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Tsw: “oh Canada!”

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    I've seen at least one forum member repeatedly citing Dovetail's getting increasingly more efficient at building routes, thus being able to bring us longer/bigger routes within their supposed development timeframes. They only had to make one new loco as well as a livery for this route, too, so even more time saved that can be spent on the rest of the route!

    WSR is nearly as long as this route, and had two brand new locos, but is sold for a significantly lower price for some reason.
     
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  2. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    A371209C-38C8-46E3-8CB5-16B85615FA4E.jpeg C187EE50-A892-4427-ADE2-6455EE796CD8.jpeg
    Names blocked out for privacy. Something to think about! Sounds really awesome to me!
     
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  3. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Y'know what? I'm out. I've stuck with TSW out of hope it would get better in the future. Since this is not happening... I can as well uninstall it. uninstalled.JPG
     
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  4. BjornGroen02NL

    BjornGroen02NL Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm, I haven't lost my trust in DTG completely yet, and this looks promising... I hope we will get something in the future that is worth the money. I'm actually far more excited about this what Matt said which is noting more than 3 sentences than this entire route, lol
     
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  5. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    I stopped buying DLC awhile back because of this.
     
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  6. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I think when it boils down to it, you can’t make assumptions as to how much work went into a route or locomotive until you have been apart of the creation process. All we have seen is some pictures and a description. Once you have either ran the route yourself or watched a video of someone running it, I think it’s hard to judge by the little we have seen.
     
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  7. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    i would definitely like to see a locomotive for the Lirr and some Ireland routes which would be cool.
     
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  8. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Well then, there better be a loco add-on for this route later this year. As I'm fine with doing Local/Switcher runs with a GP9, but they're better be a Loco worthy for this route indeed or I ain't getting it for this route at all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  9. BjornGroen02NL

    BjornGroen02NL Well-Known Member

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    +1
     
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  10. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry, is this DTG’s way of saying “Here’s your predicted North American heavy haul freight route”? Not much “heavy haul” in it anyway.
     
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  11. Mikey_9835

    Mikey_9835 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what I think of this. As an optimist I try to find the best in things, but I get where the community is coming from.

    Yet another route that's about 20 miles long, one new train and one old one with a new lick of paint. I'm always happy for new content, but there is clearly a pattern here. DTG are intentionally making these routes half baked so that they can add more loco DLC down the line to spice it up. Which I don't think is necessarily a bad business practice, the problem is that it costs a lot of money for the consumer.

    Also due to the US/DE/UK Cycle if you don't like a US route, you would have to wait around 6 months for the next one, so it's understandable that people get impatient. Personally while I look forward to UK content more, I still enjoy US and DE content so for me the wait isn't as bad, but I get why people are frustrated.
     
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  12. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    so august let’s hope they’ll release something like Metro north or Norfolk southern.
     
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  13. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    And just 2 locos, and NO FRICKIN PASSENGER SERVICES?! Come on DTG.
     
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  14. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    dude wtf is wrong with you?
     
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  15. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I accept that for some this will be really exciting but it’s a hard no for me. On top of the reused (or redeveloped, it’s not really any different) stock, I am VERY disappointed to see yet another 20ish mile route.

    I’m done with these short routes, so I think I’m out of purchasing TSW DLC until I see some proper evidence that this sim is really moving forward. I’ve got so much of the previous DLC I haven’t touched as yet it’s time to actually play some of that, instead of buying new stuff hoping to see an improvement.

    I really hope that this is something good for those that want this sort of thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  16. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, it just that I think DTG needs to do a better job in these routes, and pay more attention to the details around and the trains there and how much traffic there is, and how much of each train we see daily.
     
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  17. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    And that we need something new for TSW, not just the same trains copied over and over.
     
  18. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Not you good sir. I'm talking about the dude who keeps saying the same 3 f'n things in every thread that has nothing to do with it.
     
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  19. Lombra

    Lombra Active Member

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    Certainly you are correct. Nevertheless it doesn't feel right when the oldest route from nearly three years ago is more than double in length.

    The loco reusage is a different issue, also. It's easy to solve and has most likely been suggested before, but there's no reason for them to do it, because it would be a net loss. (but I don't see it happening since they haven't even enabled the partial bundle discount thing on Steam, as far as I remember) I propose the following:

    • Release routes and all locos separately.
    • Create Steam bundles including the route and related locos, replacing the "route" DLCs we have today. (ie same content, same price, just it's a bundle)
    • Now people can choose not to buy locos they already have. Although come to think of it, it of course wouldn't make sense to release a loco DLC when an identical one from a previous route already exists. Still, if they release a new livery variant, one could get a discount if one already owns a different livery version.
    This creates incentive for Dovetail to actually produce new content if they want to keep charging the same amount of money. But again, there's no reason for them to do any of this, so I don't see why they would.
     
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  20. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Pathetic, 20 miles there or thereabouts is the opposite of what people want. But what we want and what DTG produce are different. They seem happy to pump out short routes whether we want them or not and still charge £24.99 for the privilege.

    I really hope this isn’t the norm from now on but I guess time will tell.

    I won’t be picking this DLC up ad I urge anyone else who isn’t happy to not buy it too, if you buy this DLC you’re telling DTG you are happy with short routes and reused locos. Don’t give them your hard earned money until they offer something you really want.
     
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  21. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    I like that new canadian route. Sure it could be longer than 24 miles and it could have something more powerful and bigger like a Gp9rm and a GP38-2. But we get a freight route with big freight yards and industrial sights for a lot of shunting action.
     
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  22. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Oakville to Hamilton on the GO train takes 44 mins which would be an okay passenger run, but not exactly long with only 4-5 stops. Would make for a welcome add-on DLC for the route, but it's a shame it's not all bundled in there from the start, and that the freight element isn't longer. I'll wait for a sale...

    What was the blue and yellow teaser about? Just a red herring?
     
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  23. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    That’s real pretty, the look of the GP9RM cab. I can’t wait to haul some freight. Canada has good taste. Can you spot the differences?!
    29E8642D-0936-4B53-9173-D5F9B1ED06F1.jpeg
     
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  24. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    It has a digital speedometer like the F 40 and the cab car from PC.
     
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  25. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    20 Miles of this doesn't seem like the $30 price tag belongs. It's one thing to rarely talk with your community but it's another to completely ignore or simply disregard what they want. You'd make so much more money if you simply deliver what the community is asking for. If you make routes that are short, reuses content and assets, and still charge the same amount of money as route that have completely new locos and cars, longer and has more replay-ability, then that's how you lose money.

    It baffles me on how you can make a "Content Suggestions & Proposals" addition to the forum, select something that was the least voted upon(or probably didn't even look there) and then make it a short route that reuses content? I'm gonna have to sit this one out yet again.
     
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  26. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Though I really dont want to, I'll probably buy it. At least its more than the NEC freight, which is the only thing keeping me to TSW.
     
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  27. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    One assumes that as this is another short route that reuses assets, DTG may have found a sweet spot for profitability? Could it be that despite all the moans on here (myself included), people are actually buying these routes?
     
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  28. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    First new route of 2020 and... everyone's up in arms already, complaining about what it isn't and what it hasn't got and how DTG do business, and some are vowing never to play TSW again and... and nobody has even seen it yet.

    I'm quite likely to complain about stuff I have bought that doesn't work properly, and I'd be right to. Complaining all the time about new stuff not being exactly what YOU want is very tiresome and achieves nothing. It's all this forum is full of and with every bit of DLC it gets worse.

    So, if you don't want this route, don't buy it, and if you don't like TSW at all then get off the forum and leave it to those who do. May I suggest TSxxxx - it's got everything you've ever wanted in it, everything you criticise TSW for not having.
     
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  29. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Active Member

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    Well at least the TSW2020 Fans in canada will have something to be happy about and a few of us non canadians as well,i think we should be careful here i don't want a canadian train fan to think where trashing CN rail,I like the look of the locos and that GP9 is a sweet looking new switching loco.Also the route length can't always be 100 miles or more it take forever to model,i'm just happy DT trying to crank of more good and hopefull only slightly buggy new content.Welcome Canada to the world of TSW2020...Let get rolling...
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  30. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Depends how quickly they drop into the sales. Peninsula Corridor finally dropped in the last PSN sale so I picked that up. Certainly wouldn't pay the full launch price for most of these.
     
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  31. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    The people who aren't moaning would be the people who don't mind spending the money on routes like this, especially if it's in their window. This game is furthering my point of being for casuals instead of a Simulator as they are trying to advertise it as. This one specifically will be "Leave point A and get to B" and when you're done with that, "Leave Point B and get to A" only except, its for 18 miles back and forth. Oh for $30 btw.
     
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  32. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Yep, probably. And as long as they're making money, they won't change.
     
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  33. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    I hope we get a heavy freight loco addon for this route in the near future. A SD70 or an GE ananloga would be perfect.
     
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  34. Gilly

    Gilly Active Member

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    Well to add my ten peneth to the discussion which to be honest is pretty much sumed up by the majority of posts already, it's not what I'm looking for.
    To be honest I'm not sure to who this is aimed at, I haven't seen threads begging for this (I'm willing to be proven wrong!!).
    I'm more than open to new routes and countries but in order to grab my attention its got to be unique or something at least different from the norm and this just isn't I'm afraid.
    Looks like wargamming get my gaming budget this month sadly, HMS Belfast here I come....
     
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  35. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well technically I did suggest this very route:
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/lakeshore-west-line-toronto-hamilton.19075/

    Except I didn't have just half of it in mind...
     
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  36. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Eh... it's a bit... short for that. This isn't really a great route for mainline running, unless it was lonnger, which it could have been.

    I'm starting to warm up to this slightly- it's still disappointing and not worth the money, and I am NOT paying that much for it- but I'm starting to think it works without the other traffic. It's just a nice little switching route, kind of along the lines of TVL. WAY overpriced, but sounds fun. I don't think it will be a bad route, it just isn't enough content to justify the full price (ESPECIALLY with the lazy rolling stock)
     
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  37. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I have no interest in this route myself, TSW could really do with a distant scenery upgrade as well as an overall graphical update.

    One thing I always notice on new routes, with no change whatsoever, is this;

    It’s embarrassing to see a random tree way in the distance with no depth of field and full clarity. Trees in general look odd in TSW. They stick out like a sore thumb compared to the scenery around them as they are generally so green looking, like someone has turned the saturation and vibrancy up to the max.

    Shadows are another big issue in TSW too, as they pop in right in front of you and don’t always look or behave right.

    Also don’t get me started on that abysmal looking skybox, with its 2D looking clouds...
     
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  38. deki32

    deki32 Active Member

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    You summed it up pretty well. Some will moan about it, some will love more freight action. Welcome aboard CN and Canada ;). Cheers
     
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  39. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Funny thing, this is the third DLC in a row (or at least something very close) that is picking up a suggestion of mine. I once proposed Hagen to Cologne, (we got Hagen to Wuppertal), then Brighton to Portsmouth/Southampton/Littlehampton/Bognor Regis (we got Brighton to Eastbourne/Seaford) and now this.
     
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  40. Gilly

    Gilly Active Member

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    Granted, as I said I'll accept I could easily be wrong on that!
    As you've said yourself it's only a 'snapshot' of the proposal you suggested. I guess they listened partially to you!!
    I guess one of us is 50% happy....
     
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  41. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Can't always be 100 miles? Well, can't always be 30 miles rather...

    Can we get the downvotes back, please?
     
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  42. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    Time has already spoken. This is the 3rd route in a row where it is short distance (RRO and ECW), and it doesn't seem like anything is changing. I think at this point we should expect short routes of this caliber moving forward unfortunately. I do think the length excuse is a bit more valid this time considering the yard is relatively massive, and there will be some good freight shunting action for those who are interested in that.


    For those of you who are optimistic about passenger rolling stock, I'd suggest you temper/completely remove your expectations. There is no VIA Rail branding or GO Branding on any of the passenger stations, leading me to assume that they did not procure the necessary licenses to do so. Maybe in the future there can be a route extension giving us Union Station to Hamilton as an add-on to this DLC, but for the time being, I think we can safely assume there will no passenger services provided any time soon. For passenger enthusiasts, this DLC can be a safe skip.


    Very disappointing though considering this would have been the perfect route candidate to appease both the freight and passenger crowd. One of the realistic elements of operating freight equipment is being held at sidings to give passenger equipment priority, but it seems like we will get none of that for this DLC.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  43. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Against the general consensus....I think this route looks good. Yes...it may be a little on the short side but I'm sure there will be plenty to do with all shunting/switching tasks.

    Personally a longer route does not necessarily equate to better value...I thought Peninsula Corridor with its 47miles of almost straight track and samey landscape to be quite boring myself but each to his own.
     
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  44. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Has lasttraintoclarksville not chimed in yet? Freight (and not passenger) is his thing
     
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  45. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    And you are whats wrong with business. Its always " well they tried lets give them 5 stars." Well let me tell you something, sweetheart, you cant be the "nice guy" that accepts un excusable things. If you dont stand your ground things will never change. And with people like you.... god help us.
     
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  46. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I am disgusted at all this negativity about this route. I personally think it looks great! This is the kind of route TSW needed! I can’t wait to do all the switching operations and play in the huge yard.

    You people don’t realize that the distance between the end points doesn’t equal the total route length. There are lots of industries and a really big yard, and transfer areas in this route.
    As for not having mainline diesels, Matt said that Class 1 railroads won’t let DTG have access to their locomotives. So DTG has to use what they have.
    GO Transit probably isn’t included because they probably couldn’t get a license for it. Same for Via Rail.
    I preordered this route and I know it will be great!
     
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  47. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    With everything that comes out I always watch the live stream first and then decide
     
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  48. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    "You people don’t realize that the distance between the end points doesn’t equal the total route length." - I'm very well aware of that difference.
    "As for not having mainline diesels, Matt said that Class 1 railroads won’t let DTG have access to their locomotives." - Well that sounds like a bright future for TSW, does it?
    "I preordered this route and I know it will be great!" Let me put it like this: I see where you're coming from.
     
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  49. BNSF650

    BNSF650 Member

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    DTG
    Why are you only doing this route that is only 25 miles long? Why don't you listen to your customers who try to help you and listen to us U.S Railfans. This is why Trainz 19 is the way to go with train sims. You guys need to listen to us
     
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  50. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Active Member

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    I'm shocked at your positivity. This is from someone who actively wanted to buy a Canadian route.

    I don't think it is at all surprising that people are annoyed about these DLCs. Asking £25 is basically the price of quite alot of games... and people expect value for their money. Heck, even the original kuju rail simulator (a game that came out in 2007) offered much more in the way of route length, scenarios, stock. If I told the average gamer that I'm basically playing a game with over £400 of DLC... and paying around £1 per extra mile of track... you might be mistaken in thinking TSW was a mobile cashcow.
     
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