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Tsw: “oh Canada!”

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've seen the reports, and the thread* at:

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/tsw-switching-in-the-subdivision.20694/

    And it's lookiing pretty bad, after all. Every single time I give DTG the chance of the benefit of the doubt (and a little bit of moral support).... it seems to end in disappointment. It's like climbing a tree to save a nervous cat, then handing the cat over to the owner, and the owner then shooting you with a twelve bore for spoiling his cat-torture fun.

    If those tracks are not accessible... then that makes the advertising blurb even more ridiculous than I previously thought.

    Well, I certainly won't be buying this OSD route for a very long time (if at all) and certainly not until the DB BR 155 is fixed so that it works on RSN - the route that it was specifically (originally) created for.

    *NB: I also agree with your post on the other thread - really - what was the point in building out those yards if you can't use them? Although I think that I can guess.... it was probably just very easy to do it very quickly, and cover a wide area.... meaninglessly....

    FFS - the least they could have done, if those yards were designed to be non-functional, would be to barrier them off at the boundary, and not allow a sim kick-out.... ;-O

    Aaaaaarrrgggghhhhh.........!!!!
     
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  2. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    I just got the route and it's pretty bad in my opinion. It's easily the worst route I've played in TSW. The quality control is absolutely terrible, some of the physics are broken, the switching (in my opinion) is no fun at all, and the sounds are absolutely terrible. Along with that, the route itself really doesn't look that great and I'm pretty sure DTG didn't even bother to reskin the boxcar, and as a result the only livery I've seen it wearing is the old CSX one. I got a refund on this junk. Please keep in mind that this is my opinion, but it is turning out to be a bit of a mess.
     
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  3. BNSF650

    BNSF650 Member

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    This is junk! Matt and the team should had listen to us but they care not to. All they care about is money. Well your not getting mine for one why did they use old Railworks sounds? TSW will never make it ...
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Oh my word. I had this in the back of my mind that some of the yard areas might not be accessible but from what I read now here and on the other thread is a lot worse than I expected. I've been a bit dubious of all the complaining before the route was released and have been waiting to hear about it from people who get the route before committing to purchasing it. I can't really afford it at the moment anyway.

    There's a lot of work involved in building a consist and setting your route, and although that kind of gameplay is not really my cup of tea, I've done a bit of that in NEC's free roam scenario. I would be livid if I'd gone to all that trouble in Canada and set off towards the docks or wherever only to be kicked out of the game without warning at the edge of the represented area. I'm hoping it's not supposed to be that way and it's just a bug and full access to those areas will be allowed, as suggested by the map in the manual. If it's by design then that really is too much to handle.

    I'll see how this develops and for now keep my wallet closed. Such a shame.
     
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  5. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    ñot good route
     
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  6. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    How do you turn off just the floating marker?
     
  7. ghall59

    ghall59 Active Member

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    CTRL+1 will remove the distance and plonk it in the top left corner out the way. The others also work with CTRL+ number buttons, give them a try and if they don't give the desired result repeat the entry and it will restore.
     
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  8. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!
     
  9. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Why do they keep that a secret? It really should be in the menu. Is there a way to keep objective distances in miles instead of converting to yards when you get close? I find that extremely annoying and I've overran stops multiple times because of it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  10. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    When does the distance display in feet? For imperial, I've only ever seen miles and yards.
     
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  11. Manclion

    Manclion Well-Known Member

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    There is a free roam as long as you stay in a certain area!
    Have you any idea of how stupid that sounds?
    Take your rose tinted dtg glasses off just for a change, your constant defending and making excuses for dtg is really boring. I'm sure they can defend themselves if they could be bothered.
     
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  12. I just donated 50 euros to a kennel near my City.
    Thanks to DTG I now know how to make the best use of my money.;)
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well he has been getting a lot of stick for merely passing on information which is in the public domain if people wanted to hear it themselves. Then there was the "mickey taking" thread which was started
    The constant rehashed moaning on nearly every thread by the same people is getting equally boring!
     
  14. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Pecoraro and his kind are a joke at this point in time. DTG almost literally selling only half the DLC that was promised, and what is there doesn't work too decently either (as usual), quite possibly making themselves guilty of false advertising, and they're still defending. I'm lost for words.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Getting personal....classy!

    Why can't some people handle the fact that some people merely enjoy the sim!
     
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  16. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Because that's not what they do. And let's face it, your side isn't exactly settling on people most definitely not enjoying the "sim" either, is it?
     
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  17. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Oh we are different sides are we, I can't believe you are trying to turn it into some kind of tribal dispute?! I am not on any side and neither do I want to be, people have every right to voice their opinions either way, it is just getting very tedious on these forums when nearly every thread seems to be turned into the same argument by the same people.
     
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  18. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    I meant yards lol.
     
  19. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    I second this
     
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  20. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The information isn't in the public domain, it's info posted by Matt Peddlesden in a private Discord, which you may or may not be approved to join.

    You say the moaning is rehashed, however it's DTG who provide the fodder. They've just released a DLC which the marketing team sold as being full of industrial trackage with detailed scenery which players could explore. It turns out the majority of the trackage around the yard/harbor is not accessible to the player and the scenery isn't finished. It's not surprising people are complaining about it and requesting refunds.
     
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  21. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Careful, I got an unfriendly PM from the admins for that ;)
     
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  22. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I'd have to say that I agree with theorganist - regarding "sides" - I think everyone has one thing in common - everyone here loves trains. And that is a fabulous thing to see. There's nothing quite like the gentle atmosphere of five thousand fans at a depot open day, with everyone from ages 8 to 80 looking at trains... ;-)

    As for me, personally, I just want DTG to succeed in producing a very lovely train simulator. You can do that by providing frank feedback, and you can do it by praising what you see and encouraging them. Both are valid approaches. I do both - as loudly as I can. I'd prefer to just do the praising and wowing, but if you do this when things are utterly wrong then, like any real-world business, they'll aim for a lower standard.

    People should remember that these forums are read by people aged between eight and eighty. And I have never seen, at a depot open day, an adult or child, start to pick on someone else that is bubbling with enthusiasm for a subject that they both love.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  23. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Uh oh. I really wish people would respect opinions instead of saying that we "love to complain." I mean I know I complain a lot but my standards for TSW stuff have been lowered so unless for me the new addon looks even worse that this trash I'll have something good to say about it.
     
  24. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    My theory is that DTG ran out of time to complete the harbor area. I think their original plan was to build all of it.
    I do like the route overall. The scenarios are long and engaging, the scenery is very nice, and the ethanol loading is lots of fun.
     
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  25. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Well they advertised "countless yards," and that isn't a reality. Also, isn't the ethanol loading broken or did they fix that?
     
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  26. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    What’s broken about it? Works fine for me.
     
  27. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    If that was the case DTG should have made an announcement explaining what content was missing and what they were planning to do to correct the situation (reducing the price or adding the scenery in an update etc.)

    By not saying anything they have left a lot of people upset and feeling as though DTG were abusing their trust to make a sale. In addition to this DTG are likely breaking the law in the UK, where we have very strict consumer protection laws. They also rely on government subsidies which could be withdrawn if they are found to have broken the law. It's a bad situation to put customers in, as well as the employees at DTG.

    Anyone with a small amount of common sense could have predicted this would happen, so for the DTG management to go ahead with the release without addressing the issues, is in my opinion, either gross incompetence or a deliberate attempt to fleece customers.
     
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  28. Manclion

    Manclion Well-Known Member

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    Instead of bloody theories why don't DTG respond on their own forum and explain the reasoning, silence on their part speaks a thousand words.
    Let's just put our heads in the sand and pretend everything is OK while Rome burns around us.
     
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  29. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I haven't got the route and am unlikely to do so, so I can't comment, I haven't seen loads of people complaining or being upset though, only a few on here, there are also some who seem very happy with it, I am sure their views will be discarded.

    However if there are unfinished areas which users were promised would be complete then that is un-desireable, if that is indeed the case.

    Still I imagine you were very excited typing this post being able to accuse DTG of breaking the law and bringing their government subsidy into the argument again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  30. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Okay - I generally agree with your post regarding OSD, and I am sad about the situation.... but I just thought I'd check on the bit extracted above....

    Are you sure about the bit I've extracted/quoted above...? Subsidies...? You also often use the word "handout" quite a bit. These words tend to imply that DTG is getting Government funds... in the form of cash, or some sort of grant. But I don't think that this is true.. Do you know this to be true....?

    Subsidy/ handout/ money/ cash - these words cannot be used inter-changeably with "tax relief"...

    If you are referring to VGTR - Video Games Tax Relief - then that's not a handout. That's a tax relief - an incentive. And I think BFI set the cultural standards that apply for companies that qualify for VGTR - and DTG, with respect to TS20xx and TSW, would certainly qualify. They are practically making a UK heritage cultural product. I genuinely can't think of a better example for VGTR... It's a well-deserved incentive.
     
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  31. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    You are right and maybe we all need to take a step back, we are all lovers of trains in their various and different forms.

    I also want to see them succeed and there are many things I think could or should be done better, but I get plenty of enjoyment out of it as do many others.

    However, I think if I felt so angry about them and TSW as some on here seem to be, I would just uninstall it and call it a day and just keep an eye on developments and see how it looked in the future. I certainly wouldn't buy more than two add-ons, decide they are useless and DTG are a bunch of cowboys then keep buying more add-ons!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  32. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    I've heard people saying that it wasn't possible to load them, I guess it was console-exclusive or fixed.
     
  33. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    My guess is that there are two things going on here:

    1. This Forum is basically a super/hyper concentrated venue for train enthusiasts
    2. Most people that actually write anything are the most passionate subset of the above

    Oh and....

    3. When the hyperbole from DTG is so loud and ridiculous, you do have to challenge it...loudly.... when it doesn't deliver on its promises

    "Less is more" (except for my posts...LOL... ;-) )

    OSD aside.... TSW is still an utterly fabulous product, and yes... it.... "is still have a great future".... (or whatever that thread was called...)
     
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  34. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Unless youre looking for a precise item of information internet forums tend to be echo chambers. Two or three common views or opinions coalesce and the medley of contributions therafter reflect or echo those two or three views. This forum is not different ;)
    As a Consumer Im looking for evidence of ongoing improvement in the Product. On this latest DLC based on this thread, insufficient information exists to make a decision either way, and our individual shopping list is obviously a factor in our decision making process.
    Skybox, sun reflections through the cab roof and overcast sky, passenger clothing appearance and demographic makeup, sounds. Core issues that I will need to see evidence of improvement on before I buy more product. Not an ideological or loyalty based view, just a consumer decision.
     
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  35. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Lol yeah. I can really see those people getting in contact with DTG and making it so that any remotely negative comment about DTG or their products or anything like that gets automatically removed or censored.
     
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  36. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    I think almost everyone here enjoys train simulator to some degree, otherwise we wouldn't be here in the first place. The unfortunate reality is that TSW has almost zero competition at this point in time. It's competitors, TS1, Run8, Trainz, Zusi, ect. all lack the visual fidelity that TSW offers or is more limited in scope. This leaves DTG's TSW as the only alternative to those wanting a good balance of visual fidelity and acceptable simulation. I can't speak for everyone, but I want to continue driving modern commuter trains in Unreal Engine, and TSW is the only outlet for that at this point in time for me to indulge my hobby.


    The state that this route released in reflects very poorly on the simulator as is the recent trend where routes are releasing with numerous bugs, such as East Coastway. I never planned on buying this DLC anyways since I am not a fan of pure freight operations, but I followed the release closely since it may paint a picture on the level of quality the next DLC has. If DTG is not held accountable for the misleading scope of the Industrial Yards, how can we have confidence they won't pull something like this in the next DLC? We have already seen the level of quality that they are capable of in routes such as Peninsula Corridor and Ruhr Sieg Nord, which is why it is disappointing to many of us this released in the state that it did.


    Your conspiracy that there are a faction of people here who want to see this simulator fail is ludicrous. People just expect DLCs to release with minimal amounts of bugs, and if there are bugs, that they be fixed as quick as possible, not neglected like the signalling that has been broken in NEC since release, or flange sounds still having issues for 3 months now on ECW. Not to mention in this specific case, the manual for the route map is just flat out misleading. The bottom line is, If this simulator fails then we are all out of luck since there is no replacement for it, so it is in our best interest to ensure that DLCs are held to an acceptable standard, and if they aren't, then they will be fixed and updated upon until they do.
     
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  37. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. The concept for TSW is excellent, I absolutely love that you can get out and walk around, but it's more of a "jack of all trades," if you will, in that it doesn't do anything particularly well. The modelling is excellent, but the sky and render distance are poor, and the driving is really just okay and nothing special, while the ability to walk around is amazing. If DTG just put more time into the quality control and made some tweaks like fixing the sky and improving the physics, sounds and load distances the game would be amazing and it would have the possibility of eclipsing TS20 as my favorite train sim. Right now TSW feels more like a work in progress, or even a proof of concept at times, rather than a full game, and we're stuck with that for the time being. The bugs really detract from what I'd come to expect with TSW. On paper it's excellent, but the bugs and mediocre to nonexistent quality control really bring the whole thing down. Maybe in the future a smaller developer will come out with something to rival TSW. If they did it right TSW would have some serious competition, just like Train Simulator and Trainz were competing back in the day.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  38. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant post - I absolutely agree with everything that you have said.

    I sometimes wonder if DTG is actually fully "self-aware" - if you know what I mean. It's almost like they have never ever played any other computer game in their lives, or ever met a customer... it's quite baffling.
     
  39. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    I think for the sky and the sounds, they are stuck with their UE4 version.
    And I don't think they will upgrade to a newer version.
     
  40. AlexNL

    AlexNL Well-Known Member

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    The Train Sim Community Discord server is open for everyone to join, it's even been promoted by DTG on Twitter not too long ago. You don't need to be approved to join.
     
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  41. niveous

    niveous Member

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    The recycled sounds are one thing, yet the sound mixing is horrible. It's almost as if whomever is doing the mixing has never been inside, or even watched a few youtube videos. There is so little consistency across locomotives, it's like winning the lottery when you do get something that sounds great.

    Why is it toggle switches, throttle, reverser noises are way louder than they should be, yet making a brake pipe reduction is barely audible (gp9rm), or completely non-existant (mp36ph-3c). On other models such as the bombardier cabcar, gallery cab car and even the f40ph for the most part sound close to accurate.

    It's sad that a little more effort could make this game (yes game, certainly not a simulator by any stretch) at least 10x more enjoyable.
     
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  42. niveous

    niveous Member

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    If only we had things like railway museums and such...
     
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  43. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Its a shame. As well as audio recordings from other people. They would be nice to have.
     
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  44. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    So guys - does anyone have a definitive answer yet, for what the following phrase means:

    "serving the nearly countless lineside industries along the line"

    I want to know what "nearly countless" means, explicitly. So, is there anyone out there, that has tried the OSD DLC, that knows the answer.... how many industries do you actually get to serve...?
     
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  45. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean the real definition or what DTG defines it.

    Real answer would be what ever is modeled in game should be accessible in game.

    DTG's definition is only what we want you to have access to everything else is just for show.
     
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  46. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Legally it would fall down to what's a reasonable expectation someone would have reading that in the context it's presented. I would guess a judge would find somewhere around 20 industries would be reasonable. If NTP was advertised as 'having nearly countless stations along the route,' would you feel that 17 stations was sufficient to meet that description or would you have expected a lot more? I think I'd be content with 17 stations on a TSW route described that way.
     
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  47. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    No no no... it doesn't have to be this complex - just a list - so to start off:

    1. Ethanol plant
    2. Car plant/factory

    Are there any more industries, in OSD, where you pull up to rail-head, and pick up a load, or drop it off. Are there any more than two...?

    Does "nearly countless" mean "two".....?

    How many industrial sites do you actually visit - and serve... in the OSD DLC? I am expecting a very high number that is difficult count to.
     
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  48. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    There are several loading facilities in there that you can go to. More than I was expecting.
     
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  49. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    It's Monday did DTG say anything at all?
     
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  50. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Can you list the different industries that you were able to serve...? I've only got two in the list so far... how many more of them are there, and what are they...?
     
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