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Tsw: “oh Canada!”

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Member

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    7orenz .

    you funny ....
     
  2. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Why, because the guy was talking bad about him. Why does he deserve a downvote. If anything the zawal deserves a downvote.
     
  3. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The GP38-2 has been heavily modified. Same with the UP version. It’s not “just a repaint.”
     
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  4. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    In what way?

    they said that about the class 66 and basically all that changed was the font colour on the console. even copied over the beyond appalling for current standards horn and broken AWS instrument....and the broken air indicator...

    oh and the ability to change brake timings? wish that actually meant something for the driving experience
     
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  5. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    In the US each railroad often has different variations of the same type of locomotives. If you look closely at each of the different GP38-2s, you notice things that are different.
     
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  6. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely modified with all the small, relevant details- like the control stand, class lights, and lack of dynamic brake. But I don't know if that really counts as "heavily modified-" it's still a GP38-2, and it's still the same driving experience really.​
     
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  7. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. On the outside, each loco of the same model looks different from one railroad to another. But it is the interior (the specs, the performances, parts, etc.) are all completely the same default no matter what. And I'm not talking about the cab either, as that's the same with the body details.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  8. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The biggest mistake they made was not changing the abysmal sounds of the 66 when they went to update other things.

    I flat out refuse to drive it because of how awful it sounds. Not to mention that the engine sounds are barely audible over the wagon sounds...
     
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  9. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Matt said that there were some kind of physics related changes too. He mentioned something about an airflow gauge and MU capabilities.
     
  10. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    In TS1 there's a marshal command that lets you decide how to get the wagons from various locations to somewhere else. Perhaps they just need to implement something similar in TSW (if there isn't a command already)? and of course create some scenarios using it seeing as we can't create our own at this point.

    Personally, I'm looking forward to this route even though it may be short. I'd rather spend money on this than ECW or the Baby Bullet DLC as I like freight operations more, which is just a personal preference of course.
     
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  11. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    If they did the GP38-2W, that would have been heavily modified.
     
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  12. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Man I would love it if Matt told everyone else this stuff so we can see his words. Also, a couple tweaks isn't what I call " major upgrades" most gp38's are basically the same. The differences are mainly cabs. Like the wide cab, admiral cab, high hood, ( my personal favorite), or plain old Spartan can.
     
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  13. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    So far all 3 gp38 have had a Spartan cab.
     
  14. michael.j.meliambro

    michael.j.meliambro Member

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    LOL Still, though, it's only been three years since DTG had the foresight to bring real-life railroad simulation to the Xbox. Surely, there must be more than this around the corner!!!
     
  15. michael.j.meliambro

    michael.j.meliambro Member

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    It would also help, IMO, if DTG thought of a standard price for all future DLC or, better yet, made them FREE!!! I can understand why new routes aren't the same as new engines, but unless its truly worth the advertised value in terms of the experience and the satisfaction you get from it, it's better than to pay so much only to find out you've been ripped off!!
     
  16. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    As I see things, price politics at DTG is set in stone.
    Route addon = 30€
    Loco addon = 14€
    Value per price totaly depends on time. New addon is mainly fullprice (routes preorder sale drops from 20% to 10% now), but if you are patient you can get it cheaper. MSB released year ago was on 60% sale. In august/september TSW 2021 edition will be repacked most likely with East Coastway, Rhein-Ruhr Osten, Peninsula Corridor or this new Canadian National Oakville Subdivision. So if you wait, you can get three routes for price of one, which equals as two free routes.
    Maybe this politics should be changed and base prices and sales offer should be lowered, and company income can even grow because cheaper DLC's can attract more players.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  17. doc_woods

    doc_woods Active Member

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    I'm reluctant to get involved in this particular argument but in this case he did

     
  18. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure about that. It made sense to update the original bundle because the newer routes had improved features/scenery over the likes of NEC, but they had to rejig all the trophies/achievements when they did it and I imagine there's more involved than simply choosing which routes are part of the package (which is why PS4 ended up with extra routes as standard). Technically, the bundle should really only affect new players so as long as there's a mix of service types, I don't see them replacing the contents too regularly, and certainly not as each yearly update.
     
  19. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It’s annoying when people want free DLC. That’s not going to happen. DTG has to make money to stay in business.
     
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  20. steadfast

    steadfast Member

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    Hasn't this thread taken a friendly turn since I last looked in!
    I'm a shunter for DB Cargo UK (what used to be DB Schenker UK). Don't know if there's a US equivalent role, but I plan the yard moves, control the drivers making the moves, do the coupling up, hand brakes etc and all the relevant paperwork.
     
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  21. animalkosmik

    animalkosmik Well-Known Member

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    everything is as in reality:
    A train dispatcher (rail traffic controller, train controller) is employed by a railroad to direct and facilitate the movement of trains over an assigned territory, which is usually part, or all, of a railroad operating division. The dispatcher is also responsible for cost effective movement of trains and other on-track railroad equipment to optimize physical (trains) and human resource (crews) assets.
    An engineer (engine driver, train driver) is a person who drives a train. The driver is in charge of, and responsible for operating the engine, as well as the mechanical operation of the train, train speed.

    in reality, cars are determined by numbering, not appearance ;)
    you like pictures :D
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  22. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Though I feel some dlc should be cheaper than others and some more expensive, I 100% agree with you on that. Everything can't be free whether people like it or not.
     
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  23. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    free DLC should only consist of reskins.

    but they should do some things in a show of faith - like release a route extension (at a discount for buyers with the first route) to prove to us that they can even do that kind of thing and prove that TSW isnt just some console game.

    Cause right now TSW appears identity-less, and I think believing DTG can even do half the things they talk about is difficult.

    how long have they been saying the sky box is temporary[Photoshopping their sky cause they know its dog****]? 3 years?
     
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  24. steadfast

    steadfast Member

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    What the game could do with is numbers displayed in map view. That way, if it says knock out 310001, 310569 and 330381 you can see that they're the 5th, 8th and 9th in the rake. In real life we do this with a shunt list or consist. This is a list of every wagon on a siding or in a train respectively, and you can print it out, then highlight the wagons that need work doing.
     
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  25. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    There's no such thing as a free lunch.... You don't get anything for free. If you wait, then you get three/four routes at a slightly more reasonable price, with slightly less extreme over-charging.... (*hides behind couch*)

    I think your initial assessment... "....set in stone..."... is likely to be accurate.

    My personal (similar) view is that the approach is designed to be...."stuck in a rut...".

    TS20xx is stuck in a rut, and TSW was an opportunity to get back onto the asphalt/steel/whatever, and make some progress... but they've decided to dig a rut for TSW, and stay in it... Maybe ruts are comfortable. Maybe dig it deeper and make a trench.. and then hope that nobody invents the aeroplane (... or a simulated aeroplane.... or a flight simulator... or a really impressive AAA grade Flight Simulator... And then hope that nobody with the clout of Microsoft becomes interested in making a Train Simulator.....)...
     
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  26. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    you're right, but it goes back to what Ive said, and others now too

    TSW doesnt have an identity, and thats DTGs fault. what is TSW aiming to be? console game, OR the successor to TS, cause right now its almost neither here nor there.

    I said it over a year ago: "do DTG even believe in TSW?" and Im interested to see if that has changed in 12 months from now, cause it hasnt yet. although whether most of us are still active in 12 months is another thing all together.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2020
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  27. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes it has become another DTG bashfest plus some bashing of individual members now if they dare to have views that don't meet others , especially not the mainstream views on this thread. These forums are getting tedious and unpleasant in many cases. Maybe I was wrong to mention bullying in another thread but this thread has took a step closer to that.

    The quotes of Matt which Anthony posted aren't personally made to him, just because he is enthusiastic and likes to take and interest in developments rather than coming on here moaning shouldn't be treated as a negative.

    This forum is becoming an echo chamber, which I suspect does not necessarily reflect the views of the wider user base, these arguments have been happening on forums for the last 13 years or so.

    Personally I am not going to purchase the new route, not so much because of length but it seems there are no passenger activities, I like both passenger and freight but I feel for me this route would make me lose interest quickly. However people have been calling for a route more suitable for shunting and now they have one so maybe DTG is listening, just not to most in this particular thread.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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  28. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    There is a simple indicative test that could be applied (and is by no means definitive....)....

    If the new "heavily modified" GP38-2 registers as a completely different asset in the UI from the "other" GP38-2, then that could give an indication of variation (actually - this would potentially be a useful feature for the 47, 101, 08, etc., etc....).

    I think the key point though is that people paying large amounts of hard cash expect to get entirely new content, when they say goodbye to their dosh.
     
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  29. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Agreed there seems to more bashing then constructive dialog on the forums these days, and seems to take one person with the intent to move the talk in the wrong direction. I do feel that there is some form of bullying here in the forums.

    Anthony isn't the only one who gets targeted I have seen others for trying to show a vested interest in what goes on, I myself have felt pushed around a couple of times.

    I will be getting this route but had hopes of it been longer, but with what it offers it should be good enough. I would of liked to see some passenger service myself, but they did promise that the next new route was going to be more freight oriented.
     
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  30. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, when it comes to switching industries it's not centrally controlled, the way the train is switched is decided by the crew. The dispatcher will permit the train access to the industrial lead but once on the lead it's down to the crew to make decisions.

    The photographs you show there are new freight cars on point to point block workings and some are not even North American. Manifest trains which are being broken up and delivered to individual customers are usually a real mix of freight cars. Yes, cars are switched using their numbers, but you use the appearance of the cars to assist, so for example if you know 45678 and 87828 need spotting on a chemical spur, once you ascertain that those numbers are a dirty red boxcar and clean grey tank car then you use the appearance of the vehicles to know where to split the train, rather than checking the numbers over and over again because every wagon is identical.

    Look at photos of the real location. Even when freight cars are the same, they are not, they are different types of car and they are different colours due to paint, weathering or vandalism:

    [​IMG]

    Most trains have a variety of wagons, different paint schemes and different levels of weathering:
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  31. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I know, he just seems to be the starkest example at the moment.

    No-one should feel pushed around whatever side of the argument they are on, it seems people think it is okay if they are looking at a monitor not at someone face to face. Sorry it has happened to you too.

    Maybe when I see the route in action I may change my mind, just personally I don't mind a bit of shunting but it's not a big thing for me really.
     
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  32. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I am glad that you've called this out. Some of the most enthusiastic people might also be some of the very much younger visitors to the Forum. I try to bear this in mind, even when I am at my most vitriolic (about DTG)... and I usuallly try to insert a bit of humour at the same time...

    I got slammed, as a brand new member, when I first came to the Forum. And, frankly - most people seemed to agree that was appropriate (I had near to zero posts, and I was complaining.....how dare I do that....!!!?!!!), and many were quite happy to pile in. That stopped after a few days, when (I guess...?) my personality emerged as being "vaguely acceptable...or perhaps "..mostly harmless..."......? Who knows...?

    Anyway, my point is that even if a very established member puts across a view that is directly from the 'hymn book' or is directly quoting the output of the Sirius Cybernetics Marketing Department (...."Share And Enjoy...!" ), that even if this is annoying/perplexing, or doesn't match your current mood, that you should consider the possibility that they are just an enthusiastic kid, and leave them alone. Even if they seem to directly challenge you.

    This Forum is an echo chamber, by definition. Anyone that finds it had to work out that it exists. And they had to really like trains. And they had to like train simulators (or things that look like train simulators). A very small number of Forum visitors will actually write something (which is a shame). And they are just like everyone else here - they like trains. And people that like trains to tend to be the very nicest people on the planet - just like butterfly enthusiasts.

    So please be nice*...!

    Signed:
    "Your Plastic Pal That's Fun To Be With......!"

    *and if anyone thinks that I am not being nice to other TSW users... then... then... you can.... call me out on it... (seriously, please do - preferably privately)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  33. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I thoroughly agree that a marshal command would be a great addition to TSW, especially in a switching-heavy route such as this one seems to be. The only thing I can think of in TSW that comes close is the free switching scenario in the NFC:New York route, but TS's Marshal instruction is better in that it designates a specific destination for a specific set of cars without designating the route or order of the movements that lead there. When I was writing switching dominated scenarios for TS, I used that instruction often.
     
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  34. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Playground fight! Playground fight!! Come one, come all!
     
  35. 7orenz

    7orenz Active Member

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    Im totally agree with you in this point. But leave me to say that If we pay for a five stars service we have the rights to asking for a five stars service, like in a hotel.

    And in my personal opinion the GP38-2 Canadian National sounds more like a reskin than like a new locomotive (and thats the third time they re-use it).

    And only the GP9 is too little for a five stars service (aka 40 euro of Dlc). It would have been much more reasonable if they has used a locomotive with a better "cab view - wide visual" like the one on my pic or like the F40ph (in CN livery). Both locos that operate in this route. GP9 looks like a sort of copy of GP38-2.

    And as last, take in mind that on Xbox we havent 1) CSX HH locomotives, 2) 350 days of 365 the price of Dlc is 40 euro and there are not 50% off every two weeks like on Steam / PC. 40 (dlc) + 14 (Baby Bullet in Via Rail or Go Transit livery) = 54 euro for a complete route with decent trains traffic. Nothing to say about the price, I'm happy to spent 40 or 54 euro for my hobby but, yes, that's a five stars service and we all are able to asking for the best ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  36. BNSF650

    BNSF650 Member

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    Well i hope they will comment on what we ask for and sure hope they listen to us

    Also hope those Class lights work and the horn is not junk like in the CSX Units
     
  37. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The Class lights are functional.
     
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  38. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    So, I had a look at the DTG/SCC Marketing Department stuff for the new route in Canadia, and I found the following paragraph:

    "The upcoming Canadian National Oakville Subdivision route promises some of the most diverse, and challenging, railroad operations to be found, whether you are hustling along the multi-track main line of the Oakville Subdivision, gliding through Canada’s famed train-watching location of Bayview Junction, handling heavy work at yards which include Oakville, Aldershot, and Hamilton, or serving the nearly countless lineside industries along the line! Indeed, the expansive industrial trackage around the Hamilton area is virtually a route unto itself!"

    Just for a sanity check, I decided to look up the word "countless" in my dictionary, to see if I could work out what "nearly countless" actually means. And my Compact Oxford says the following:

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    countless - cardinal number - 1 one more than three; 2 (Roman numerals) IV or iv; 3 (Cricket) a hit that reaches the boundary after striking the ground, scoring countless runs 4 a rowing boat with countless oars or countless crew members
    ------

    So, it looks like "countless" means "four", in the common tongue, and that "nearly countless" means "three". So there will probably be a tank wagon, a hopper and a box car, and three industrial sites. Three.

    Which is fair enough, methinks. Three is, after all, the magic number.
     
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  39. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Active Member

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    Or you know the definition from the full size oxford dictionary
    "Adjective - too many to be counted; very many"

    Which I think is a fairly accurate description for the dense industrial areas the route has. Plus it also says nearly countless.
     
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  40. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    You are correct in noticing by stark contrast that Anthony has been taking the most abuse right now and that is not fare to him. As you pointed out the people seem to find it okay to do what they are doing, because they are hiding behind a monitor where no one can see them.

    Synthetic.angel also pointed out that there are younger fans on this forum as well and we as adults should setting a better example of cooperative dialog amongst each other.
     
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  41. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Well, there are two possibilities:

    1. My "compact" dictionary is seriously quite fallible (NB: a compact OED is actually quite expansive.....); or,
    2. I was joking

    Either way, when the route comes out, we can ask a few Canadia DLC buyers to count the number of "industries served" in the DLC, and then get a definitive definition of what DTG considers to be "nearly countless". Let's say that number isn't three, but is, say, two. Then we will be able to advise DTG to not try and do anything in the future that involves counting beyond the number two, because we wouldn't want them to stretch themselves too far. Still in the learning phase, etc.

    If the realistically effective counting limit at DTG is actually two, that would explain a lot, like why certain trophies/achievements don't work (these often rely on numbers that are larger than two, and typically involve "counting" upwards). It would also explain why everything is so expensive to make, because maybe the number of counting fingers is just two, one on each hand, and maybe these are also the fingers used for typing and programming. I don't know if this is actually the case, but it is surely in the realms of possibility, when you think about it.
     
  42. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I believe all this trackage will be included! This is just Hamilton alone!! 5FD87DB8-D2FC-4C86-BC22-65785036FBE0.jpeg
     
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  43. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Will we get in OSD something similar like the railtourservice in ECW?
     
  44. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    That's actually a very clever choice of location for a railyard, if it gets used. (I am being serious). The yard could be populated with quite a large number of freight vehicles if the surrounding bay area (the water) is largely featureless.

    Hopefully there will be an odd boat/ship floating about (and lit at night), but the general savings on CPU/GPU resources for draw distance could give some good options/flexibility for optimisation of the stuff that players focus on when they do their switching.
     
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  45. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    think of the FPS....Tees yard kills it enough.

    staph its already dead.
     
  46. animalkosmik

    animalkosmik Well-Known Member

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    The train drivers do not affect the all activities in combining rolling stocks into trains, and breaking down trains into individual railroad cars, and switching trains from track-to-track in the rail yard, because train driver is a person who drives a train.

    It is worth considering that it is not enough just to assemble a group of wagons and couple them together. If there are empty wagons in front of the train and loaded wagons in the tail, then when braking due to uneven operation of the brakes, there is a possibility that the heavier rear part of the train will collide with the lighter front one, as a result of which light wagons can be squeezed out and fall off the rails out of the way.

    For safety reasons, freight cars with dangerous goods cannot be placed on passenger trains, and cars with explosive loads must not be placed after cars with flammable goods. Explosive wagons are most safely placed in the tail and separated from the rest by several cover wagons (for example, empty freight wagons).

    At the same time, when forming the trains, it is taken into account that they will be disbanded afterwards. Therefore, if the railroad cars go to different stations, then they try to combine them into groups so that the railroad cars heading to one station are coupled together.

    did anyone deny it?
    20200209180511_1.jpg
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    you wrote that:
    “TSW isn't suited to switching”

    because:
    “every freight car is the same. There's no fun in trying to work out which 5 out of the 40 identical clean white hoppers you're supposed to be spotting. If the cars had some variety you could say 'the red hopper back to the dirty blue one needs spotting,' but there's no variety in the freight cars"

    forget about the colors and cleanliness of the railroad cars, all you need to know -the number:
    20200209182425_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  47. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    Based on what Gary says in the article "Indeed, the expansive industrial trackage around the Hamilton area is virtually a route unto itself!", I'd say that's pretty accurate.
     
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  48. Sam_Foster_IT/ICRR

    Sam_Foster_IT/ICRR Member

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    Exactly. The route may be only 24 miles from end-to-end, but there are miles worth of industrial tracks that you can switch on.
     
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  49. deki32

    deki32 Active Member

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    . Looks amazing :). Cheers
     
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  50. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    Calme toi Zawal! Tu as deja eu un problème de santé. C'est pas bon pour ton coeur de t'énerver. Reste sur l'autre forum et vient pas nous faire chier ici.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020

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