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Ts 2020 Eula And Enhancements

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by treid09, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    I recently saw a enhancement pack from a reputable third-party developer that adds new sounds to a type of locomotive in TS 2020. It also adds new features that weren't on the loco before such as a distance counter, and it changes the physics of the engine as well. My question is whether or not this is legal and would be okay to purchase for my locomotive. I ask because the TS 2020 EULA (yes, I read it) says that one can't "unpack" and modify the script of a product, which, if I am not mistaken, this enhancement pack does. I really don't want anything illegal on my sim. I don't want to mention the developer unless necessary, and I would love to hear from anyone knowledgeable, especially Dovetail staff. Thank you and God bless. [ I am also posting this thread on General Discussion since I couldn't decide which section it would fit best.]
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  2. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    If, as you say they are reputable, why not name them?
     
  3. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Given it's an enhancement pack and you need to own the original before applying the enhancement there isn't an issue
    A simple reskin would be illegal if it were not the case

    What they cant' do is provide you the original as part of their enhancement without giving due payment or having arrangement with the original author or copyright holder

    In other words you should be fine and it certainly WON'T affect your use of the program on a legal basis.
    One thing to note, given enhancement packs change the core base unit in the game, if that core base came from steam and the unit gets updated you need to reapply the enhancement
    Same is true for file verification
     
  4. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    Thanks, ARuscoe. So to be sure I understand, if I verify my TS files, the enhancement has to be reapplied? The company is Searchlight Simulations by the way.
     
  5. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    The company is Searchlight Simulations. I didn't name them just in case it was not legal.
     
  6. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Not used them but others have without issues AFAIK. If any 3rd party devs were being illicit then they would be out of business pretty quickly in this community.
    If you are unsure about a 3rd party site you could always ask here and there is a 3rd party Repository thread on this forum.
     
  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Verify checks the files you have against the steam versions of the files (ie what they think you should have) so any files "which have been corrupted" get replaced back to what they think you should have
    In reality this means enhancement packs and so on get overwritten
     
  8. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    Got it. Thanks a lot!
     
  9. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    You're right, I haven't though about that. Thanks!
     
  10. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Hi treid09,

    Technically, you're correct, reverse engineering any part of a product that we've made is not only a violation of the EULA but also various International Copyright Laws. However, the vast majority of third-party developers prefer to make their own scripts and such, which essentially transforms the content to operate differently than delivered. From our point of view, there is no breach here as these developers are simply exercising their right to creative expression and this, we feel, enriches the hobby as a whole.

    We would only be concerned if these developers chose to distribute any part of the content that they know would be considered our intellectual property. We've yet to see a case where this has happened (and we do actively monitor this stuff). But, generally, most developers do come and ask permission where they feel it's necessary.

    In any case, the legal responsibility is on the individual(s) who are selling the content and not on the individual(s) who has purchased.

    Hope this helps put your mind at ease.

    Best, Steve
     
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  11. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    Hi TrainSim-Steve,

    Thanks for answering my question, and yes, what you said does put my mind at ease. I appreciate your taking time to answer my question. If I am not being a bother, I have one more question. Its not about enhancements, but railroad and railcar licensing. For freeware addons, like a tank car that uses a real-world company's logo, does it need to be licensed by that company? If not, what about payware addons? I had recently bought an unofficial loco from one of Dovetail's third-party programmers, and I don't think he obtained a license from the railroad (Norfolk Southern in this case). Is it okay to buy those addons that are not licensed? Again, sorry for all of the questions, but Dovetail has done such a great job with TS and I don't want to install anything not legal.

    Thanks for your help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  12. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    so question for those who apply the enhancements has it broke your game?
     
  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    As with the previous answer, the onus is on the provider not to break the copyright law, so you buying it isn't the issue. If you then provide it to others you might have some issues, but it's up to the seller not to use copyright material or Intellectual property

    And no, no third party content has "broken my game"
     
  14. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    I haven't installed any enhancements yet, but I wanted to check before I did. I can say though, that if I do, I don't expect myself or anyone else to have problems with Searchlight Simulation's enhancements, as they are really good at what they do. I can't speak for anybody else though. This is my first dive into the world of third-party stuff.
     
  15. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    Thanks, ARuscoe, makes sense that it wouldn't be my responsibility unless I distribute it (which I have no desire to do).
     
  16. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Have been using multiple mods from multiple vendors for several years, never had a problem. Not saying others haven’t, but as with any software endeavor, make sure you can back out any changes in case things don’t go as planned.
     
  17. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Hi treid09,

    As ARuscoe rightly said above, when representing or reproducing the brands (logo, livery/paint scheme, wording, etc) of other organisations, it is the sole responsibility of the creator of that content to have sought appropriate permission to represent that brand and use of it to benefit a commercial product - what we call a licence (this is actually a legal agreement between the creator and the owner of the brand providing specific permission to reproduce their brand according to their guidelines).

    For freeware products, the same rule applies but as the creator is not benefiting commercially, this is largely considered by many organisations as a "Fan Creation" and the legalities are usually ignored except under specific circumstances - such as the creator has recreated a brand in an effort to bring disrepute to the owner or to advertise negatively toward the owner.

    Again, the rule is still that the responsibility is on the creator and not on the customer, providing the customer is purchasing in good faith and not with the intent to bring disrepute to the original owner of the brand.

    Best, Steve.
     
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  18. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    Thank you TrainSim-Steve,that makes more sense now. I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions so thoroughly. Have a good day and God bless.
     
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  19. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    My pleasure treid09 :)

    Best, Steve
     
  20. treid09

    treid09 Active Member

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    Hi TrainSim-Steve,

    I just wanted to thank you for help when I started this thread. I did purchase two of the enhancement packs today that I had been looking at and I am really enjoying them! Your advice, along with the others who replied, definitely helped put my mind at ease. Dovetail will continue to have my business.

    Sincerely,
    treid09
     
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