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Tsw: Switching In The Subdivision!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. TrainSim-James

    TrainSim-James Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    Experience complex mainline freight, local, transfer and switching operations with Train Sim World: Canadian National Oakville Subdivision which is available now!

    READ MORE
     
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  2. Adam Palmer

    Adam Palmer Member

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    This route is a dud. I think that Train Sim World has lost its way and reneged on the promises of a supposedly hyper-realistic simulator with this route. The GP9RM sounds are recycled from Kuju and the same goes for the GP38-2's horn, recycled off the original Kuju SD40. Not to mention the absence of any Via Rail or GoTransit equipment or even a mainline CN locomotive.

    While the team was in California getting sounds for CalTrain they should've taken a side trip to Niles Canyon and taken some audio from the GP9 they have there and used that. That would have made for a much better use of time, and company costs, though I'm not an expert in that field. I honestly have no idea what possessed the development team to recycle sounds from Kuju of all places. KUJU!!!

    Let me tell you: I don't know jack about video game development let alone simulation development but at the very least I, having gone to California to record CalTrain would have, knowing that there is another route in development making use of a GP9, would have taken the time to record a proper prime mover and movement sounds, Niles Canyon is like maybe half an hour from CEMOF by car, I just don't understand the logic.

    I hope that the bashing this route gets will teach DTG a lesson in quality control, though judging from past releases that likely won't happen. I sure as hell won't be purchasing this route, not until the sounds are up to par with the original stated mission of Train Sim World.

     
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  3. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    It seems that many parts of the yard are not accessible, is this true? :o

    upload_2020-2-20_20-50-22.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  4. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Very good work DTG. It makes so much fun to explore the giant yards and industrial areas. I also enjoy to see the Bayview area. It's nice to open the aitoracks at Oakville carplant and to see that there are cars inside. And like I said earlier, the only thing that could be added later is an american heavy freight loco.

    Thank you very much for this new route and this article.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  5. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Did you took a loco in "Hamilton Explorer" and tried it to explore that area completely?
     
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  6. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    Yes just confirmed. You get this and back to the main menu when driving a loco through one of those zones. Which are almost half of the yard...
    20200220211251_1.jpg
     
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  7. USRailFan007

    USRailFan007 Well-Known Member

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    I can attest to that. Got kicked to the Main Menu w/ the "End of represented Area" message... trying to explore the "FREE ROAM" yards. Can't go too far north within them, apparently. DTG... What in the heck...

    Should've known it was too good to be true, when we laid our eyes on that switching trackage.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  8. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Knowing that TSW has no Editor for the foreseeable future, what's the logic of spending hundreds of development hours creating all that track, only for it not to be used by any services? It just seems like a very wasteful method of development. If the trackage isn't going to be used by services, why is it included?

    To top it off, one of the big selling points and a response to the criticism of the short length was that the route had all those tracks around the harbor. If they're not accessible, then that's really appalling.
     
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  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    With TS1, stuff like bland scenery, extensions, fixes to the route and other things were easily available to do thanks to the editor and passion and enthusiasm of the community. So if the route is poor, you can improve it yourself and make things look and feel better.

    TSW is totally locked out, so if DTG delivers a poor route, that’s all you’re getting. Which seems to be the case with this DLC.

    A leopard never changes its spots and all that....
     
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  10. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    I was really looking forward to exploring all that track... now it may not be worth the full price to me. :(
     
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  11. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Given the feedback so far (on not being able to access the freight yards.....), I would now suggest you put a dollar-value on your time, and if you do that, then maybe the route won't have a value at any price at all....

    Right - well thank you to everyone else for taking a risk, stumping up the cash, and putting in some time to check this route out - you have all saved me a great deal of time and money.....
     
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  12. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    That screenshot that Trenomarcus posted was mine, i tried to access that areas with the camera and locomotive... in the middle section you can go with the camera but all other areas you will get an "end of session" same when you drive with the loco into it.

    I am very disappointed and i will refund this DLC, not with me DTG!

    And also you need to correct the manual, because in the manual the complete yard area is marked as "player accessible". Unbenannt.JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  13. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    CN2.png

    The evidence in this thread certainly goes against the "reach out and touch them" theme on the Steam store page.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  14. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Anthony, is there any response from Matt on this?
     
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  15. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    This gets more horrific by the minute.

    This is the sort of mis-selling that can get a title de-listed from Steam (by sheer weight of refund requests). I guess we won't see any manuals in the future... just in case they include evidence as strong as this....

    I also note that the legal frameworks of most developed countries provide redress for situations that involve mis-selling, and without prejudice to a future Court's decsion, I suspect that this could all be construed as mis-selling. DTG had better act promptly with respect to refund requests.
     
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  16. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 New Member

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    Hi,
    I hope that this is an error by dtg and not intentional.
    I am hoping that someone at dtg has made an error regarding the player accessible area and that a fix will be forthcoming shortly
    Mike.
     
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  17. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    You pc guys are fortunate to be able to get refunds. I really hope the above isn't true. I have had nothing but issues with it today as it is
     
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  18. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    I just got a refund from steam... it took about 1 hour and a half.
     
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  19. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    More to the point, why isn't it used by services? Why not add in a bunch more scenarios with different end points all around these industrial zones so you really can service the countless industries? If you're advertising the huge industrial coverage as the main selling point, and the justification for the short route, the least you could do is actually make it accessible! Baffling that they've included the free-roam mode which doesn't let you free roam - presumably you don't even get a warning that you're about to go out of area either?

    Screenshot 2020-02-20 at 21.39.39.png

    Any feeling as to whether some of this could be opened up further with a later update? It's not like those tracks are going off somewhere and they needed to choose a cut-off point - they literally end in the industrial zone - makes perfect sense to allow the trains right to the end for exploring, unless they're experiencing some sort of technical issue that they need to resolve first.
     
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  20. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    On PC at least, Steam will give a no-strings refund so long as you make the request within 14 days of purchase and have played it for less than 2 hours; If you're outside of those terms, then there is a good chance you'll still get a refund in an instance like this anyway, although it'll take a bit longer.
     
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  21. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    PS4 Refunds - I am fairly sure that you can get refunds on PS4. When you purchase an item you should get a receipt sent to the email registered with your profile - that email will probably point you to the refund process....(it should*)

    *let me know if you try this and have problems, and I'll look into it for you
     
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  22. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Agree totally - all you need, if you actually need to prove a case, in extremis, is:

    - a copy of the map in the manual
    - a video grab of the in-game map and the boot out

    It's a no-brainer. A bunch of railway experts that have developed railway simulators for 14 years can hardly claim that the map (posted above) wasn't absolutely clear (but wrong). Also - that map is presumably made available before purchase decisions are taken.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  23. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I do not understand why they would have boasted up the expanse switching and yard duties, if good chunks of the yard are off limits this does not make sense.
     
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  24. ShodanCat

    ShodanCat Member

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    That's why TSW is such an awful platform for a switching-focused route. With the very limited number of included scenarios and services, you'll never get to use a lot of the route. What is the point? At least in TS2020 you can usually find some workshop scenarios to pad it out a bit, or make your own.
     
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  25. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 New Member

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    That’s why I hope this is a mistake/bug and gets sorted soon.
     
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  26. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Can we get an official response here DTG?
     
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  27. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    For avoidance of doubt, the only "Not Player Accessible" sections of route are at the top left hand side ("West"), as can be seen in this English version of the map:

    OSD map English (Steam 20 Feb 20).jpg
     
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  28. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    I bought the Mp36 loco instead of this for a reason. And trust me it may be a loco but it is worth it than this
     
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  29. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely feels like an error. Will be interesting to see what DTG have to say on the matter.
     
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  30. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    This was an opportunity for DTG to showcase what they could do with TSW - so much opportunity here.... But no...

    ....the DLC that they specifically marketed as accessible happens to make its key features...... largely inaccessible....

    Utter Madness.
     
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  31. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yea..... Ill pass on this route
     
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  32. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Lol, so now the route is out and everybody's requesting refunds, even some people who had hope for the route before. This is priceless! :D
     
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  33. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be taking some pleasure in this. My feelings are more of disappointment. Not because I was ever going to buy the route but more in terms of TSW's prospects. Very disheartening.
     
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  34. bobsr

    bobsr Member

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    I own every route, and loco for this Sim. However, since looking at the reviews, for this, and, DTG not being truthful, about this route, even though the map clearly shows what can, and cannot be accessed on this route. I will refund it. Sadly, this is the first time that I will ask for an refund.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  35. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Well... apart from pictures...the manual also says:

    "Hamilton is a beehive of railroading activity, home to multiple yard complexes, connecting point with CN’s Grimsby Subdivision, and host to the Port of Hamilton’s massive and bustling Industrial Sector that is laced with active rail lines and sidings."

    This term "industrial Sector" is highlighted on the map. These sidings must surely be accessible, so if player reports are true (and there is no reason to doubt them), then what DTG has done, intentionally or not, with planning or not, and with testing or not, is very very not good.
     
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  36. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Yeaaaaah I regret my purchase I’m feeling TSW is slowly dying
     
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  37. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    You might struggle with PSN depending on how they define "faulty", but it certainly seems like a case of mis-selling if those areas defined in the manual as user accessible actually aren't.
     
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  38. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I’m sure the policy is once downloaded you’re basically stuffed.

    Edit: ah yes just seen this above
     
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  39. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    This always got me excited, but to see where we are now is a bit disappointing. Even watching it again, it's just amazing but... It's not what it used to be, hell even the graphics looked better.
     
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  40. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    do they still use speed tree?
     
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  41. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    Same way with TVL, which is what i was afraid of. A whole lot of rails, that do jack schnitzle

    Cant win em all i guess



    Post script: this is starting to feel like the amtrak switcher add on all over again. Ok 'looking'just nothing to really do

    Spent only and hr in OSD today, but i wasnt terribly thrilled. Tomorrow's another day, digging deeper live via TTV
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  42. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    How did the announcement say again? "The yard is virtually a route in itself"?

    Except you can't drive it. Or at least walk it. I guess ununstalling TSW was the right decision then... what you're doing there is borderline false advertising, folks. If not more than that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  43. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    But that isn’t the only bug in this route. Someone on Xbox live said they had a glitch with the ethanol loading introduction on which the pump hose didn’t stay attached and went back to its original position when the player looked away:(
     
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  44. 7orenz

    7orenz Active Member

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    From train point to target point are exactly 2 km of ultra-detailed route.

    Train Sim World® 2020-02-21 04-40-07.png

    Train Sim World® 2020-02-21 04-44-39.png

    And the Dlc launch price is 29.99 euro instead of 39.99 (standard dlc price). Do you think RRO (for example) is so large if compared to CNOS playable map? I dont know the DTG plans, but maybe they will use the unplayable part (very small to be honest) for the next freigh add-on: I suppose some new scenario and duties, and a new (not reskin or/and upgrade) locomotive/s.
    Upgrade are always welcome, but for free.

    I respect all the opinions and undestand also a part of your delusion for the missed expectation but I believe this sort of "mass riot" its a bit excessive because this is Train Sim World and not PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds (ultra enhanced version) map.

    Train Sim World® 2020-02-21 06-45-26.png

    And as every TSW Dlc, also this route is reproduced with impressive realistic (real area) details, like buildings, bridges, highways (QEW?), town skylines, landscapes (did you noticed the Niagara escarpment on the south of Hamilton?), rural areas, iconic landmarks, and colours palette used (for example for generic houses and traffic in the area). Did you seen something of similar in a Train Simulator videogames?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  45. bytownrailwayman

    bytownrailwayman New Member

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    I managed to escape out of bounds with the freecam to explore the 'Inaccessible' Zones. The tracks are there, but are covered over with scenery, terrain, and structures in practically all of the restricted areas. Thus it is my conclusion that the restricted area borders are not accidental, and that the tracks we see in the map and on the pre-release stream were not intended to be accessed. I will leave it up to speculation as to why these tracks were laid in the first place, if they didn't make it into the final release. This, combined with the Kuju sounds, has left impressions of an unfinished product on me, and sours what in my opinion is an otherwise decent urban freight route.

    Edit to add images: The images below are from sectors J and H.

    20200221013955_1.jpg 20200221014127_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  46. michael.j.meliambro

    michael.j.meliambro Member

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    Dovetail, PLEASE fix this ASAP.
     
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  47. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    This route is for me, as fan of switchng and local run a great addon. Some things could be done better (GP38-2 cab, more CN freight cars) but I'm satisfied with my first actions at Oakville subdivision.
    Hope, that locked industial sectors will be open soon and some CN loco addon also.
     
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  48. giogurto_grande

    giogurto_grande Active Member

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    Unbelievable. I'm done.
     
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  49. ales.hnyk

    ales.hnyk Member

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    Many players are eager to extend existing routes. This may be the way. Disclose half and then with great fanfare to sell again, as an extension.
     
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  50. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    I doubt we will see an extension to this route. I refunded this DLC, for me this a scam.

    Imagine this, you did read the manual seeing the complete harbor area as player accessible and then play the tutorials, do 1 or 2 scenarios maybe a service from Oakville to Hamilton. Then after 2 hour playtime you start the Hamilton explorer scenario and you register only half of the area is accessible, now you can't refund it on steam anymore as your 2 hour refund window is gone.

    I am glad I first checked the port area and did refund it in time... Nice try DTG! Get your money with an honest way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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