictures
    NS Emus from Chris trains
    Eurostar Class 374 is a Reskin of the DB BR407 from DTG
    And the Class 77 is from DTG/RSC and is quite old

    Peter
     
  9. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Same here..... I actually have thirty-six routes (some of them are merges) that I haven't completed a single career (or any) service on....... I am about half-way through the alphabet listing of my routes..... LOL.....!. And I think I have about a hundred bits of rolling stock to try out (again, about half-way through my list)........ ;-)

    I would still buy the Class 89 right now if they completed it though. Maybe in 2021. Or maybe wait until beyond that..... We'll see.
     
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  10. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I am quite amazed that YOU think DTG will revisit the Class 89 - it won't happen.
    It will cost time and money to make any changes at no return to DTG
    The rest of us who want the Class 89 have it and the Livery and Sound Mods

    There was a chap reporting a Speed restriction on the GEML which is not posted and you end up speeding
    It has been like that since release - 7 Years Ago.
    Where in the Queue is the Class 89 by that standard?
     
  11. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    What can I say. I am an eternal optimist. "Eternal" being the operative and key necessary feature. As we know, it would only take them an hour or so to complete the loco.

    Anyway - if you are right..... and the Class 89 has now been sold to everyone else that wants it, then I would go for a compromise. If they drop the price to £2.99, then I would be happy to send them my cash - even with the Class 89 in its current incomplete state.

    Alternatively, I am happy to wait until 2021, 2022, 2023... whenever DTG thinks is best for them to provide a reasonable product or a reasonable price.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  12. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Would it only take an hour?
    If they have not changed a simple error in a route which would only take 10 mins to place a Speed Board in SEVEN Years for them to make changes to a loco which at the moment is not working and with no sounds to record is expecting a miracle

    And if you think that they have sold the Class 89 to everyone who wants it is also wrong.
    There are people stating this game and are still buying stuff from many years back.
     
  13. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Guilty. And while there's no way to know, 70,000+ bundles WERE sold on Humble. Many of them surely just started. Though Discord giveaways soon after showed that many just bought the bundles for routes they needed and gave away the others.
     
  14. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Ah - so you are saying that everyone other than me that wants the Class 89 already has it....

    Ah - so now you are saying that everyone other than me that wants the Class 89 doesn't already have it....

    Looks like you've got all the bases covered.....! I love doing that....! >>>>

    -----------------
    I think that Liverpool will win the Premiership again in 2021, and I think that they won't win the Premiership in 2021. I am looking forward to Boris being re-elected Prime Minister again, but I can't stand the possibility that Boris will get elected again as Prime Minister. I won't be having any cheese or any toast for dinner, because I will be having cheese and toast for dinner instead.
     
  15. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    It took the community about two hours to get a better fix sorted.... and presumably they would not have known what was wrong with it when it was released.

    So yes - I think it would have only taken an hour more to complete the loco. And that it would only take an hour to fix it now. I am not asking for a perfect fix for the Class 89, using perfectly authentic sounds.... because they don't exist yet. But something close... something as good as the fix that other people are using...and put together in two hours.

    But it's okay. DTG can leave the Class 89 partially completed if they want, and I will pick it up at some point in the next ten years, when it drops down to £2.99. But if they complete the loco any earlier, then I will buy it at full price - because frankly.... it's gorgeous-looking.....

    I have to admit that I was tempted to buy the loco purely on the basis of extremely good looks - but I have been burned by that before. There is nothing worse than going for sheer beauty, only to find that your new love has serious communication and commitment issues.
     
  16. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You must work in Politics as you like taking people statements and trying to twist them round for your own benefit.
     
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  17. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Funnily enough - I have worked in politics for a large number of years..... Most of the time, Peter, I find you to be incredibly helpful and well-meaning. You are always one of the first to try to help, and given your extensive knowledge, your advice is often bang on.

    I am paying you a compliment.

    Sometimes I get the impression that you do just want to be contrary. What puzzled me was that you said one thing: "The rest of us who want the Class 89 have it and the Livery and Sound Mods", and then when I adopted that view of yours, you then contradicted it (your own previous view) with "And if you think that they have sold the Class 89 to everyone who wants it is also wrong.".

    In politics that is called a U-Turn..... But it is fairly rare to see such a turn-around in just 31 minutes..... You might have set a record.

    Look, despite this slightly odd, but nevertheless quite charming "contrary stuff", and despite the incessant promotions that you do for Vulcan Productions and Armstrong Powerhouse (almost as if you work for one or both of them....).... on balance.... I am extremely appreciative of all the help that you have given to me. So.......... Thank You.

    For avoidance of doubt - I am paying you a compliment. For free. ;-)
     
  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Politicians are also very patronising!

    Vulcan Production products are free! As long as you obviously have the base item they apply to, obviously.
     
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  19. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Funny that.... It's a bit like the free workshop scenarios that seem to have been specifically made to sell re-skins. And I don't have a problem with this - it's a free country. The best thing with those scenarios is that they are clearly marked, so that you can ignore them.

    But I do find it slightly uncanny that a working solution for the sounds on the Class 89 was found almost instantly after it was released. It was almost as if the third party guys knew that the loco would be released with broken sound.... ready to be fixed with a bit of Payware that requires some more money-cash-money-cash-money to pay for it.

    I just want people to be upfront, If DTG have made the Class 89 model to sell the model, and excluded decent sounds because they have an informal agreement with a third party to supply the sounds, so that a completed loco raises more cash than the marked-up price..... then why not just say it? They could simply market the Class 89 as a body-shell (a wonderful one), minus the sounds, and make it clear where you need to go and how much more you need to pay to complete the loco.

    Actually - why bother including the pantograph. Or the buffers...? Or the windows? Maybe they could sell future locos as parts included with a monthly subscription magazine at just £5.99 per month for 24 months....? Just an idea....!
     
  20. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't have it yet as it is quite far down the list of purchases, however I assume it has sounds that sound like an Electric locomotive. Nowhere on the description does it state that the sounds are from a class 89, which would be tricky as the class 89 hasn't ran for over a decade from what I can gather. I think DTG have used sounds in their library, the 86 I think.

    The sounds in the sound pack are taken from the class 90 and 91 which are AP sounds but DTG would presumably have to pay to use them, whereas the creators of the sound pack just direct the class 89 to use those sounds from what I can gather.l

    Obviously it means owning those sounds too.

    I personally use very few add-ons with their original sounds both steam or diesel or electric and not just restricted to DTG published add-ons.

    People like AP and SSS have more time to manufacture a realistic sound sets, they are far smaller operations without the deadlines to which I imagine that DTG operate. If you are waiting for more realistic sounds from DTG you are going to be waiting for a long time, probably forever. Their sounds have improved a lot in recent years, you should have been around in the early days or Rail Simulator.

    I see it as a rich fruit cake, DTG make the cake and AP/SSS create the icing and marzipan.

    Personally it doesn't bother me, I am happy to pay extra for a more realistic experience.
     
  21. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Having spent a bit of time looking at how the community works together, it seems perfectly logical that DTG would release the 89 without perfect audio, knowing that the community would pick up the tab via AP aliased sounds or something similar.

    That seems pretty reasonable to me, considering how open TS is at this point.

    Take the AC4400 by Searchlight - $34.99. Class 156 by AP - £24.99.
    Class 89 by DTG - £11.99.

    Price wise it's probably about right, 3d modelling work, texture work, loco profiling and set up within TS all included, pro audio and extra liveries missing.
     
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  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Thanks - I think this is quite helpful. The Class 89 model is utterly beautiful. But I just can't buy into this as a priority yet... not while I have dozens of routes and a hundred bits of rolling stock to try first. I would buy it right now if it was completed.... but in its current state, DTG will have to wait until I am prepared to give them very much less money for it. It is DTG that it is doing the waiting here... not me. They are waiting for less money.

    As an aside - I don't like the use of the word "community" in the context of AP and third-party paid for providers. They are part of the "market-place" or "vendor-scape"...... not the "community". They provide a paid for service to "the community" which a lot of people like, and that's good for them. But they are not part of the community, volunteering their time out of the kindness of their hearts to spread the joy..... in the same way that Exxon isn't part of my community, even if some people buy their petrol (gas).
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
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  23. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    DTG can wait a bit longer to get my money - that's not a problem for me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
  24. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Whether AP are 3rd party vendors or not, they are part of the Train Simulator community. There are one or two notable individuals that take time to post here that are also vendors, that make valuable contributions to the community.

    We are part of a large community of like minded individuals.

    The 89's pricing is spot on really for what it is - a part built ready to run model.
     
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  25. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this, although I doubt DTG would describe it as part built.
     
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  26. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but that's what it is and that's what some seasoned community members see it as.

    TS is so modular, I'm highly surprised that it's Lego-like framework hasn't been milked for all its worth. Its taken 3rd party providers to capitalise on this.

    Why hasn't the marketing team at DTG jumped on this? Strange times.
     
  27. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes that's true. I have to say without the likes of AP and SSS the sim would be poorer and I wouldn't be using it nearly as much or purchasing as much from DTG.
     
  28. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I've literally purchased DTG stock just for the AP enhancement packs.
     
  29. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes - I understand that. They are part of the community that takes cash from other parts of the community. There is nothing wrong with that.... by the way.... It costs time and money to drive to a heritage railway, take photos, record sounds.... render 3D models.... etc.

    But when these efforts become work and the results are sold for profit (or even cost recovery), then it becomes a "paid for service" - not a contribution or a donation.... it becomes a transaction with £€A$H at the heart of it. Consequently, a number of things kick-in, such as "customer-client relationship" and ideas such as "community voluntary projects" go out of the window.....

    As soon as money becomes part of the equation, then everything changes. It's great to admire the products made by these vendors for their customers..... but they should not be given any more credit/status than that you would give to any other trader or service-provider.... even if they really like trains. ;-)
     
  30. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I think the vendors operate across shades of grey, rather than black and white, and I do believe that vendors also make contributions that are not purely profit driven.

    I agree with most of your sentiments. And DTGs sense of self is very misaligned. But it is what it is. TS probably bled money for DTG, wheras TSW likely saved the company from dire straits.

    So, coming in at the 11th hour, and seeing it all with a fresh pair of eyes, the potential of TS can be seen quite clearly. Perhaps it was never marketed correctly, it's a sort of pioneer in terms of rail simulation I suppose. It should be out to replace 00 modelling, instead, the company focus seems to be on delivering a sim-lite product for the future generations.

    I could ramble forever, but I won't :)
     
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  31. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Agreed - and beautifully brought back onto topic... ;-)

    I don't get the impression that there is any real strategy at DTG. I suspect that they were pushed into TSW.... and pushed into cross-platform... and then seen the sales.... and presumably they have data on where the TSW sales are coming from (all around the globe) .... and I bet they got a massive surprise on just how many different types of people will try out a train simulator........!

    However, TSW is still built around the idea that the only people that want to use it are sitting at a desk, on a PC. And that the users are all self-starters that come pre-loaded with industry knowledge and/or IT expertise.... and are natural problem solvers.... so there is no need to build a decent UI.... or provide manuals.... or check that the introductory scenarios work..... Just like with TS1...... Why bother to make these titles easy to use and learn....?

    And with TS1.... if the UI is critically broken, and many people can't start the software because the memory management is as flaky as a flaky Cadbury's Flake made in Flakeville, West Flakia.... then you know what... that doesn't matter..... because TS1 customers are a resilient bunch of folks that can put up with all of that... and they'll still buy DLC even if TS1 hasn't worked properly for three months.... because they are also hopelessly optimistic.....

    If DTG put both TS1 and TSW into any sort of decent shape, and made them both accessible to the average person.... then they'd rake in the cash.....
     
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  32. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Buckets of cash. Overflowing coffers.

    I think TSW is an attempt at making train simulation genuinely accessible.

    For me, what it did was make me aware of TS and just how good train simulation can be as a hobby. I've stopped buying Bachman models, they seem a bit ridiculous compared to a full simulation of a HST belting along the mainline.

    So, using my journey as a case study, if TS had been marketed more effectively, I probably would've been on the bandwagon 5 years ago.

    TS is the Hornby model railway of our time.

    Its time to make it totally accessible, sweep up those wood shavings, polish the brass and make some serious strides forward. With TS that is. TSW is a great sim-lite and good introduction to train simming.
     
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  33. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep... that's exactly how I see it - and your journey is almost identical to mine. TS1 from TSW.... (although I haven't yet strayed from Steam for TS1 products... or been that bothered to make mine an enhanced TS1.....). I came close to getting TS1 in 2015... but didn't jump in... because I didn't like Steam... But it was TSW that was the gateway drug, and I needed Steam for some other simulators.....

    And after I got into TSW, I remember saying to myself: "Do I really want to put down another £100 on TSW, and £200 on TS1....?" and I looked at my £1000s worth of models and thought.... oh wow... I haven't touched them for two years...... and £300 barely gets you a couple of decent N gauge locos...... and £200 on TS1 got me a large chunk of the Southern Region and dozens of trains... including 415s (and they are freakingly expensive in N gauge..... if/when you ever see them...). And I have spent the best part of £500 per night in some hotels..... So it became a no-brainer.... (although I sometimes wonder if it was a no-brainer because I clearly have no brain....... ;-) ).
     
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  34. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Or, to quote DTG:
    The problem is that some are not even authentic reproductions. So they are therefore lying right in the manual for some of them. Otherwise, I would say this is a reasonable statement.
     
  35. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Is there anything of DTG's that I can run to get a feeling of what the Class 89 sounds like? So - does it really just sound like the Class 86? Because if it does.... and I can cope with that, then I might buy the Class 89 after all. I don't require perfection. Life isn't perfect.

    But if the real objective of producing the Class 89 was to make it sound as terrible as possible, and really just to help AP to sell three other locos..... then I am not interested. That would be a complete farce.
     
  36. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    You could always test it for half an hour and then request a Steam refund if not satisfied.
     
  37. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I could - but I don't like doing that. I have never asked for a refund for any software, ever. In fact, I can't remember refunding anything at all.... not for about 25 years.... when a pair of Cat boots fell apart the day after I bought them....

    But I do like to buy with some confidence. So I do read reviews. And I don't know - with TS1 you never really know who anyone is, and who/what they represent. For example - is it possible that the negative reviews on Steam for the Class 89 are just marketing for AP....?
     

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