1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Ts18: The Dawn Of A New Era

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. TrainSim-James

    TrainSim-James Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2016
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    595
    [​IMG]

    As perhaps the single biggest feature request for Train Simulator since it came to market all those years ago, we’re excited to announce that Train Simulator 2019 will include Train Simulator 64-bit.

    READ MORE
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 16
  2. Manchester-Victoria

    Manchester-Victoria New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    13
    64 bit.....yippie but will TS20xx be able to use the extra memory that 64 bit implies??????? please say yes
     
  3. GibbseyNZ

    GibbseyNZ New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    11
    This is fantastic! I am currently working on a route with a friend and have been running into the 32bit limit more and more as the route assets are placed. The worst of the problem is during terrain painting. Seem to get less than 10 mouse clicks with the painting tool and the editor gobbles up the 3.2GB and crashes. Hopefully that will be resolved and it will speed up work dramatically.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  4. iAspex

    iAspex Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    142
    I'm not the best with PC's, but my laptop says it has 8GB of ram, does this mean TS can use up to 8GB instead of around 3? Screenshot_29.png
     
  5. TrainSim-Luke

    TrainSim-Luke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    812
    At the moment TS18 can only use half of your ram.
    TS19 in 64-bit will have no hard limit on ram usage, so it'll be able to use as much as you can give it if necessary.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
  6. nigeldarl2

    nigeldarl2 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can i ask if you already have ts2018 with windows 10 64bit would this mean a automatic upgrade to the new 64bit version or staying as a 32bit version?
     
  7. AyrtonS8

    AyrtonS8 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    218
    Great to hear about TS going 64-bit.

    Do we have to buy TS2019 to get TS into 64-bit or will the 64-bit be part of a upgrade?
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. GT46PAC

    GT46PAC Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2018
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    194
    Finally :cool:
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  9. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    430
    I'm just as excited as I'm a bit nervous. But I hope this means I can finally take a crack at the building tools without worrying about crashes and memory dumps/leaks. Many great projects have been abandoned or put on hold indefinitely because of the issues and limitations.

    This sim, definitely needed this. So much content that will keep this thing going for years to come. Very good news!
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  10. Lord Bickerstaff

    Lord Bickerstaff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2018
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    54
    excellent news, this will smooth out my content creation :)
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
  11. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    281
    Wow. I wasn’t expecting this and I’ll guess I’m not alone. Exceptional news. I did briefly check it wasn’t April 1st..

    My immediate thoughts

    1. Where does this place TSW which I thought was the target 64 bit platform? Two products, two different engines with TSW of course having console support. How do DTG stop the products competing against themselves?
    2. Given all of the possible permutations of DLC, scenarios and hardware my mind boggles at how this upgrade gets tested adequately. I would have guessed that there will be some cases where somethings ‘get left behind’. Personally I’d consider that trade off for the upgrade more than worthwhile.
    3. The request for user feedback probably ties to my point 2. Potentially DTG may get a LOT of feedback at least initially and one wonders how they are going to manage this without getting people frustrated that their issues aren’t being addressed immediately.
    4. This upgrade is presumably huge and will lead to some ‘noise’ and issues early in the releases. It would be kind of nice if as users we could be patient and understanding in return for this significant upgrade.
    5. Without giving away trade secrets it would be great if DTG could open the hood on how they are achieving this. There’s a pretty knowledgeable user community who might have less concerns (or understanding about any resulting issues) if they knew how this worked.
    6. Presumably the third party developers are on board and included on the changes.

    Anyway, unexpected but very good news!
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 4
  12. GWR5029

    GWR5029 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    48
    This is lovely to hear. For so many years people have wanted it. I look forward to seeing what routes come as always, and hope that once again we will see a steam route. Of course British steam would be lovely, but so would something Australian, Japanese, certainly Swiss, or any other would be well appreciated.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  13. DukeDudeston

    DukeDudeston New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    3
    Well all I can say about this fantastic news is JustTrains better get a wiggle on with their Penzance add-on!
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  14. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    356
    The best news today for Train Simulator 20xx and really looking forward to it, now you can include more AI to be realistic, but also be realistic that this is still the same game engine, so rendering of more different trains still can lead to FPS drops.
    Just a few quick questions that pop in mind of other things.

    1) Is TS2019 still going to use the Flash Menu?
    Hopefully it is also changed:
    * It is slow to load with more and more DLC installed
    * The profile menu doesn't include 3rd party add-ons
    * Sorting is broken since TS2016, you can't sort on name after you selected a route, it always sorts on locomotive which does not display a nice list, but sometimes when just one scenario is available for that loco on that selected route, it displays a blue bar with locomotive name and then the scenario.
    * Flash is unsupported in 2020, which means you can't upgrade to a newer OS, since flash won't install anymore on those systems.
    * Blue has been the default since TS2016, the gray look of TS2015 was better, so if possible some sort of themes.

    2) Heared in several streams from Dovetail Games and at Matt Peddlesden about that it DTG needed the source code for the game, but when it took over from Kuju, the agreement didn't include the source code.
    So a 64-bit version couldn't have been made.

    Has this changed in the last year (since I logically think that this has been in development for a while before it was announced) of is it because people are mostly staying on TS20xx since that is where all their content is.

    Also if you did have the source code for all those years, but claimed you didn't, why did you practically lied to your customers then (strictly speaking) and you could have made it 64-bit years ago.
    64-bit (we use x86-64 in the Consumer Processors) has been available before even Rail Simulator came out in 2007 and was common when Railworks came out in 2009.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
  15. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Now this is something I did not expect. Heck, I really kinda expected this to specifically not happen, like ever. This will frankly be huge for a lot of reasons, and will give people a lot more freedom as to what DLC they tick for their scenarios. And it’ll be nice to not have to worry at all about the typical tricks like reduing scenery quality on demanding scenarios, or restarting the game completely after a demanding scenario, just to avoid crashes.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  16. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    356
    Don't forget that in the article that is stated that it is still the same game engine, just without the memory limit.
    It still can have frame drops if there is too much placed on one tile of a route, since the engine can't cope with it (but not due to memory anymore).
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  17. GT46PAC

    GT46PAC Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2018
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    194
    Something is better than nothing!!
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
  18. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    281
    Rob Jansen with the existing (effectively) single threading of the engine still in place then becoming the new principal limitation on the game - which DTG acknowledge by saying what won’t change? But presumably some clever developers might find some way of moving some activity onto other cores and now won’t bump into the memory limitation on the other side. I do wonder if the added memory opens up some other opportunities. For example in FSX there are third party weather packages that override the base game functionality.

    So, with 64 bit solved, the ideal hardware solution (with these new fancy GPU cards on the horizon) is still going to be the fastest CPU with a bias towards optimized single threading?
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  19. DANNYBOY2487

    DANNYBOY2487 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    75
    yes i'm waiting for that Extension so i can complete my scenario and with the 64 bit i be able to play it on higher graphics
     
  20. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    356
    Yes indeed, that is what I said. I am very happy with it, currently the most limiting factor is the memory.

    TS20xx actually uses 2 threads, so it is multi-core aware and uses it, but no more then 2.
    Graphics memory is also still limiting (but maybe that is also removed), it isn't using more then 2gb of graphics memory.
    So you can have the best most current CPU and GPU, the game won't use all of the capacity anyway.

    Did some tests to see what is the maximum of memory for the GPU, mostly around 1.5gb if it is a heavy scenario.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
  21. rwaday

    rwaday Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    46
     
  22. rwaday

    rwaday Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    46
    Excellent! Sign me up. Still some life in the old girl. A lot of us have good processors and graphic cards wit plenty of memory. Now we will be able to use that memory effectively. I see this as a salvation for DTG with the current state of participation in TSW. I am curious as to the price point and availability date of the 64 bit version.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  23. MartinRM54

    MartinRM54 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very good news. long routes with AI ! Thank you DTG. Is there an expected release date?
     
  24. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    310
    I am happy to see Train Simulator going to 64-bit I am looking forward to it.
     
  25. thegevo5k

    thegevo5k Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    25
    "A new era" is the name of an article, not the game. Many different game companies use that.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
    • Downvote Downvote x 1
  26. GT46PAC

    GT46PAC Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2018
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    194
    Could you explain this a little more.
    Thanks
     
  27. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    218
    Will the 64 bit version come with the automatic upgrade to current TS18 owners, or will we have to buy TS19 to get the upgrade?
     
  28. NJT Railfan

    NJT Railfan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    153
    Yay! No more temp dumps with a decent amount of RAM!
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  29. NJT Railfan

    NJT Railfan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    153
    Probably mid September as always.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  30. NJT Railfan

    NJT Railfan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    153
    We also need menu music! TS 2014 was the best.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  31. A Wilkinson

    A Wilkinson New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    9
    Excellent New DTG, is there any date when it will be released? thanks
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  32. Michal

    Michal New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Will be also removed a node limit while exporting models?
     
  33. iAspex

    iAspex Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    142
    Will this mean that there's going to be shorter loading times now? I'm sick of waiting 5 minutes for a game to load up. (Usually 2 - 3 on shorter routes, but still that's ridiculous)
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  34. NJT Railfan

    NJT Railfan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    153
    Most likely, TSW is more detailed and even has loading screens under a minute!
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  35. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    356
    Open up Task Manager with at least Windows 10 v1709 on a second monitor (of if you only have one, run Train Simulator in a Window).
    Then on the details tab add a new column called: "Assigned GPU-Memory", this is the dedicated memory that Train Simulator uses of the GPU.

    Load up the game (Railworks.exe), you will see it hovers around ~430mb when in the main menu.
    Start some easy scenario on AI or freeroam, check the memory again.
    Then reload the game (not just go to the main menu and select a new scenario), this is because Train Simulator is very bad of a memory hog. It doesn't release all the memory for a clean state. So to force a clean state, you will need to exit the game and start again.

    Then load another scenario which is heavier with more Trains on a large station. You will notice that the memory usage of the GPU is slightly higher.
    It also depends on you're graphics settings, how higher, it will use more, but in my test it wouldn't go any higher then 1.5/2gb.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  36. SimonM719

    SimonM719 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    23
    This is good news, now we need the graphics upgraded to DX11/12 ;)
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
  37. spsimon285

    spsimon285 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    I wish they would do that too.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  38. Nikubus

    Nikubus New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    :o
    great news!
     
  39. pennsy_railfan

    pennsy_railfan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    23
    Great news but does this mean I'll have to buy a new version of train simulator?
     
  40. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    356
    The core update (with 64-bit) is free as stated on the article. The new content you need to buy. The price is almost always (here it is in euro's) €30,-, same as one route and you get a bundle of 3 (of 2 if you already have one).
     
  41. Course carriage

    Course carriage Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    31
    Revolution - what a crazy message. And it's nothing to come out of a whistle blower, respect!
     
  42. VION

    VION Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    16
    Yesssss !!!! This very good news has the effect like a bomb explosion in a glass water. And always said it was impossible ?! who had said this ?
    Thank you DTG and all the great research and hard work made by the Dev's.
    Have good dreams now.

    Cheers
    gerard
     
  43. VION

    VION Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    16
    Hi Rob,
    I wished to know how do you do to add a new column because by me I haven't any option either by right mouse button click or on the main task manager menu to perform such new column. I have W10 Pro 64 and my version is 1803 build 17134.191
    Any suggestion will be much appreciated.

    Cheers
    Gerard
     
  44. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    356
    In Task Manager, go to the details tab and then on the headers of the column (such as name, PID, status, Processor) right click on there and the select 'Add Columns' and in that list the GPU is listed.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  45. Emil Benz

    Emil Benz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Wow DTG, this made my day, thanks!!!
    I'm not expecting any FPS boost, and honestly i'm fine with performance for the immediate futur, but I have always been so frustrated at the limits of how much DLC content I could use in a scenario before the sim ran out of memory and crashed. If I read this right, this sounds like I should be pretty wide open to, say, put all the prototypical NJT trains on the NEC, or finally create a scenario in the Pacific Surfliner that includes the AI i'd like to see without needing to save and restart halfway through. Really looking forward to this!!
     
  46. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    218
    Don't jinx it...
     
  47. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Active Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    136
    My impression is that people want a 64 bit update that will make everything faster, introduce all sorts of new features and improve the graphics. Well- hands up anyone who wouldn't like that but that is impossible (or at least fantastically difficult requiring a complete recoding of the game engine and good luck with backward compatibility) hence TSW- a fresh start with a new up-to-date game engine. This removes memory access restrictions allowing more content and more detailed content, hopefully improved stability and perhaps some performance improvements. Eminently worthwhile but not the 64 bit update some have been hoping for.
     
  48. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    218
    As long as it helps stop crash dumps, I don't care. That's all I'm hoping for.
     
  49. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    It is still an important step towards modernization to have 64 bit in there, and if they can do that, more may be possible in the future. But it makes sense that they start with the memory first, as I've had far more situations in TS completely ruined by a temp dump than completely ruined by a graphical freeze. And many times that temp dumps occur are not times of low fps. Yes, now people will be able to kill the framerate without killing the game, but at least the game isn't dying.

    And for existing content made with the very limits of 32 bit in mind, 64 bit makes those a lot more stable without hurting FPS at all-and usually those insane scenarios are only insane because they use a ton of DLC, not like they are super laggy or anything.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  50. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    3
    Will TS 64-bit be able to access up to 8 TERABYTES of VAS - if it can that will be the major advance!!
    pH
     

Share This Page