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Ts2018 Vs Tsw?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kentolsson73, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. Kentolsson73

    Kentolsson73 New Member

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    Tried to be positive but just had it with this tsw bs.
    Sure it looks rly good and all, but...
    As it is now its pretty much useless as a train simulator. Its more like a frikkin arcade game for non serious simmers. The more you learn about signaling and safety systems and how trains work IRL the more you realize how bad it really is. And DTG dont seem very concerned about fix it either.
    Take RT for example, and all issues with PZB. They KNOW its crap and rebuilt it for next german DLC but admits it wont be a fix for RT anytime soon, probably never. If they dont intend to fix it now why would they do it in a year or so when they released another 6-10 DLCs as buggy and useless as previous ones...
    And I honestly cant believe how they could release NEC at all as it was. Dont they even test their DLCs b4 release??? I wouldnt say a word if it was a few minor bugs in a few of the services but when not single one of the ACS64 services is impossible to complete w safety systems on...thats quite remarkable.
    I didnt pay my hard earned money to get a fancy looking arcade game with very unrealistic physics and none working essential systems. I thought I bought a SIMULATOR.
    Until DTG fixed at least the most importan issues I will look for other alternatives.
    Unfortenly there arent to many options but it seems to me that ts2018 might be a better option, even if I honestly must say it will hurt giving DTG even more of my money, but whadyafkndo?
    So my question is, hows ts2018 compared to tsw when in regard to things like physics, engines, brakesystems, signaling, safety systems and things like that.
    I absolutely understand that 3rd party content may vary a lot in design and functions but generally. Does ts2018 and content sold by DTG work better than TSW and its fancy looking crap does?
    The graphics are more than good enough for me...far from tsw, but thats a trade im willing to do, if I get fully implemented and WORKING stuff like realistic engines, safety systems and what not.
    Should I even concider moving to ts2018 or simply give up train simming until and if something better comes. I strongly doubt TSW will ever be fixed to my standards since they seem to only force out as much content as possible and hope we will forget about old non working stuff.
    I really hope I'm wrong but as it is now I'm nearly done with it. Its supposed to be fun playing but as it is now its more frustrating with all issues both in game core and DLCs.
    Give me some advice what to do and where to go from here.
    Dont get me wrong...TSW has a lot potential to be an absolutely outstanding train sim. But for that to happen DTG will need to really step it up and use their resources to fix all current issues before spending time making new content.
    If you sell something broken you fix it. Simple as that.
     
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  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I can complete the NEC services with the safety systems on.
     
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  3. MCGermanyFan

    MCGermanyFan Well-Known Member

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    TSW doesn't need and want to be a Simulator for you hardcore experts. It's something for the average person. Many of these normal people don't know so much about real trains and they don't care. They just want to relax or have fun with driving a train. And if you don't like that you don't have to buy and play it. Nobody is killing you if you don't play/like it.
     
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  4. Kentolsson73

    Kentolsson73 New Member

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    To late now not to buy it :(
     
  5. Kentolsson73

    Kentolsson73 New Member

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    ATC/ACSES on and obey signals and speed limits I would say no. Sure you can complete any service. I do that too occasionly, without emergency breaks even. But you wont make to destination within time limit. But I guess that just add some extra realism after all ;)
     
  6. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The schedules aren’t realistic anyway.
     
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  7. SimonM719

    SimonM719 Member

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    The river tunnel need sorting, stuck at to slow speed so can't hit the time slots, it's a known problem for some time, DTG need to fix asap, it spoils the game if you want realism for sure.
    We need an editor asap so that 3rd party routes amd rolling stock can be made also, maybe the 3rd parties can sort it?
     
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  8. Ant Craft

    Ant Craft Member

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    While I agree DTG need to fix the bugs, I am going to repeat the same thing I have said a million times before - they need to release new DLCs to receive an income. Without this income, they won’t have any money to fix them. Once TSW picks up some traction, I’m sure they’ll fix more bugs. There is also the point that if they focuse too much on bugs, no DLCs will come out and they’ll lose their fan base. Just give them some time. After, everything in the game industry needs a lot of time to happen.
     
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  9. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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  10. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I agree and echo what Ant Craft has said.
     
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  11. Kentolsson73

    Kentolsson73 New Member

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    I know that and also agree. But still, why even release NEC in the first place before they got the signals and ATC working? There is no way they werent aware of that it was broken. But sadly enough they probably know that the average user simply shove the throotle to 100% and happily run full speed ahead careless about signals, speed limits and other petite details. And thats OK.
    So why even bother implementing that isnt working in the first place?
    Market and sell it as a very good looking arcade game. Dont put stuff in there that you know doesnt work.
    And again, no I dont think they will ever fix any of these early DLCs, like RT for example. One can only hope future releases have a little higher standards. I guess in year or so not too many will still playing RT or NEC anyways if there are better content avaliable.
    But I'm still kinda pissed they sold us a broken game and pratcally told us they wont fix it. Thats not how you treat your customers.
     
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  12. Kentolsson73

    Kentolsson73 New Member

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    Well well. Guess complaining and crying wont make things better anyway. It is what it is.
    Back to my questions about TS2018. Is it worth buying if I want more accurate physics, signaling and such?
     
  13. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It may take time, but they might do it at some point.
     
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  14. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    No
     
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  15. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Active Member

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    TS 2018 also has bugs, which will never be repaired.
    It is DTG's policy that is like that.
     
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  16. Kentolsson73

    Kentolsson73 New Member

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    It cant be worse,thats for sure
     
  17. Mephrite

    Mephrite Member

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    Something from my perspective - I love german railway. I put a lot of effort in learning of signals and PZB, so I mastered this in TS2016, what gives a lot of satisfaction.

    But Leipzig route in TSW - here PZB works tragic. Of course I understand - implementing PZB in Unreal Engine for the first time can be challenging. But releasing it without plans of making it better it's just unacceptable. So for me TS2016 is much better than TSW.

    Since releasing TSW, graphics was a little bit downgraded due to poor performance. So for me in some places graphics here looks almost same like in TS2016 (and without silly physics bugs, for example with lines). Additionally you can have in scenarios changing weather conditions, in TSW is just same weather for whole day.

    TLDR: TS2016 > TSW (especially if you interested with german routes)
     
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  18. Kentolsson73

    Kentolsson73 New Member

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    TS US Classics Edition bought and installing.
    Too bad I already pre-ordered Ruhr SIeg DLV for TSW...but whatever.
    I´ll give it a try when out too how it works. Maybe DTG actually made something playable :)
    My biggest concerns right now thou are the fact that it is now dumbed down and simplified to suit also consoles and that les efforts will be made to mak it a geniun simulator on PC with a majority user play on consoles.
     
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  19. Kentolsson73

    Kentolsson73 New Member

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    Invested a lot of Money into TSW buying all DLCs for PC and most to XBOX1. Well well. with the amount of time I´ve been playing, enjoying and learned a lot about trains in mind it hasn´t been totally wasted Money. Still enjoy some content like NEC fright operations witch actually works quite well, even if the scenarios and services has some minor issues and odd quirks
     
  20. MCGermanyFan

    MCGermanyFan Well-Known Member

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    TSW is not being "dumbed down and simplified to suit also consoles".
    DTG doesn't need to make a "genuine simulator" because then they would get far less money. It's not their target audience. If you want such a simulator go play Zusi 3 or something else.
     
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  21. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    MCGermanyFan is right. The PC version is not being dumbed down for consoles. Stop spreading false information.
     
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  22. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Why can’t it be both?
     
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  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    At the moment it may feel a bit basic with the features and controls but I’m pretty certain once third party developers get access to the game they will introduce much more advanced features such as wheelslip for example and more accurate physics and sounds.
     
  24. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    DTG is giving new physics to the diesel-electric locomotives.
     
  25. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I know. It’s just learning and mastering the Unreal Engine to get the best results. It’s a shame the engine is not good with dealing with multiple audio channels at the moment, as can tell with the limited sound outputs in the game.
     
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  26. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Member

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    You can be positive and play the wait and see game. Many of us are not happy about the releasing of broken DLC. Dovetail released RT broken have have clearly stated they "don't have the resources" to fix the PZB problem at this time and have no plans at this time to fix it. But, they had no problem taking our money. So, the question is, at what point has too much time passed before we all agree problems should be fixed?
     
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  27. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Member

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    Actually, people are allowed to have their views and opinions on this game. Many of us see this game as a console port now. So, no, it's not "false information".
     
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  28. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Member

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    Tell me again then, why is the word "sim" in the name of he game?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  29. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    As a user of TS2018 with over 4500 hours and several hundred in TSW, if you were unhappy with TSW, then you will be unhappy with TS2018. Several DLC routes have some problems with signaling, many of the DLC engines have "automatic" throttles and there are graphical glitches galore. Physics are all over the spectrum from pretty decent to totally arcade. Graphics range from cartoony to rivet counting quality. System crashes are the norm as you push the limits of the 32 bit architecture with prototypical traffic in congested areas. The editor is really a work of art -- seriously - it takes a long time to master and some of its idiosyncrasies will just make you want to sit back and stare at it. Many of the older scenarios time tables are off and can not be completed. Just as the West Somerset DLC has much improved diesel electric implementation.

    BUT in TS2018 you can find several routes where the signaling is good, the physics are decent and the scenarios are well thought out and work well. The problem I see with TSW at this point in time is -

    1} to be commercial viable - you have to get product out - no company can maintain for long in pure development or RnD stage without some sort of revenue stream to be able to sustain it. DTG's revenue does not come from selling the base, but from selling add-ons to the base just like all the third party developers that provide DLC for FSX, Prepar3d, X-plane 11 and TS2018. So DTG's income stream, just like A2A, PMDG, Just Trains and the multitude of other developers, comes from the add-ons. That means FSX and TS2018 DLC sells not only have to sustain those products, but also have to support any new development work on RnD and new simulations. TSW reached a point where it HAD to start making money for the company.

    2) Looking back at the early days of railworks that progressed to what we now have as TS2018 - it wasn't pretty. Graphical glitches, unrealistic physics, signal systems that were dodgy - but as the development environment was proffected and developers became proficient - products improved - TSW is in its infancy - there will be growing pains, as seen with the west somerset diesel electric improvements - things are progressing. It will take time - but this ins't an AAA title that has only 6 month market fascination and then limited replay value -- it is a hobby that one can spent inordinate amount of time learning locomotive systems, signaling systems, railway procedures and the like,

    3) Once the editing tools are in such a state that is makes sense to release them for TSW - I feel confident third parties will join in and help push the bar higher and higher on the realism, complexity and enjoyment levels - but that will happen when it happens - if they release tools that have such a steep learning curve as the editors for TS2018 - then that would delay the third party development even further.

    We call all complain how terrible TSW is its infancy to the point it dies in the cradle like FSW - or understand it is a growth process and encourage the developer to continue to strive to raise the bar. Yes there are glitches, things are not perfect, but I have found hours of enjoyment on CSX HH, NEC freight scenarios - enjoying the richly detailed stations and so forth.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  30. MCGermanyFan

    MCGermanyFan Well-Known Member

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    Completly agree. Railworks didn't even have PZB and SiFa at release/even some years after release.
    Is it okay if I copy that text and paste it whenever somebody mentions buggy/unfinished DLC?
     
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  31. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Ideally this product should cater for all, whether you want to relax and play it as a game or if you’re a bit more serious about it and play it as a Simulator.

    Though one way or another, these choices shouldn’t be forced to us, so we should have the option how we want to play it i.e ‘easy’ or ‘advanced’

    I like the game to be realistic as possible and don’t mind learning how things work however not everyone has the patience or time for that.
     
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  32. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Because it’s a SIMulator.
     
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  33. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Member

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    I was responding to the poster who is claiming this isn't a simulator.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  34. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to --
     
  35. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Member

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    I understand the point you are trying to make, but you are missing my point. I play X-plane 11 and buy plenty of DLC and they work. When there are issues I have had updates to those purchases in a timely manner. Dovetail has knowingly put out broken DLC's and have stated in interviews they don't have the resources to fix them, sorry but this is unacceptable.

    I don't think you can compare TS20xx progression to TSW because for years Dovetail claimed they couldn't fix the issues in that game because it wasn't originally their base game and they did the best they could. TSW is/was supposed to be different. TSW is their baby from the beginning and any issues/faults or lack of content for the game fall fully on their shoulders. But, for me it seems to be we are getting the same company lines like "it's in the works". I was very positive for a long time. I don't care if other people remain positive and are still taking the wait and see approach. But, I do believe they deserve some of the criticism they are getting in the forums.
     
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  36. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They have to build up good revenue first, by giving out DLCs to gain money to be used for time to go back and fix the problems. Remember, as MCGermanyFan said, DTG is not a AAA company.
     
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  37. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I don't see it your way - There is plenty of DLC in X-plane, Prepar3d and FSX that don't just "work" and they have varying level of sophistication, realism, fit and finish. -- I have been an extensive simulation fan for over 30 years - all go through growing pains - Yes TSW is their baby and they are still developing their environment on the UR4 engine - And as with any development process in software - it goes through an evolutionary process.

    So bottom line - we will have to just agree to disagree. As with FSX, TS2018 X-Plane11 and Prepar3d - I am in for the long haul since if in the first six months to a year of those simulations I was a critical of those as many are of TSW and walked away - I would have missed out on programs that have matured to be great simulation platforms.
     
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  38. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Member

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    It's ok to disagree, and thanks for your thoughts on the topic. I have also been simming for 30+ years. It's just past the first year and approaching 18 months now. And with the poor communication we get for the company many of us have to come to our own conclusions on certain topics. thanks again
     
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  39. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Member

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    Yes, this is correct but those DLC were not sold with PZB as a feature in the game like RT. Which does not work, so there is a big difference.
     
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  40. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Active Member

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    Many critical DTG (I am part of it), not for their bugged DLC, but for their non-existent communication.
    They do not respond to any of the comments or the many problems expressed here.
    On this subject, I find no excuse for them.
    They fired James to put another one that is as absent as the sun in winter.
    After, the manges -merde will tell us to go on Discord ..... Mat this !!! Matt that ....
    Matt, he just has to come and talk here. This is their forum, no!

    Excuse the translation, it's Goggle.
     
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  41. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    All valid points - not disputing them, But since I want to find answers to many of the questions which are not being provided here, then I go to the Discord server, watch the live streams and pay attention to the chats to garner the information I desire.

    Not going to argue if it should be that way or not - have learned from life experience that in many situations the phrase “It is what it is!” comes to play. Anyway I hope we all have the same desire to see TSW succeed and develop into the best simulation it can be — probably the only thing we have a minor tiff is on how long that will be and what our patience levels are. Anyway - best to all in this thread
     
  42. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

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    I still love playing TS2018, it's really good in general. TSW is a brand new development, but I think many fans are looking too much at things we did not (yet) get and we forget about all the new stuff, like first person mode, the ability to create scenario's with non-liean gameplay (though we cannot do this ourselves), the highly detailed graphics, service mode (though dull now, but as soon as we can create our own content, you may see a lot of fancy new services, I'm sure), the highly detailed simulation of e.g. the couplers, we can have winter without snow, the windmills resonding to amount of wind set and more like this.

    A lot is not there, but don't see TS2018 and TSW as oppositional things where you need to choose. I play them both with a lot of joy, even though the bugs and lack of responsivemness of DTG to issues.
     
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  43. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Service mode isn’t dull.
     
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  44. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They talk to us on Discord.
     
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  45. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Active Member

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    Yes, I know Anthony.
    But why not here.
    For me who is obliged to put everything on Goggle translation, it is more practical here than on Discord.

    It's still the official forum here!
     
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  46. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It does seem odd to advertise on in the game to join Dovetail Live to ‘join the discussion’ to then come to these forums to get very little response from the developers.

    In fact you’ll get more activity from the developers on an unofficial server chat (Discord) than you would on here.
     
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  47. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    As I stated before - “It is what it is” with respect to current communications - whether it should be or not is what i would call a philosophical discussion.

    In view of this situation - it is nice to be able to have access like Discord though I can certainly understand the difficulty of having to use Google translate in such a venue.

    Maybe what could help the situation is when someone who has the capabiliity to follow Discord and live streams and reports back in these forums what information they have gleaned we should refrain from berating them and starting anew the discussions that this is the official forums and DTG should provide that inform here - Instead take the information presented as information we didn’t have before. We are the community and as such can help each other.
     
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  48. TrainSim-Luke

    TrainSim-Luke Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone

    As you probably know, I'm the new Trains community manager. Jay wasn't fired, as some of you seem to think he was.

    I do my best to keep an eye on everything. There's these forums, the Steam forums, twitter, facebook, discord... for both TSW and TS18.
    Please do not confuse silence with ignoring. Serious issues brought to my attention are given the attention they need, but there simply isn't enough time in the day for me to respond personally to every single message. One of the joys of a forum is other members are able to answer questions and spread information that we give out, saving me the need to answer these things every time they come up.

    Because I have so much to keep an eye on, while doing the other aspects of my job, it's possible that I miss the occasional post. If there's something you really REALLY need a DTG response to, you can contact me directly at any time to bring my attention to it.
     
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  49. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Member

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    I will try to keep an open mind, but when you delete valid comments here and in the Steam forums and you call people and their comments "cliche" in the Steam forums you make this task difficult.
     
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  50. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    But it’s true.
     
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