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Ts18: The Dawn Of A New Era

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. Cat

    Cat Member

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    The 64 bit update is free. As for routes, if any, you'll have to buy them as usual.
     
  2. Pendolino1987

    Pendolino1987 Member

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    Well yes i imagen the 64bit "Core" is free as per usual and yes of course any new Dlc paying extra for it just intrested more to find what will come Dlc wise and release date for the "New Era"
     
  3. Cat

    Cat Member

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    I'm sure there will be the big announcement soon.
     
  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    They've already said they don't do forewarning on release dates because if it gets put back for any reason they would get flak.
    And other than that the "new era" is a title, not a promise. There won't be any transformational overnight wonderousness, unless your machine hits the memory wall whenever you create or run a scenario, when you'll find yourself able to actually run things.
     
  5. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Hi Broomwagon,

    In fact the camera is not tethered to a specific train in Freeroam - simply pressing the 8 key (top row number keys) will put you into a free move camera mode and you can then go wherever you need to go using the cursor keys and right mouse button. When you want to take over another train, as long as it has been set up with a driver icon in the Editor, you will be able to click on it to take over and drive it.

    Hope this helps.

    Best, Steve
     
  6. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ARuscoe on your point about release dates I think there’s another way of looking at that. While I understand that the DTG marketing department is trying to create ‘excitement’ the recent article made it all sound very immininent. The golden rule should be NOT to talk about the release (rather than ‘we are working on it’) until you’re 99% certain it’s done. Done means tested completely and all that is required is that a bow is thrown around the release and every one focuses on that activity.

    If you commit to including it a release (and if it’s TS2019 it has to be in the next 18 weeks) and you aren’t at that stage then one of two things happens. One, it gets delayed and people get unhappy or two, it gets pushed out of the door on the date management originally set without complete testing and people get unhappy. Not that we’ve ever seen the latter from DTG in the past...

    I do wonder if the imminent new release of Trainz (confusingly called TRS2019) might have pushed the early release of the 64 bit news. I’m not a big fan of Trainz but their old vs. new comparison shots make it look as if they are making progress. Not enough progress to tempt existing TS users away but clearly competition in the hunt for new users.
     
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  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    Medellinexpat I agree that in the ideal world those things would happen. Unfortunately there is a (very large) number of people on this site who are... meticulous in their needs for things to be "just so", so say DTG said "This will be released on Monday 3rd September", people would start asking what time, what DLC is it going to have, will the trains be coated in chocolate.... all the usual nonsense.
    In all the years I've been following games or PC software generally (so since about 1992) I've never seen some of the crap the people here face. So I can really see why DTG may well say "We're close to this" without being firm on exact dates, even given that "Coming soon" is definitely a woolly way of saying "probably some time in the next six weeks"
     
  8. Pendolino1987

    Pendolino1987 Member

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    Calm down guy's was a simple question don't get all cockie and defensive about it.
     
  9. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    Trainsim Steve.......Yes the camera is tethered in freeroam, try it. Yes one can jump into any loco within line of sight of the loco I'm in, (about 2km of view) - but if you want to go beyond that forget it. This is extremely limiting to running freeroam layout style - can't so much as go to the next station or yard. For example terminate your train in Kingswear on Riviera 1950, but then pick up the freight train you've placed in Exeter - forget it. Honestly try it, I've had this debate many many times - believe me, I'm right. Thanks for engaging with me by the way.
     
  10. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    Thanks to those who responded to my post about freeroaming (nice to know I'm not invisible). I don't want to get into a discussions about the best way to use TS (it's one I've had many times before) but I will say, I run AI trains in freeroam, its quite possible. Also changing points, well I'm the driver, fireman, shunter, guard 'and' signalman - but this is all to the good as far as I'm concerned - this is the power of freeroam, so why whomever was responsible for the original coding would decide once you'd selected your first loco you'd be tethered to line of sight of that loco - approx 2km (you can select any loco within line of sight but want to go to the loco you have in the next station, you cannot) I cannot possibly surmise. And why this issue is something DTG seem to have been silent on over the years again, I cannot possibly surmise. Don't think I'm a Jonah about TS or DTG I love it, I'm a true fanboy......but please release freeroam to be just that - freeroam.
     
  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    Maybe this is why freeroams are entitled their starting stations. It's expected you will roam from that station rather than jump. Who knows?
     
  12. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    Perhaps it should be called driver simulator as you can only move to any loco you could in real life walk to. ;)
     
  13. GibbseyNZ

    GibbseyNZ New Member

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    https://www.facebook.com/NZTSWorkshops/?ref=bookmarks

    It is hoped we can release it through the TS partner program once its done but that isnt confirmed yet. Its getting closer to being done but still a while away. Hopefully this year, but there is only 2 people working on it.
     
  14. Cat

    Cat Member

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    No one is getting cockie? and defensive, just stating facts. DTG would be daft to publish an exact time and date until they are ready. Patience you must learn the Jedi way.
     
  15. Pendolino1987

    Pendolino1987 Member

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    Thank you for the reply appreciated
     
  16. Pendolino1987

    Pendolino1987 Member

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    I do wait patiently and i know DTG don't release times or dates what i mean with my question was meant to say if was gone be a release in the next month and not asked exactly a exact time or day of the release ;)
     
  17. Cat

    Cat Member

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    Soon we hope. ;)
     
  18. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Hi All,

    Answering some more questions received since I was last here:

    So a PIS system relies entirely on how the internal train routing and dispatch system (we call it the dispatcher) can communicate and work with the various other components, such as signalling and train position information. To make this work, it would effectively need everything to be internal to the dispatcher component. Based on how Train Simulator was designed, how signalling works and the trains themselves, it is not going to be possible to make this work. Signalling in Train Simulator is effectively an add-on, it's external to the core code and the dispatcher has no idea what signals are. All it knows is how to dispatch trains and route them, and trains themselves look for specific underlying messages which tell them how to react - which is the crux of the issue. Making signalling part of the core is a monumental job and, when we first looked at it, we realised it was actually easier to start again. So long story short, no, a proper PIS system is very unlikely.

    As for changing trains and such during career and standard scenarios - I think we all have this wish. However, again, it's all down to how the dispatcher works. It needs a pre-defined set of rules to work properly and when we first tackled the dispatcher back in 2010/2011-ish, it pretty much broke everything. All the scenarios stopped working and needed to be remade using the new dispatcher system. So you can understand why we don't like messing with it - any changes at all to the dispatcher will fundamentally break every piece of content out there (unless it's scenery of course :P). I don't think anyone would be at all happy with that. So that's the reason it currently only works in freeroam - because the dispatcher is not operational in that mode of play.

    I don't see why not but I think there's already a way around what you're attempting to accomplish - I'll look into this and get back to you via DM.

    Ok so integrated graphics have never been officially supported but that has never meant it doesn't work - I've seen many such examples where people have got it to work. All this really means is that we can't help you if you run into stability or performance issues - Train Simulator was never designed to run on them. What you're essentially attempting to do is run a high performance and load intensive 3D application through a component that was never designed for such a purpose - at most integrated graphics chips were designed for simple 3D graphics only such as presentations and basic animation. So, given the kinds of intrinsic loads and performance requirements for Train Simulator, it will always need a high performance discreet graphics processor and integrated graphics processors will remain unsupported.

    New Era refers to the 64-bit era which we all hailed and rejoiced at it's introduction back in the day - if any of you remember these coming to market then you'll get what I mean :)

    Ah so what you're referring to is the exploration boundary not camera tethering. There is a way around that but the boundary is not going to go away for numerous technical reasons (most are about ensuring players are not needing to be presented with loading screens mid-scenario and ensuring the player is always shown rendered objects). To get around it, follow these instructions:

    When you've reached the point where you want to go outside the exploration boundary, press Ctrl + E to enter the editor. Press the 9 key to go to the 2D map and then scroll the map to find the place you wish to jump to. Press and hold Ctrl and left-click on the map at the point you wish to move to. Exit from the 2D map and press the small play button on the centre panel at the top of the screen (where it shows the lat and long). You'll be instantly transported to the location you clicked and now all you need to do is make sure you're above ground level and press the big play button in the bottom right and the scenario will resume at the location you wanted to be.

    Hope this helps.

    Best, Steve
     
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  19. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    TrainSim - thanks again for responding - but no that doesn't work - or rather it does, but doing what you've discussed resets the scenario to how it was when you started. In my example, you've driven your train to Kingwear where you've terminated it, but now want to drive a train at Exeter. Doing what you suggest gets you back to Exeter, but the train at Kingswear is now back to where it started. As someone who runs layout style, carrying out rail operations, moving wagons and trains around the line, reseting all those movements whenever I want to drive a train in a different location rather defeats the point of freeroam.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    Are you talking about the 1970s supercomputers, 1990s consoles or the early 2000s home PC chips? 64 bit has been around for ages... just not in train sim
    As an old git who had every Nintendo since the NES I remember the hype about 64 bit gaming when the N64 came out...
     
  21. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    What I tend to do in practice - I carry out train movements and remember what I've done. I then go into the editor, manually replicate the movements in the editor and then press the play button - this saves the movements. Another option which works quite well on branch lines is every 2km I hide a small loco in sheds and that way I can jump loco to loco to get me anywhere on the line within scenario - I made a youtube clip showing the issue and my solution in action.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  22. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    By the way - hopefully my clip also shows - how powerful freeroam is and why I'm such a TS fanboy......for a rail enthusiast there real is nothing like TS.
     
  23. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Are you sure? I just tried it so I could work out the instructions to give to you - my scenario didn't reset so unless you're actually changing something with the scenario itself, it should work. The only reason it resets is if you change something in the scenario. I'll do some further investigation on this and get back to you.

    Well no-one really cared about supercomputers except those who were actually working with them. I was more thinking consumer-facing stuff, consoles and PCs :)

    Best, Steve
     
  24. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Nice video :)

    Edit, actually you just gave me an idea. So we know the boundary is there for technical reasons and as good as those reasons are they are annoying when you want to explore outside of those areas. What if we implemented something like the camera views in the train cab. For example you press the left or right arrow keys and it jumps you down the route to the next 4 km zone?

    Best, Steve
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    So that's only 25 years ago then (1993 the N64 was released...)
     
  26. Pendolino1987

    Pendolino1987 Member

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    Hi Steve thanks to take the time to answer always appreciated yes of course i do remember it well excited day's head to see the actual improvement it bring using the Core game on 64bit :)
     
  27. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    'Are you sure? I just tried it so I could work out the instructions to give to you - my scenario didn't reset so unless you're actually changing something with the scenario itself, it should work. The only reason it resets is if you change something in the scenario. I'll do some further investigation on this and get back to you.'

    TrainSim Steve - thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me - it is much appreciated. I've tried your solution a few times over the years and again at your suggestion (quite a lot because
    I so much want it to work:)) but....it doesn't. You go through the steps but when you press the final big play button it takes you back to your original position - (hence still with the original loco). No -ne would be more delighted than me to be doing something wrong and it to work but no matter how often and how carefully I follow your suggestion it doesn't work.

    Re - having arrow keys that would take you to the next 4km section, - well if it would allow you to then jump into the next 4km and the next and so on and jump into any loco and drive it in any of those sections without resetting the scenario.....well other than winning the national lottery and having Charlize Theron ring me up and announce she'd fallen madly in love with me, and how soon could we get together...…..I can't think of anything I'd like better.
     
  28. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    'Are you sure? I just tried it so I could work out the instructions to give to you - my scenario didn't reset so unless you're actually changing something with the scenario itself, it should work. The only reason it resets is if you change something in the scenario. I'll do some further investigation on this and get back to you.'

    TrainSim Steve - thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me - it is much appreciated. I've tried your solution a few times over the years and again at your suggestion (quite a lot because I so much want it to work:)) but....it doesn't. You go through the steps but when you press the final big play button it takes you back to your original position - (hence still with the original loco). No -one would be more delighted than me to be doing something wrong and it to work but no matter how often and how carefully I follow your suggestion it doesn't work.

    Re - having arrow keys that would take you to the next 4km section, - well if it would allow you to then jump into the next 4km and the next and so on and jump into any loco and drive it in any of those sections without resetting the scenario.....well other than winning the national lottery and having Charlize Theron ring me up and announce she'd fallen madly in love with me, and how soon could we get together...…..I can't think of anything I'd like better.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  29. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    LamaMond that benchmarking is pretty selective. On speed ranking the HD 630 comes in at 253rd out of 593 whereas the 1060 (6gb) in my $1,000 laptop comes in at 27th. And a 1060 is around $300. In every category the 1060 - a not unreasonable choice for gamers building a new machine - out performs the 630.

    On the idea that electricity will become expensive (or at least in the life of TS or your next computer purchase) I’m not sure that is true. Where electricity comes from may be changing (massive hydro projects where I am) but I’m not sure that pricing - even with the new auto demand - is going to be significantly higher.

    I do agree technology changes can happen quickly and up end previous standards (SSDs overtaking Hard Drives) and that expanded chipset capability is a promising trend.
     
  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    No it's not. The future is likely to be a spectrum of low power low intensity units as well as high powered dedicated units.
    This has been the case since way before I started in computer management in 1994 and continues today.
    Personally if I want to run anything above youtube and basic browsing I would have a dedicated offboard GPU with dedicated memory.
    Yes, in your setup you're able to split the memory and so on, but that still takes from the core system, which a dedicated GPU would do less of
     
  31. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    LamaMond I never claimed to be a ‘smart computer guy’ although my background is in tech.

    Other than your opinion where’s the evidence that DTG will ‘face low sales in the future’ if they don’t follow this trend? There are other trends which are contrary to your view. Take eGPUs for example. Personally I don’t know if that’s a long term trend or a response to existing cooling and space issues but there’s clearly a move towards bigger, better and more power hungry GPUs. VR is where the gaming industry is going and although it currently seems to be delayed that’s in part due to affordable hardware. DLC for games is going to get bigger (look at some of the download sizes for newer flight sim scenery) as the gaming industry moves towards greater immersion. As internet speeds improve perhaps your route scenery will be held centrally and you’ll consume it as you need it. Those are equal, if not larger threats to the current TS business model.

    Power efficiency will improve, or catch up, with hardware but if DTG are facing financial issues over power availability and cost what does that suggest for the auto, the TV, the kitchen appliance markets and a hundred other industries?

    As for power interruptions tell me about them. I live in a rural area of a not very wealthy emerging country that lies directly in the intertropical convergence zone (therefore big storms literally every night). The area is being developed rapidly with increased power demands. There are power fluctuations every day and outages at least once a week. But it’s being managed.
     
  32. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    As a horse breeder - I never bet on the younger horse - it is immature, more likely to bolt from being startled while the old horse knows the drill and has enough experience to know when to put out and when to conserve... but that is horses.. of course that is cattle horses — go fast horses that only know how to turn to the left are not very good for anything on the ranch :).

    with ts2019 going to 64bit - I don’t see it regressing to lower powered devices and as I have stated in other threads - simulator aficionados view it as a hobby and are not adverse to spending money on their hobby for peripherals such as TracIR, raildriver, SSDs and the like to eek out a bit more realism or performance. And i use both TSW and TS2018 - with all the money I have spent over the years on the TS franchise doubtfully I will ever leave it behind. And the great improvements that TSW is showing, will be with it for the long haul with it as well.
     
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  33. Cat

    Cat Member

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    So it's horses for courses. For those that want better graphics the it's TSW. For those who want more choice it's TSxx. I'll not be investing in TSW until it produces the route/s that I want.
     
  34. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer New Member

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    i hope in the future there a way. so TSX graphics engine your using now was that made by DTG or no?
    who know maybe there be graphic engine upgrade for this game that has DX 11/12 & ray turning capability for the use of new RTX cards like 2080. that be so so cool
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2018
  35. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Great, I've added it to the wishlist Broomwagon, finger's crossed :)

    Best, Steve
     
  36. Bartdude

    Bartdude New Member

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    The English spelling is "cocky". In Oz and some other countries,a "cockie" is a cockroach,so surely more offensive ?? lol
     
  37. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon New Member

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    Steve, really? What can I say, other than you've got yourself, a very grateful fan......what a hero. I think there must be thousands out there who will be absolutely delighted if you can do this. I do hope it happens - how wonderful.
     
  38. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Man - I am happy for you Broomwagen -- it just shows that polite persistence pays off.. Good show... Hope they can accommodate your feature.
     
  39. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Member

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    I like the new-look DTG, it's nice to have a say and be listened to.
     
  40. kiski

    kiski New Member

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    Never happened to me, to be honest.

    One suggestion I have in my mind for a New Era 64-bit release - would it be possibe to implement newer LUA executable? The one in actual version is pretty obsolete.
     
  41. GT46PAC

    GT46PAC Active Member

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    Can you explain a little bit more to a non IT Background person like myself about the statement you made regarding Lua?
     
  42. kiski

    kiski New Member

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    I don´t understand what statement you mean. Obsolete mean obsolete, no more, no less. New LUA from 5.2 forward support many new things and DTG knows it. Or you meant my post I posted in other section?
     
  43. GT46PAC

    GT46PAC Active Member

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    Ok, I am afraid, you did not got what I was asking.
    Let me say again.
    How do we can see which version of Lua is being used in the game?
    The Lua website also says -
    The current version is Lua 5.3 and its current release is Lua 5.3.5.
    What you posted in other section, I don't know but I will be thankful of you point out the link.
     
  44. kiski

    kiski New Member

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    TS2018 uses LUA 5.1 I guess. Or even 5.0.x . You can see it if you open any compiled .out script in any texteditor and find the very first line. If it says LuaP, it is very old and obsolete compiled LUA code, belonging to 5.0 or 5.1, can´t remember right now...
     
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  45. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Just to drop into the conversation - the version of Lua used by TS is 5.0.2.

    Best, Steve
     
  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Active Member

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    And presumably there's a reason why this cannot be brought into the new version...?
    I know as someone who dabbles in MySQL coding that it can be a pig to move across major versions (transactional vs procedural etc)
     
  47. Wolf

    Wolf New Member

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    Well the question is if there is a 64-bit version of that Lua version. I mean that was the problem that Laminar research had when they moved X-Plane 10 onto 64-bit...........on Mac that is.
    Because the MAC OS did not have that language in a 64-bit version.

    The Lua version history gives as 5.3 as the one where the new feature is the support of a 64-bit plattform.
    https://www.lua.org/versions.html
    Although could that not also be done with a wrapper?
     
  48. Canis_Lupus

    Canis_Lupus Member

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    Is there an open beta or such a thing?
     
  49. JFH

    JFH Member

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    Not that I'm aware of.

    It's a nice idea, but I don't think an open beta would be a good idea for this sort of update.
     
  50. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Canis_Lupus certainly access to a Beta would be good but I wonder if the DTG delivery via Steam might get in the way of that?
     

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