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Tsw: “oh Canada!”

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    This line from their Dovetail Live article has me feeling pretty optimistic that we will get to service a lot of those industrial zones you mentioned:
    "...or serving the nearly countless lineside industries along the line! Indeed, the expansive industrial trackage around the Hamilton area is virtually a route unto itself!"
    https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/oh-canada

    Awesome!
     
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  2. michael.j.meliambro

    michael.j.meliambro Member

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    Would've been nicer if they simply included the GO Transit trains as part of the DLC......If it was me, I'd do the same with the Peninsula Corridor and have the Caltrain "Baby Bullets" included, rather than to have people purchase it separately.
     
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  3. michael.j.meliambro

    michael.j.meliambro Member

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    LOL disappointing, considering Sand Patch Grade is, thus far, the longest TSW route (57 miles). How they can't manage that with CN is beyond me.....
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  4. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Oh he is, just on a different thread. Same old same old :|
     
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  5. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Given the the relatively low take-up of loco DLC (being a fraction of the fraction that buy the route), if I were DTG, I'd maybe try releasing the Baby Bullet at a free addition to the Peninsula Corridor route to see if that would increase the perceived value, and thereby bump sales of the more lucrative route DLC. People seeing that routes get free additions could also spur them into taking a chance on other DLC routes too.
     
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  6. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    It’s like having a wife, at the beginning she’s well dressed etc and when the time flies she neglect herself. For TSW Sand Patch was to astonish us but after they gave up a little bit on making huge routes
     
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  7. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I don't have Peninsula Corridor, but if they added the Baby Bullet for free I would purchase it right now. As it stands I'm not going to purchase either. Same goes for this DLC; I'm not going to buy it as it doesn't represent good value at £24.99, so I've bought Utah for American Truck Simulator and I'll buy Idaho when it's released, both £8.99, a reasonable price.

    If I could offer what I thought the Oakville DLC was worth, I'd probably pay £14.99, it's just not worth £24.99, when compared to NTP which had a completely new locomotive, an old locomotive, a completely new DMU, completely new Coaching Stock, 43miles of track and 17 stations, all for the same price of £24.99. It's just daft.

    I think a big part of DTG's pricing issues stem from the fact that they have very little data to work with. They have used this model of £24.99 for a route and £11.99 for a loco DLC since TSW began. They are not in a position know what difference it would make if they increased content and dropped the price. They're also not in a position to experiment, as if it wasn't for the UK government subsidising them they would have made a loss every year since TSW was released. So DTG are running the company on a financial knife edge which means just two or three very poorly performing DLCs in a row and the company may be in real trouble. A symptom of this desperate position is the production of DLC with the minimum content at the maximum price.

    The fact that DTG continue to develop content for TS2020 is another indicator that TSW is in poor shape. If TSW was looking to be a long term success, one would think that DTG would bring about all their development resources to develop for TSW, especially as they can't provide an Editor for third parties, so DLC is thin on the ground. Instead, three years post release of their next generation flagship product, and they are still pouring resources into TS2020.
     
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  8. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice to have at least some rolling stock reskins as free addition.
     
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  9. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    There's at least three paint schemes DTG could have provided for the GP9RM, but as is often the case DTG provide only one. The same goes for the GP38-2.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. metr0p0litain

    metr0p0litain Active Member

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    I'm really happy about breaking out of the US/GER/UK circle with a route based in Canada. But I'm also disappointed about the descending standard of quality and I don't understand, why it's so hard...

    OA_06_errors.jpg

    ...to keep the look of rails and equipment like guard rails, joint bars (fishplates) and fasteners equal. The new rails between the tracks are looking nearly black.

    OA_08_errors.jpg

    ...to have a look at plausibility: I honor that unused tracks in winter are white of snow, but the head of rails should be free after a train rolls over it. Beside that, why is the visual appearance different in the background?

    OA_12_errors.jpg

    ...there is no improvement of distant scenery and mountains? (In this picture I'm also irritated about the too dark and rusty rails of the unused track)

    I know that posting here in this forum will have no effects to the development of routes, but I couldn't hold myself back to share my thoughts with you.
     
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  11. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Well-Known Member

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    and people still want them to do the alps?

    nothing will change, they lack the talent to be blunt. You'd think over 3 years we'd see progress - we haven't. I think its well known that DTG wages are low and they rely on contractors for 3D models, so I think its fair to assume the route builders are either uni graduates or first year interns, I seriously doubt they have proper experienced talent onboard.

    PS3 era routes are here to stay.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  12. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I agree, the old rails are far too dark and the distant terrain is very poor quality compared to other games which use UE4. Distant terrain can be done much better in UE4:
    8b8864ac95260d1baa35155f638b876f.png

    Something else which annoys me is that all the freight cars are identical:
    [​IMG]

    I thought there was supposed to be dynamic dirt in TSW? Can't freight cars start with different levels of dynamic dirt to add variety? Can we get a few different paint scheme variations too?
     
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  13. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    It feels like we’re all on a bit of a DTG bashing train at the minute. We must remember that some (a lot?) of TSW is really very good, and a big step up from the content DTG put out for TS1. Light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. I think we all could get on board if we saw small but continuous steps with each DLC release. At one point I felt this was happening but it is evidently no longer the case.

    Now, with that said...TSW was a chance to start over, to completely redesign the game, it’s structure and the way it is built from the ground up. Instead, many of the problems that still haunt TS1 to this day have been carried over into TSW. All of these things are just like TS1...we’ve got shadows that throw themselves a few meters in front of the train, some good sounds but mostly very average at best, broken scenarios & services, useless tutorials, woefully poor manuals, incomplete and broken signalling systems, tile loading stutter, poor optimisation, inconsistent quality, bugs all over the place. Lessons don’t appear to have been learned, which is very sad. In some instances, TS1 is actually ahead of TSW. Often the lighting is far more realistic but more importantly, it simulates track adhesion. Having that missing is like a flight sim not simulating aerodynamics. It’s fundamental to the ‘game’.

    In addition, we’ve got half-arsed, broken and pointless features (mastery, for example) that get partially introduced in a barely working state to be ‘improved at a later date’. Why? If it’s not ready, and doesn’t work then why introduce it?

    It is utterly farcical that at least 3 years into this ‘project’, the distant scenery still looks so poor (in fact, it is often worse than it was in CSX:HH) It is unacceptable that ECW was released when they had to have known that the signalling didn’t work. Someone, somewhere, made a conscious decision that ‘that will do’. It is also unacceptable that this having to stand up and sit back down to get things working is still a ‘thing’. We can’t reliably save a game still. The skybox is rubbish and we still don’t have any sort of dynamic weather. Not niceties but basics - it’s 2020 FFS. Flight Sim had real world dynamic weather 20 years ago.

    More worryingly, we’re also now beginning to see the same loco(s) released bundled with different DLCs with changing functionality and features, so that if and when the editor is ever released, we’re going to have to have Terrabytes of data to play scenarios. It’s all too familiar.

    This game has so much potential but I’m really beginning to come to the conclusion that DTG don’t currently have the necessary skills and more importantly, the will to realise it.

    It could and should be truly awesome. It should be able to satisfy old and new players alike but to do so DTG need to grow some stones and take some chances, because these high priced, short, massively repetitive and unconnected DLCs are beginning to feel like a one way dead end to me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  14. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Ever considered that maybe they couldn’t get a “GO Transit” license?

    NAYDOG I wouldn’t say it’s due to a lack of talent. I’m sure they would take that as an insult. I think it’s due to a lack of time. They have time constraints you know.
     
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  15. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The current sounds for the AC4400CW sound like a vacuum cleaner. Why would you want them to reuse that?
     
  16. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Member

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    It cries a lot here, as usual!

    Decidedly you are never happy, you have asked for freight, we give you some and despite everything you want from the traveler now .
    Seriously, 5 pages of useless complaints and the same bitches who have been complaining for 3 years and who ultimately ends up buying everything.
    It is you who are pathetic in the end .

    As far as I’m concerned , I’ll take it , like everything else , I like TSW , it’s made to relax , mi-arcade-mi-simu , I expect nothing more from TSW than a good game time .
    30 km well done are better than 500 km missed , on TS US lines are botched in the majority , and the rolling stock is also extremely reused .
    Anyway, 30 km well made for 45 minutes of play after work , that’s all I ask and for me.

    DTG does it very well , I am satisfied with what I buy as far as I am concerned.
    So I’m not interested in the publisher...

    Finally, you should stop complaining continuously and go to other places permanently if you find better instead of permanently rotting DTG.
    You spoil the joys of other happy players, because yes it is a game of ungrateful bands dissatisfied .
     
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  17. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Because I'd rather have a Dash 9 with poor sounds than no Dash 9 at all.
     
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  18. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    "A lack of time"? Really? I think a lack of talent fits appropriately. Three years and the same bs scenery and etc. Console players still don't have the heavy haul route they were supposed to get. And honestly, a engine sounding like a vacuum is better than most of the problems in the game.
     
  19. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Please include the users' manual in the route package -- or at least let purchasers know how to find it.
     
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  20. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    You will always find the manual on the Steam Store page for a given DLC.
     
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  21. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The manual is always found on the Steam product page:

    upload_2020-2-8_15-55-55.png
     
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  22. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Since the announcement of OSD for TSW I watched a lot of OSD rail fanning videos especially with the GP9RM and GP38-2. In reality duos of that locos move trains there with 40 cars and more. Beside the switching action we can expect impressive freightpulling action. Okay it's not heavy freight (with 100 cars long trains). But perhaps we get a loco add on with that later.

    In the meantime I'm excited to get OSD and play with OSD. Since CSX HH we wait long for a northamerican freight route with a lot of freight action and now that will come through.

    I'm also very interested if we will see the cars that are manufactured in the Ford car plant in Oakville drive in the freight cars at the loading points.
     
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  23. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Get over it, passenger and long-haul freight addicts: activities that have resoundingly dominated TSW thus far -- at last there will be a route focused on switching operations. And, as Matt has pointed out, what counts in this route are the miles and miles of yard tracks, not the end-to-end length. Who knows, perhaps some of you will even be capable of carrying out switching's complexities and, yes, coming to enjoy them.
     
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  24. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice for console users not to have to go via Steam to view the manuals. Even if it’s just a link on the TSW dashboard to a manual.
     
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  25. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    A ‘Thankyou’ would have been enough.
     
  26. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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  27. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    If only it was possible to create routes that appeal to all these kinds of players...
     
  28. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Not for me -- this release deserves a bit of gloating!
     
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  29. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    That would, indeed, be nice. And some routes have done so to a minimal extent; but until this release switching has always been minimized, except perhaps in the Heavy Freight Pack.
     
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  30. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I love switching, but TSW isn't suited to switching. The fun from switching comes from learning the names/locations of the different industry spurs and then working out how best to switch the industries. TSW will make this a complete chore as it doesn't give any freedom.

    Firstly, it will be all hand holding; 'move these cars to this blue marker.' 'Now drive the loco to this blue marker.' 'Now move these cars to this blue marker.' Most of the fun in switching comes from the puzzle solving element of deciding how best to switch the train, leaving it up to the player to figure out the most efficient or entertaining way to do it, but TSW takes that away from the player.

    Secondly, the map in TSW doesn't display any names. Even if you could freely switch the train, how would you know which spur is which? You can't tell because the map in TSW doesn't have any names on it!

    Lastly, every freight car is the same. There's no fun in trying to work out which 5 out of the 40 identical clean white hoppers you're supposed to be spotting. If the cars had some variety you could say 'the red hopper back to the dirty blue one needs spotting,' but there's no variety in the freight cars.
     
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  31. BNSF650

    BNSF650 Member

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    Hey DTG.... How about some of these!!!
    CN_110402_Enid_OK_Thomas_Stebly_2019_12_31_109831.jpg CN_136607_Beaumont_TX_Erik_Edmonds_2020_01_04_110015.jpg CN_388140_Gage_OK_Rusty_Hinges_2019_03_20_108166.jpg CN_414301_Altoona_PA_Dustin_Faust_2012_12_01_102892.jpg CN_622511_Tulsa_OK_Erik_Edmonds_2014_06_12_81255.jpg
     
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  32. BNSF650

    BNSF650 Member

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    CN_710897_Altoona_PA_Collin_Reinhart_2006_11_06_97344.jpg
     
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  33. steadfast

    steadfast Member

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    Totally agree. From someone who does it for a day job! Every day at work is a different mental puzzle
     
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  34. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Ooh an engineer. Or possibly conductor. What railroad do you work for?
     
  35. 7orenz

    7orenz Active Member

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    Hey buddy, that's the 3rd time they use a reskin of GP38-2 (1st- NY NEC, 2nd- Corridor Peninsula, 3rd- Oakville-Hamilton)
    And the GP9 its pretty similar as design/shapes to the GP38-2. And I already got the GP38-2 in CSX and Union Pacific liveries.
    So, sorry me if after 3 years of totally support to DTG team and TSW project I asking for some real new locomotive.

    They have not license for common american freight locomotives (like the one in my pic) so they repeat to "spawn" the GP38-2 everywhere? Well, so I got no more money to support their project. :)

     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  36. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    GO Transit license is one thing, the length of the routes is another. There are 4 routes between 42-51 and 3 routes between 101-132 kms in length. The line that goes through Oakville is the longest at 132 kms. TSW will probably never make a route that long. Furthermore, the line goes through a lot of high density, built-up urban area. I noticed that the long routes in TS2020 go through mostly empty countryside with buildings around stations only.

    That being said, I really do wish they would release a GO Transit route. The Richmond Hill line is 42 kms long... it goes through the Don Valley for a good segment and low-density residential for the rest. The problem might be the downtown portion to Union Station which is very high density. But the short length of that line might fit in with TSW's perceived penchant for short lines. :)
     
  37. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow, I almost forgot something... I was working on a route proposal for this once.

    In hindsight this was completely unrealistic, but there was a point where I was going to make a route proposal for the full route here, from Toronto Union Station to Hamilton with both passenger and freight. It was literally years ago when I had the idea, and the length and amount of rolling stock was based off of optimism that they could work towards the amount of content you'd expect in regular TS, complete with 5 different driving cabs (including the reused GP38-2... but ALSO crazy things like 2 different skins of a P42 for 2 different operators).

    As expectations for DTG declined, I felt the proposal was unrealistic and I never finished it... but I overthought the thing enough that I actually made a cool graphic for it:

    LakeshoreWest.png

    Note that, interestingly, I didn't propose the industrial trackage south of West Harbour station that WILL be included in this route because I thought it would make the route too long.

    For anyone curious, the route as announced is just the bit between Oakville and "West Harbour," plus a large industrial complex / port immediately after West Harbour that continues for a couple miles You can actually see it on the map if you look closely.


    In fact, I was also planning on making a Peninsula Coridor proposal before that was announced, but with a twist that it was gonna be 1970's era (with GP9's and SDP45's) to try and make it different from the TS route. That did't make it to the cool graphics stage, but I still think that would've been cool... and realistic for dovetail, with just 2 driving cabs (yes, there were no push-pull operations at the time!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  38. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Member

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    I’m not your friend
    for the reuse of the material I do not see the problem, the color changes no?
    It also seems to me that on TS it’s been like that for 10 years and it also seems to me that nobody has said anything, right?

    No one forces you to buy then stop crying and go elsewhere to see a faith for all, you pollute the air here with your bad faith and your permanent dissatisfaction.
    I add that someone who has never bought a DLC us on TSW will have a new loco as far as he is concerned.
    I’m done with you: don’t you like it? Go cry somewhere else and shut up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  39. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    There’s no need for that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  40. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Or people aren't dumb asses like you and want something new if their gonna buy it. Now, do everyone a favor and piss off.
     
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  41. 7orenz

    7orenz Active Member

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    Exactly, I'm not your friend and that's the reason why you are not able to use that kiddish language with me. Learn to respect different opinions and stay relaxing.
     
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  42. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    Le zawal, il a pété les plombs. Ca lui été déjà arrivé sur le forum français.

    The zawal, he went crazy. It had already happened to him on the French forum.
     
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  43. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    You're all a pack of whingers.....I can't wait to run a favorite route poll again in a month or so to see CNOS rated #1. It was the same 'short route' wah wah posts when RRO was announced and look where that one ended up....

    History repeating itself

    XOX
     
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  44. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Member

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    À chaque match, il y a toujours eu des balles.
    Ici, je pense que vous êtes les rois (toujours les mêmes 4 glands qui n'ont évidemment jamais rien créé de leur propre mais bien sûr).

    Puisqu'il semble impossible d'aider DTG sous peine de lapidation, je suggère qu'ils arrêtent TSW car ils ne font évidemment rien d'autre que de la merde dans les yeux.

    Pour ma part c'est aussi à cause de gens comme vous que je ne développe plus sur TS et que je ne le ferai pas sur TSW.

    Big grandpa 34 vous êtes le roi des débiles puisque vous continuez à pleurer en criant que vous n'achetez plus!
    Mais alors, que fais-tu encore ici?

    Quant à MR 7oranz, oui je ne suis pas votre ami et je vous conseille aussi d'aller ailleurs si je suis stupide.

    Je ne vais pas être dupe de deux idiots qui pensent tout savoir et qui pensent avoir le monopole du site.

    Tu fais chier tout le monde ici alors sors d'ici et laisse les gens qui travaillent seuls.

    En ce qui me concerne, je ne me soucie pas de toi royalement, et je termine cette discussion stérile avec toi.

    Je suis donc comme un prince vous laissant deux idiots.
    Passez une bonne soirée
     
  45. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Member

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    tien tien jeannot le petit mesquin qui télécharge quand même mes création bien sur.
    Ca ne m'étonne même pas que tu ouvre ta bouche.


    Bref me parle pas , ne site pas mon nom , oublie moi loser.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  46. zane88

    zane88 Active Member

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  47. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    English please
     
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  48. 7orenz

    7orenz Active Member

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    1) All you said about me was pure fantasy -> that was my 1st negative feed in 3 years of TSW (and not a "permanent" like you wrote). And I repeat, we live again in a free world.
    2) In your one man show (pure delirium) you used 1 offensive term every 3 word. You are the boss, and at the top of my personal boss ranking, something like a legendary bad boss :)
    3) Im not a doctor but I suggest the same to spent your 40 euro for a specialist visit instead for a TSW Dlc.Healt is our priority, repeat!
    4) Saluti! (that's not française but italian)
     
  49. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    Sometimes I wish we could downvote people specifically like you.

    Everyone here has the right to complain. We purchased the game and want to see it grow and be amazing, but DTG seems to be doing a poor job on every release of a DLC and almost Turning this game into a cashgrab. It's not a simulation anymore, it's a train driving casual game and we're tired of it. So yes, we will whine, cry blah blah blah, sorry you don't mind eating the garbage DTG pumps out every so often. But we do and we will keep complaining until they directly talk to us, make changes, or this game fails. Or the ladder.
     
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  50. 7orenz

    7orenz Active Member

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    Please, re-read all from the begin. Because probably u inverted the sense of the discussion. (I mean, my first post in this thread at page 4, and the successive replies, thank you).

    Because you quoted my reply to ZawaBelidaBozz the bad boy who offense everyone not in line with his brilliant mind... Brilliant cause he has a great fantasy about how other people think about TSW :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020

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