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Tsw 2 – Building The Tgv Duplex

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    DTG will probably fix this although their track record of not fixing things that are clear as day says otherwise
     
  2. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Marketing literally abuse the word ‘authentic’ at every given chance. Their marketing for JT’s MML add on says ‘authentic’ despite DTG using a FGW HST as rolling stock for the scenarios. The route is authentic, but the rolling stock choice certainly isn’t.

    One of many examples where the marketing is out of touch with the actual product.
     
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  3. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    AKA False advertising. DTG needs to stop doing that and be more honest
     
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  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Surely it would be false advertising if it stated "comes with the MML HST"?!

    Calling the word "authentic" false advertising is just down to semantics, where does authentic start and finish? I have a Vanguards model of the Austin Princess which it says is authentic but it doesn't have the velour seats of the original or a real engine as per the prototype. Is that false advertising?
     
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  5. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I certainly love TSW but I think the marketing department should stop saying things like "Reproduced in exquisite detail, every station, signal and milepost look so real you could almost reach out and touch them" or "Featuring an electric simulation underpinned with expert technical knowledge and real-world data, the performance and sounds make them feel just like the real thing".
    Raising expectations so much is never a good idea.
     
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  6. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    You won’t buy a decent route because the wires in one specific place are ever so slightly different? That seems like a bad reason not to buy something. They probably didn’t want to fix them because they’re trying to release the route before Christmas, and they don’t want to focus on a specific detail that an overwhelming majority of people won’t notice.
     
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  7. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't that route made by Just Trains, not dovetail games? Dovetail are just publishing what just trains give them through steam. That route has also been available on the Just trains website for a long, long time I believe (probably with liveries that DTG don't have the license for, hence they can't publish it with the MML livery)
     
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  8. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The problems are not only the wires themselves but the whole centenary is different there are a lot of photos already in this thread
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    If your marketing team is advertising something being as being made authentic and as realistic as possible when that simply is not the case with the overhead canternary wires, it's called false advertising.
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    When they say things like that, then there is a expectation by some customers for that to be the case when they advertise their products like that but when that is not the case, it bites them back in their behinds
     
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  11. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    False advertising is a specific legal term that generally does not include the use of vague adjectives like "authentic" or "realistic", or at least a court of law would laugh at such a notion. This is because you can not empirically prove whether or not the content delivered on the promises of being "authentic" or "realistic". What may be considered unacceptable by some will almost assuredly be deemed satisfactory by others. For example, if you were modelling a locomotive for TSW, at what point would it be considered authentic enough? How many triangles would the 3D model require before reaching that threshold? Would you need to calculate the percent error of the 3D model from the reference locomotive? How would you calculate that? It is completely nebulous. As such, the marketing teams can get away with calling a product "authentically recreated" because they have, in good faith, referenced the real life locomotive to recreate their digital 3D model, even if they may have taken some... artistic liberties with the design.

    With regards to catenary, you cannot reasonably convince a judge that the product was falsely advertised as "authentic" or "realistic" since the aforementioned adjectives are just that: a likeness. The problem, in my opinion, is how the promotional artwork is being handled. It is disingenuous to model the correct OHLE in the artwork but not in-game. However, as long as DTG provides gameplay screenshots that includes the wrong catenary, it is then up to the buyer whether or not the product is satisfactory enough for them to buy it. If a consumer purchases a product expecting the correct OHLE but did not check the promotional screenshots included on the store page, it is the consumer's fault for buying a product that they did not want, as opposed to DTG's fault for supplying a mislabelled product.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
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  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think imma take dtg to court for saying things about a route that aren't accurate to what they claim. I have better things to do than that. It would be a waste of time
     
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  13. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Of course not.
    If you read my post, you would see that I come to the same conclusion.
    Off you go, then.
     
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I ain't going anywhere
     
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  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    No it isn't! False advertising is deliberately misleading customers. If it said the Canternary wires are 100% accurate you might have an argument with them!
     
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  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Just like how they said tsw 2 was "new game" when in reality it was more of a update to the old game (which we had to pay for) Or how they kept saying a editior would be coming many many times before they eventually announced that a editior wouldn't be coming
     
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  17. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    They never mentioned TSW would have an editor in the advertising. There wasn't even a mention of it for some time and then it wasn't exactly promised. I was 90% certain it would come but no more than that. If you purchased TSW because you thought it was definitely going to have an editor then that is on you.

    And, no one forced you to purchase TSW2, you didn't have to pay for it if you didn't want to!
     
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  18. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, also TSW2... you got two DLCs at the price of one + new features... it was a good deal
     
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  19. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't regret buying tsw2. I like the game but they shouldn't have said it was a new game because in reality it was not. It was updates and three new routes which route wise is a good deal but the game as a whole was more of a update than anything else
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
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  20. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    It would be so nice, if some people in this forum would have your behavior Wenel. You're a real TGV driver and you know how the TGV and his surrounding infrastructure is in real. So you give DTG hints to improve the TGV Addon. No bad words on DTG and no complaints. You're interested on bringing things real forward.

    Thank you Wenel. And always good driving with the TGV Duplex in real.
     
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  21. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Can confirm that regardless of how it looks visually, the wires are 1.5kv in the Marseille area and require the use of the "C" setting, if you then continue into the tunnel and don't change, you will run out of juice and not make it much further until you do the correct power change procedure and switch to LGV mode. Same applies in reverse going the other way. The procedure for changeover comes from TGV drivers who are helping us, in fact they've given us a lot of insight into operations of the TGV (it's not just lower the panto, change mode, raise the panto - there's a little more to it than that). REV boards are also present to indicate the correct moment you are safe to restore power.

    The "approval to close circuit breaker" lamp indicator is also correctly tied to detecting if you have raised the pantograph in the correct mode.

    Wait till you hit this route at 320km/h on the rollercoaster on the Southern leg... going from a 3.5% up directly into a 3.5% down at 320km/h is... well... you feel it.

    I think, hope, you will really enjoy this :)

    Matt.
     
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  22. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    I will enjoy definitely Matt. Thanks for your very interesting informations.
     
  23. KyleL

    KyleL Well-Known Member

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    Oh nice
     
  24. masse2

    masse2 New Member

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    Hello and thank you Matt for reframing the subject because seeing the realism of the ICE and the German lines I am convinced that I will have a great time driving this TGV. Thank you again Jean Pierre
     
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  25. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    It is not just the wires themselves. It is the fact they knew, had an asset they could use, but they just ignored it. Many people (myself included) mentioned this compared to the OHLE/third rail switch on SEHS and it is a point. If you press all the right buttons but don't see any difference, the experience is cheapened. If SEHS had the third rail all the way and people complained, what good would the excuse "well you go through the procedure" do? And the argument they want it out before Christmas is weak at best. They have British OHLE assets from GWE, they have the third rail. If they wanted something for Christmas, SEHS could have come out before LGV. Nobody forced them to do it this way and run out of time to put in the correct catenary. Also, there's probably nothing like a "bad reason not to buy something". If that's the priority (which I completely get, especially considering what it could create in the future), it's completely fine, it's their money.
     
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  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    That's what matters, great to know it's working.
    Hopefully once (if ever) you'll have the capabilities to improve the actual centenary it will be changed but the important thing is that's working...
     
  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The fact that they ingored it was a bit of a joke
     
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  28. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    Quick question, will there be either good tutorials, manuals, or at least waypoint markers for you to see what power type to switch to? I like this being implemented, but it might be tricky for me, at first, knowing little to nothing about the TGV. If not, hopefully those can be added at some point, I do know that better manuals and tutorials are on the roadmap.
     
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  29. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    The tutorial on the TGV is one of the most in depth we've done to date.

    It covers the full brake test procedure you should do on taking over a new train, and it also covers the power change procedure heading northbound. Southbound is basically the same but with the power control swithc going the other way basically :)

    Matt.
     
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  30. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    I’m a bit disappointed that you didn’t used the 1.5 KV DC but I’ll still buy it as it still looks good and you said you did some improvements on techniques which some are new than the previous DLC + depth tutorial it means you did the maximum on this new route
     
  31. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    That's so awesome!
     
  32. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Will there be tutorials or a manual covering the signalling and safety systems, or will we need to refer to the TS2017 manual?
     
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  33. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Released togheter with the route I would imagine
     
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  34. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    With regards to a manual, and returning to a favourite meme of mine...

    What should happen
    Create DLC -> Write manual -> Marketing -> Release DLC and manual

    What started happening this year
    Create DLC -> Marketing -> Release DLC -> embarrassing pause -> write and release manual

    What happens now
    Create DLC -> Marketing -> Release DLC -> tumbleweed, tumbleweed, tumbleweed, tumbleweed, tumbleweed...

    I wonder what to expect for this DLC...
     
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  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha. This made me laugh but it's so accurate to what dtg has been doing. Manuals should come with the dlc when it's launched. You shoudn't have to go on youtube to figure out how complicated aspects of a train works until they decide to make a separate manual several weeks after a dlc is released.
     
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  36. Wenel

    Wenel Member

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    Hello everyone, and hello TrainSim-Matt

    I'm writing this post today about the first look of the TGV made on livestream yesterday.
    First of all I'm very happy of the aspect of this TGV, it looks really like the real one and it's great to see that accurate into the game.
    The livestream of yesterday made me think of bought the game and then bought the upcoming DLC of the LGV.

    With this post, I just would like to give you some details that could be updated that I saw yesterday on the preview.



    * First, about the doors:
    20201211105903_1.jpg

    Into the livestream of yesterday, I saw that for allowing the opening of the doors you choose wich side you want to open with left (BP-BG) or right (BP BD) button to let open the doors. And also the center button (BP AB) to close the doors.
    In the 200 series it's the opposite.

    BP-BG for: "Bouton Poussoir - Blocage Gauche", it means push button left lock.
    BP-AB
    for: "Bouton Poussoir - Annulation Blocage", it means push button for cancellation lock.
    BP-BD
    for: "Bouton Poussoir - Blocage Droit", it means push button right lock.

    When the train is moving the 2 white lights are active(automatically above 7 km/h), when the doors are unlocked the lighrs are off.
    The procedure for exemple to open the left doors is to push the BP-AB button for unlocking, and then the BP-BD to lock the door of the right.


    * The VACMA or VA:
    Yesterday it seems that you made the VACMA (our vigilance system), exactly like the Sifa. It was an acknowledge activation every time you heard the ring.
    Actually the VACMA isn't working like that.
    The VACMA need to do 2 movements.
    You need to first maintain a pressure on the pedals of 55 seconds, if you do not maintain, in 2,5 seconds a big sound will play. We call it the sound MA for "Maintien d'Appui" (meaning that you have to maintain), you have again 2,5 seconds to push on the pedals or an emergency brake will be active with an opening of the circuit breaker.
    The second movement is after of the 55 seconds. Every 55 seconds you have to release the pedals. if not you will heard a ring sound (the one used in the livestream). This is the sound RA for "Relâchement d'Appui" (meaning that you need to release/not touch the pedals) but also not releasing more than 2,5 seconds. Not releasing the pedals will also give an emergency brake with an opening of the circuit breaker.



    * LSSF:
    The LSSF is the blinking orange light(circle) on the KVB.
    20201211110450_1.jpg
    LSSF mean: Lampe de Signalisation Signal Fermé meaning Signal Lamp for Closed Signal (a closed signal is almost every signal with a crocodile except a green aspect in France).
    This almost work like the AWS. When a not green signal (semaphore, carré, avertissement...) or a TIV need to be acknowledge, a sound is heard with the light blinking. There you need acknowledge or there will be an emergency braking.
    I making a point on this because yesterday in the livestream, LSSF didn't blinking with yellow signal before the entrance of Marseille St Charles station. It's also sad to see that there are 25kv poles in the exit of Marseille, where it's actually in 1,5 kv until the entrance of the LGV.

    Finally I just like to answer of one of the question asked yesterday by the Colonel Failure for the voltage selection.
    The difference between M an LGV is only the setting of the pantograph.
    For M an LGV it's the same one, for 25kv 50Hz AC. M raise the pantograph normally, and LGV put the pantograph at the height of the catenary at 5,02 constantly. For high speed lines, the catenary need to be the more straight possible it's why there are the LGV Mode, the Pantograph is locked at this particular height.


    I just would like to thanks again DTG for building this addon into TSW2. The french players really like to be finally in this game, i'm glad to see DTG interesting again in France.

    Best regards from France
    -Wenel
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  37. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This is how DSD works in UK trains. In the game the pressing of the Q key is simulating the release of the pedal. At all times, when sat in the driver’s seat, the pedal is simulated as being continuously pressed, and pressing the Q key is when you want to release the pedal to comply with the safety system. It would appear to be modelled the same in this case.
     
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  38. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Would be interesting to see how the train reacts to you holding the Q key for too long. Never tested that with the British stock, does it work there?
     
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  39. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know I’ve never tried. If it was to work properly it should stop the train. I’ll give it a go next time I drive a train with DSD.
     
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  40. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    What is the speed limit for driving with M mode? I've seen a video where they changed from LGV to M at about 170 km/h as they were passing track workers on a relatively long section. (Also props for a really great insight)
     
  41. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    M stands for Monophasé so under 25KV AC so there’s no speed restriction and you don’t lower the pantograph on neutral section you only open the MCB then from switching from M to LGV then it’s around 120 kph but not 300 for sure. ( I think the maximum speed is 200 but I’m waiting for specialists I only work on train station lol )
     
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