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Ts18: The Dawn Of A New Era

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

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    Another question I have about this update is size. How much space is this update going to take up. I'm just asking because I'm extremely limited on hard drive space.
     
  2. Frank Jennings

    Frank Jennings New Member

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    When reading this I thought it was my Birthday (Which is not until next month) Fabulous news Thank you DTG
     
  3. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Buy another one? They’re not exactly expensive!
     
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  4. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

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    I'm on a poverty budget here. I can just barely afford a new route once every few months on sale. Hard drive space isn't the only thing I'm tight on.
     
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  5. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear that, but you can pick up new 1TB external drives for less than £40 on Amazon. I’m sure you’d be able to get used ones for significantly less!

    That said, I can’t imagine that the update would take up a massive amount of space. We’ll have to wait & see.
     
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  6. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

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    Yeah, this update is probably gonna wipe me out. I only have 30 GB left on my current SSD.
     
  7. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

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    Not only that, but I know very little about computers and even the most basic tasks are a confusing challenge to me. It will be enough of a pain just getting TS out of Program Files and onto the new drive if I do get one.
     
  8. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Active Member

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    I'd be amazed if the update made any appreciable impression on 30GB. IRRC my installation of TS is about half of that and most of that space is taken by routes and other DLC. The core program, the bit that's being updated, is much less than a gigabyte.

    (Hah- I remember getting a 170MB hard drive for my Amiga and wondering what I was going to do with all that storage.)
     
  9. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

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    Lol yeah. I was looking at drives on Amazon and saw up to 4 TB ones. Mind you I didn't look too deep, but still. That would have blown people's minds back then.
     
  10. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Active Member

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    It boggles my mind a bit now- and I bought a 4TB drive last year! I do video editing and the 1TB drive I bought for that filled up a lot faster than that Amiga drive did.

    But, to drag this post back to something resembling the topic, the update may well take up some more disk space and Dovetail may take the opportunity to introduce some new features which would also have an effect (although, currently, the update seems to be more about making what we've already got work better) but it's unlikely that the core program will inflate by a factor of a hundred.

    Of course, you realize, I could be wrong...

    ...but, if I am, you will have the option to stick with the 32bit TS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  11. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

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    I'll probably have to until I can afford the external drive.
     
  12. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    You could always uninstall routes that you don’t use. I very rarely (pretty much never) use non-UK content even though I have a fair bit of it that was bundled in with various base Train Sims. All of it isn’t installed, but sits there on Steam should I ever wish to use it. Would that help?

    ps My first ever PC had an 80mb hard drive!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  13. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

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    I already did and it got me to where I am now. There are a few more routes that I don't use, but I still keep them because I use the trains that come with those routes. If the route goes, the train goes with it. I'm going out in a bit to price external SSDs and see if I can find one big enough and cheap enough.
     
  14. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Good luck!
     
  15. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

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    Yeah. You see, I'll be able to fit the update on my current drive and maybe about 1 or 2 routes afterwards, but that's about it.
     
  16. peterdian

    peterdian New Member

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    Thank you for the answer, but I'm afraid, I was not talking about Train Sim World. I was asking about Train Simulator specifically, since I've read, that multiplayer was in development in the past, but was abandoned due to the lack on interest? I'm unable to find the article on the internet. Maybe someone can remember it, too?
     
  17. Yawwie

    Yawwie New Member

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    3 words to describe this moment: About darn time!
     
  18. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Active Member

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    If it's what I'm thinking of, that was called "Relay Mode" and it was less multiplayer and more finish half a scenario then give it to a friend to finish. Marias Pass and London to Brighton come with one each, but their functionality was broken in the move to TS2015.
     
  19. peterdian

    peterdian New Member

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    Yes, I guess that was supposed to be the first step, first time mentioned around TS2012/2013. And later online Career Mode and full multiplayer support, as far, as I can remember.
     
  20. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    On motion blur, I'll get this added to the wish list to at least explore it - I suspect this may be unlikely due to the processing overhead required.

    It's highly unlikely we'll see an upgrade to DX11/12 for Train Simulator but it has been something we've discussed internally. There are many technical reasons as to why we may not see it and most of those are related to the fact that you may not be able to use your existing train and route collections. This doesn't rule it out entirely as there may be ways to accommodate it.

    Best, Steve
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    It's not an upgrade, it's an addititonal program so definitely will take up more disk space...
    My question would be more whether you can uninstall the 32 bit version to save space, whether you can set the 64bit as default, set a flag or have a direct 64bit shortcut yada yada...

    Given I play on a surface tablet at the moment I would always choose the 64bit with a reduced framerate (I have it set at 15fps right now) but to do this I set a flag on the shortcut. Being able to do away with non-used content is definitely a bonus when everything runs on a 256Gb SSD that cannot be upgraded (until I get a proper PC next year)
     
  22. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Active Member

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    I didn't read that anywhere but it does make sense to have both alongside each other so I'll concede that point. I can still see no reason why it should take up much vastly more space than the 32bit core and utilities. Currently that's what? Half a GB?
     
  23. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    I quoted Steve who said it would be an alongside option rather than a replacement...
    My current install, excluding the assets, content and manuals folder is 0.99Gb. On very restricted systems this can cause a lot of impact. I only had a 250Gb SSD on my TS system so every Gb counts, especially once you consider VRAM etc
     
  24. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    I'm not sure you can set it to run 64-bit by default (I'll check on what we can do about this) but you'll certainly be able to create a shortcut on your desktop to the 64-bit executable in the same way you do for other applications. As for removing 32-bit and leaving 64-bit in situ, it will only really save you around 20 to 30 MB which may be enough for what you have in mind. Just keep in mind that there are some components that will be used by both and, if you encounter problems, a verify will reinstate anything you've purposefully removed.

    Don't forget that there's a fair portion of content in the Assets folder that's required for Train Simulator to run - so you're looking at around 2.5 GB-ish total for 32-bit. For 64-bit there's a storage overhead of around 500 to 700 MB-ish on top so it's not a huge increase but an increase nonetheless.

    Best, Steve
     
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    I'll be doing this on day one. Can someone make a note off keeping the slash options on both programs as some of us prefer to restrict framerates rather than have our machines always trying to pump frames out ;)

    half a gig won't be so bad. I make sure I clean out my disk on a monthly basis to keep it running quickly
     
  26. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    There won't be any change to the launch options that I'm aware of - so all of the "slashes", as you call them, will work on both.

    Best, Steve
     
  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    I'm sure if they don't I'll be making inquiries :)
     
  28. John Murphy

    John Murphy Active Member

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    Okay, well that gets rid of a lot of my worries. I can definitely handle that. I'm still gonna look toward getting a new external SSD, because if the routes are gonna be bigger now (like multiple gigs in size), I won't be able to handle those.
     
  29. Aaron333

    Aaron333 New Member

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    Hi Steve, A couple of questions. Will there ever be in TS2019 or any future release of TS, a proper PIS( Passenger info System) on trains and at stations i.e. train announcements etc and also will there be an ability to change trains during standard and career scenarios? (for example drive a loco into a station with carriages and go to and click the shunter to drive and take the carriages to siding bit like in free roam scenarios) Thanks.
     
  30. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    Trainsim Steve.......I'll keep asking, because you never know I might get a response. Please can the camera 'key 8' be untethered whilst within freeroam scenario, so you can select any loco on the line. It's pretty much a pre-requisite of 'freeroam' that you can do that - freeroam.....why on earth would TS be set up so that once a loco is selected you're tethered to that loco - you can only select locos you can see from the loco you're in.
     
  31. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer New Member

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    hey DTG can there still be features added in to the blueprint editor down the road? if so one feature i like to see is adding light element to loft project.
     
  32. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    LamaMond with the 32 bit capability being retained, or if your current PC is 64 bit capable I doubt that you will lose out from your current situation. However I think that going forward there’s a trend to make content (and in particular routes) richer which will mean less and less new content that will work for you. I understand that this discourage some, and may prevent others from adopting the game. However my guess is that the majority of new content is bought by avid train simmers who have invested in more powerful rigs and that’s where the market (money) is. Balancing new content that works on low and high end rigs is probably increasingly challenging. There have been reports where, for example, turning down the settings ends up with key features like platforms disappearing. In other sim games, and I’m thinking FSX in particular, there is a big enough market and enough providers that there’s a broad range of content, some that requires very capable rigs (and is more expensive) and some that is more basic and needs less PC firepower. Train simulation is probably too small a niche to support that.

    On people with high end rigs ‘can play TSW’ I think you’ll find disagreement on that. People choose TSxxxx over TSW for many issues other than graphics quality. In fact there’s an argument that TSW is the product aimed at people who don’t have a gaming rig. The console option provides a lower cost of entry route for users that doesn’t exist in TSxxxx.
     
  33. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    I can confirm this. I run TS on a Surface Pro on low detail and New Hythe (Medway Valley line) both platforms don't show at all and many platforms disappear especially at night. Also some flyovers and bridges which support other rail lines (not roads) have a tendency to not be shown.

    Doesn't sound like a normal office setup to me. Most business machines have 4 or 8Gb of bog standard RAM and at most a core i5 processor

    TSW DOES run on iHD chips, I can run it on my work machine with just that. It only does a few frames per second though and that's the snag. If you want it to run anything like smoothly, with anything like decent quality then you should always have the proper kit.
    Running an onboard GPU is like running a tractor on 14" wheels. It may well work in fits and starts, but you won't get the proper performance that you would get with dedicated architecture.
     
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  34. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I question how huge of a market designing for office machine would really be. Train Simulation is all ready a niche market place, and personally, I do not see it ever moving beyond such status. And from my experience in flight simulation, those who take simulations as a hobby are not adverse to spending money on rigs and peripherals to enjoy their hobbies to the fullest. And usually, it is these hobbyist that are the mainstays of the purchasers of the DLC. Just read through any forum and all are asking for more realism - improved graphics, complaints about a rivet being out of place. Request for Dynamic weather, Passenger Info Systems, voice overs and the such are daily occurrences along with the cry for better frames rates and optimization with great amounts of "prototypical" traffic. All this calls for more horsepower - not less.

    Now take DTG being a relatively small software house, take the talent they have and start introducing multiple forks of TS - 64bit and increased realism, improving and expanding memory utilization as one fork while another fork would be to decrease reliance on GPUs and optimizing for less memory for said office machines might be spreading the talent too thin. Just my thoughts..
     
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  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    That's quite high for "an office computer".
    And on the case of GPU manufacturers always pushing... To my mind it's normally end users that want more... More fluidity, more capability and less waiting. As a network manager I can state categorically that when users start having to wait for things, or their colleagues start NOT having to wait things get "tetchy".
    Unfortunately PC gaming isn't like consoles where everyone has the same (or comparable) kit. You gets what you pay for and if you choose not to pay then you choose (essentially) not to play...
    But this derails the thread which is more about what 64bit can bring to the game rather than spec splitting.
    Personally I can see a way forward on this. You mark scenarios in the workshop as per optimsation and make it another column on the 64 bit selection screen. That way if you play in 32 bit you're not going to see laggy keel over scenarios in your options, and in 64 bit you can choose those with more varied or optimised action
     
  36. TrainSim-Luke

    TrainSim-Luke Well-Known Member

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    Depends which office you work in. ;)
    If your office just deals with emails and spreadsheets, sure you don't need much spec.
    My office PC on the other hand is a much higher spec than my own PC back home... I'm a little bit envious of it...
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    Well yes, software developers, graphics artists, architects etc tend to need more power. Generally end users don't need that much power though LOL
    Seeing as you mentioned it... What IS the spec you're running?
     
  38. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    LeadCatcher I think that the dynamic weather idea comes from a posting of mine. I know many people consider their changes essential. Mine was more a rumination of what useful features the new 64 bit might lead to beyond removing the memory constraint.
    There have been several useful features suggested, but none - at least to my way of thinking - that naturally take advantage of 64 bit capability. Their all good ideas, but not something that follows directly from 64 bit.
    While many bump into the memory issue with dumps and instability fixing that is of course enormously useful. Some increased freedom with scenarios should also be available. But what else?
    I do worry a little that with a term like ‘new era’ people may see this as being more transformational than it is actually going to be. DTG have asked for suggestions but haven’t offered up, as yet, where they see 64 bit taking us.
     
  39. TrainSim-Luke

    TrainSim-Luke Well-Known Member

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    It's an I7 7700 @3.60GHz, 32GB RAM and a GTX 1060 3GB

    Somewhat better than my home machine which is an i5 3570k (slightly overclocked to 3.8GHz), 16GB RAM and GTX 770.
     
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  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    just a touch lol
     
  41. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    I think there is some conspiracy - who's behind it, maybe those who killed JFK, maybe it's aliens, the illuminati? This is why, anyone who's played freeroam and there will be a lot of people out there who have and do, will immediately discover that when you terminate your train in a station and then decide you'd like to jump into another loco in another station you can't because he camera is tethered to the loco you're in. Now this should come up all the time on any TS forum, it's an instant issue and the most important to anyone who freeroams, but does it? Never, zilch, nadda. How could it not, create the most powerful trainsim ever, but then hamstrung it in this way. Now I've been banging on about this for years - I've already mentioned it three times here for example.....and yet no matter how often I mention it.....there is silence. People talk about which graphics card to use, real time weather, dual monitors, multiplayer any and all glitches and it gets engagement from DTG and the TS community.....but mention the freeroam camera being tethered.....and there is absolute silence........

    Could be that the creators of TS found a hole in the fabric of time and space to an alternative dimension and untethering the camera might not simply allow you to select any loco in freeroam but rip a hole in reality........hence it is suppressed by the unseen forces who control our lives.......it only a matter of time before they catch up with me and I meet with an 'accident' and any trace of my existence is deleted.
     
  42. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Broomwagen - Glad to see you haven't given up the crusade :) - and I mean that in a friendly jest - but personally, in my nearly 4600 hours of playing TS have I ever felt hamstrung by the camera being tethered to the players train and so that is my reason for not ever mentioning it. I don't do freeroams either, but I do hope they address it for you. Though not a biggie for me, I do support you in your seemingly solitary mission to get this oversight corrected.
     
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  43. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    Thanks LeadC - I am genuinely nonplussed that I'm the only one who seems bothered by this. Am I the only one who creates and runs their own freeroams? As I've said many times before, Imho running your own freeroams is like the victoria sponge and cup of tea of train simming whereas scenarios are just the jam. Fine if people only like jam, but I honestly think most TS users don't know what they're missing........but as soon as you freeroam you realise it's unnecessarily hamstrung.

    Odd thing is whilst, I've raised a ticket, commented many times, whilst DTG engage with all sorts of things, never have I seen any comment from them on this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
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  44. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Broomwagon I’ve followed your various post on freeroams. I think you said that one of the benefits was that it allowed you to fully explore the route maps. It’s true that there are many interesting branch lines, industrial zones and shunting yards that many people might miss.
    I started with Quick drives but often the frustration there is the to and from station pairing isn’t always there or even covered (often true of freight yards). So then I looked at free roams and then found that the loco choice wasn’t always what I wanted, or the starting point wasn’t correct. So that took me to the editor and as you’ll know free roam scenarios are easy to build and a good starting point for using the editor. It was simple to set up a choice of locos, some rolling stock and off you go. Up until that point I would agree with you that free roams were a great facility.
    But at that point once I started to use the editor I realized that building scenarios for myself wasn’t too difficult. Like freeroams I could explore bits of the route that I hadn’t seen but with AI I could start to make things more interesting. For example on the Exeter-Bristol route I know Weston SM quite well as my brother lives nearby. Now WSM has some interesting single tracking on either side connecting to the mainline. That can lead to some interesting scheduling permutations.
    So, building free roams does give you a ‘pass’ to all of the route content. But equally so can going the extra step and building a scenario. Running a free roam obviously keeps your attention making sure that the route ahead contains no surprises. Writing a scenario deals with that problem in advance as you set the pathing.
    So horses for courses but I’m not sure scenarios are just ‘jam’. Working a routing through Edge Hill on Manchester to Liverpool yesterday seemed more like your sponge and tea together with a crossword puzzle!
     
  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    I'm a newbie at 333 hours played, but got annoyed with free roams almost immediately when I kept running into red lights and adverse points. I think this is why scenarios work for more people, because they don't have to worry about points etc in 95% of them (shunting scenarios being a distinct counter to this of course)
    I'm sure that many people who play this "game" do prefer to be able to hop in and drive rather than having to think about routing and making sure the next ten miles are all layed out as required so as to not derail at 65mph

    For me creating your own scenarios with difference, complexity and interest would be the cake. Not sure a free roam with no distinct purpose serves this. Maybe I'm too target driven lol
     
  46. AmorRomantico

    AmorRomantico New Member

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    My questions: Which routes in the USA will have?

    1. NEC, it's not complete? Missing from Washington DC to Philadelphia, PA. Missing From New York City to Boston.
    2. Will it have similarities to TSW? for example the process to start an engine regardless if diesel and/or electrical?
    3. Will it be possible to see more from the passenger view? like pick from passenger to dinner car?
     
  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    It will have all the US routes it has now... It's the core game engine rather than anything else that's being updated...
     
  48. Pendolino1987

    Pendolino1987 Member

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    I just would like to know abit more info from the developer regarding this "New Era" would be nice :)
     
  49. Cat

    Cat Member

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    Go to the first post and read it.
     
  50. Pendolino1987

    Pendolino1987 Member

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    I did and i want to know more about this "New Era" what could be more include in the package ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018

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