Tsw 2 - Unreal Engine Update?

The second FAQ on the TSW 2 page states "We need to bring Train Sim World forward – advance the engine..."

Does that mean a newer UE4 version?

 

Yes its UE 4.2x

 

Just out of curiosity, how do you know TSW 2 will be on UE4.2x? Was it on a dev stream or a forum post??

 

It was asked on a forum and answered by DTG. More details will follow on thursdays dtg stream

 

It's being updated to UE 4.2X (I cannot recall the X exactly so won't guess - we'll have a precise answer on the stream.)

 

Very good, thank you both.

 

TSW 2 UE4.2x

 

Glad I saw this post! Lots of people have asked me why on earth is it considered a new game, but this makes much more sense now that I've seen it! Maybe DTG can add that to their article as well so people truly understand why it's a new game and not an update.

 

It's not an unprecedented move. The shift from 4.15 to 4.16 was a free update despite being an extremely labourous change.

 

Do you know what time the stream will be on and if there is a link?

 

5pm BST on twitch and youtube.

 

Well according to this tweet it's 8pm BST. Why DTG can't just post these details on the forums for those of us who don't live on social media is beyond me.

 

Agreed not all of us have social media accounts and rely on these forums for our info. I think it would best that DTG did their stream at their regular time today as Sony is having their stream today a hour after DTG's.

 

Thanks

 

It was stated that the 4.23a is the aim for the unreal engine as it was the up do date version when they started the work 9 months ago. For those interested there is a graphical changelog for each version: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/release-notes/unreal-engine-4-23-released

 

All those changes they have no intention of using you mean? Cool that, well worth it.

I mean I am sure they have good reasons for doing it but the entire stream was a list of things people actually want and some smug dude going "no" and failing to give a single reason why the answer was no. He even sits there going "yeah we've updated the engine but no, there wont be any of the enhancement that engine brings, no, no ray tracing, no, no, no"

It barely sounds like an update to the end-user other than a few new routes, a very basic livery and scenario editor that may or may not be any good, and wont allow sharing, and maybe some barely noticeable performance improvements purely due to the engine update itself and that's it.

Oh, but they've spent a bunch of time making clouds more realistic guys. Remember, that one major issue people wanted fixing? Clouds. Yup.

 

Actually... yes. The clouds as they stand look horrendous and I usually run without any clouds or full overcast. Anything in-between looks horrendous. You can see in some of the teaser screenshots that they do look better now. Not the volumetric art that you find in flight sims, but they are more wispy and interact properly with sunlight now.

 

It’s absurd that DTG doesn’t update the game Engine every quarter and keep the game Engine “up to date” (with the very latest game Engine release) instead of using a 2-3 year old version (4.1x version) since Unreal Engine has been on 4.2x versions for 7 releases already! Which is over two years (7 quarterly releases). So in well over 2+ years DTG hasn’t updated the game Engine at all, and not only do they NOT keep the game Engine updated they are 3-5 years behind in implementing any of the features of the newest game Engine releases (including Ray Tracing, etc)

DTG should be developing using the experimental builds (so they are a year ahead) instead of always being 2-4 years behind and updating to “4.23” is NOT a new release, especially since UE 4.27 is the latest release and Unreal Engine 5 is already in beta and getting ready to be released. It seems like DTG does an extremely terrible job at keeping the game Engine updated (regularly) and when you look at games like Squad that release game Engine updates every month (with the very latest patches/hot fixes/updates and keep the game engine and Squad SDK up to date with the very latest Unreal Engine versions). It seems like DTG is extremely lazy and is always 3-5 years behind me in technology and game Engine updates. About 5-7 years behind in using the latest game Engine features, and we may never see realistic water or ray tracing or any of the “modern” release features of Unreal Engine because DTG does such a terrible job of not maintaining or updating the game Engine every month! There should be ONE dedicated developer that does absolutely nothing other than keeping the game engine up to date in in parity with the very latest Unreal Engine releases! So the environment artists and level artists can use (and implement) the very latest game engine features (such as Ray tracing and realistic water and Chaos physics) instead of always being 3-5 years BEHIND (using extremely old and outdated deprecated versions of Unreal Engine) without keeping the game Engine updated. It’s extremely easy to go from one point release to the next and keep the engine constantly updated. It becomes extremely difficult when you don’t update the engine (monthly) and instead wait 2-4 years before decided to try and update the engine and then are forced to nearly re-write the whole game because you haven’t been maintaining the monthly updates! It’s very bad practice and look at a game like Squad that is updated weekly with the very latest engine builds and map developers release updated maps regularly with new features and new updates every single week!

DTG is just “extremely lazy” and they soak us for money, but nothing gets updated and we are always 3-5 years behind in game Engine features because DTG doesn’t update the game engine. Sure, they want to “sell” us a “new” version of the game every single year with NOTHING changing and NOTHING being updated, but those updates should be getting done every week and releases every month instead of using an old 3-5 year old game engine version (to start developing) and then never updating it to the very latest updates and fixes/updates/ releases every single month.

There should be one developer dedicated to doing nothing but keeping the Unreal Engine game Engine up to date (which is extremely easy to do) and it only takes one mouse click to update the game engine and then import the existing project file (which automatically gets updated) if you update every month and do the regular one point release updates (4.25, 4.26, 4.27, etc)

But for DTG to NOT update the game engine for 3-5 years and then want to “sell” us a “new” game that again is using a 3-5 year old version of the game engine is just completely absurd!

The stream where all they community manager did was say “No, No, No, No, No, No” for about an hour or two just shows that DTG is doing absolutely nothing (for years) and moving at a snails pace when it comes to game Engine updates or game content updates or releases. We can’t even create our own maps or game mods (like Squad or Farming Simulator) because we don’t even have a “Train Sim World 2 SDK” that should get released (for free in the Epic Games Store) on the SAME EXACT DAY that the game is released so modders can start creating third party DLC and game content and maps! Instead there are ZERO mods and ZERO third party content in the past 5 years because DTG won’t even keep the game Engine updated and release an updated SDK every month on the Epic Games Store (for free) so third party developers and modders can create new maps and mods and third-party content.

So the game just stays “dead” and “stagnant” with no third party game mods or third party maps or any third party locomotives or livery or content! Just look at the game modding community for MS FS2020 and X-plane and Squad! There are tens of thousands of modders that create new vehicles and new aircraft and new third-party game content (and new third-party game mods).

It seems like DTG doesn’t get it and doesn’t support the modding community or third party developers and for this reason... DTG will always remain a “waste of money” and “completely dead”. Without third party content creators and third party game modders there will never be enough new (and free) content available. Look at the millions of free game maps and mods for games like Squad or GTA V or FS2020 or X-plane! DTG should be focused on releasing an updated SDK every month (that is using the very very latest Unreal Engine release) so that modders and third party developers can finally start making nice cities and train routes/maps and adding nice vehicles and adding photorealistic and fixing many of the “broken” things that DTG is “too lazy” to fix!

But without third party developers and without Community Modders creating free community-created content (like FS 2020 or GTA V or Farming Simulator or X-Plane) the DTG games (train sim games) will continue to remain stagnant and boring and “dead end”. Everything that DTG touches seeks to be “stagnant” and “dead end” and nothing ever gets updated or fixed and games engines always seem to be 3-6 years old and we will never see updated maps or ray tracing or photo realism in any DTG game because third party developers and community developers can’t create updates or “polish” the existing maps or games or release any third party DLC!

So everything remains “dead end” with DTG and when you watch the community manager say “No, No, No, No, No, No” for an hour and a half... it shows how bad the community manager is (and needs to be replaced?) with someone that represents the community and works alongside the developers to bring us the features that we are asking for and demanding! (with third party SDK and third party development tools at the very top of the list!). Third party Tools (SDK) should be created and released to the community BEFORE any DLC is even created!! So third party developers have the same amount of time to create new DLC for current and future TSW game releases!

 

Wow, you necrod a post from June of last year to let out your rant, congratulations.....

 

DTG does such a terrible job with failing to keep the game Engine updated (every single month) and releases weekly updates for game Engine updates and fixes and keeping the game engine constantly updated to the most current and very latest Unreal Engine release (at all times) so that developers and content creators and third party developers could create new maps and new third party content and third party DLC using the very latest Unreal Engine release feature (such as Ray Tracing, etc) and there are so many great vegetation packs in the Unreal Engine marketplace that third party developers can use to create amazing photorealistic vegetation and maps and make the game look amazing (because DTG is too lazy to do it) and without community modders (and a TSW SDK available for modders to download for free from the Epic Games Store) then TSW will just remain stagnant and dead with very little content and no third party maps, content or wagons or locomotives or nothing and that is what makes Sim games so much fun is the third party developers and third party content! Look at how many aircraft, airports and vehicles are available in FS 2020 or X-Plane or Farming Simulator that are ALL created by the community and available for download for free!

https://www.farming-simulator.com/mods.php?country=us&lang=en

Or here:
https://mod-network.com/p/The Squad

or here:
https://www.gamesradar.com/flight-simulator-2020-best-mods/

Or here:
https://www.msfsaddons.org/liveries/liveries-megapack-v8

In 7+ years I haven’t seen a single game mod or ANY free third party DLC available for ANY DTG game and TSW seems to be following that same path towards being a “dead end” game that refuses to release an SDK for third party developers on the Epic Games Store (for free) so that third party developers and members of the community can create new routes and new maps and we can slowly make TSW into a good game instead of “dead end” game that never gets fixed or we can’t create our own maps or our own routes or focus on creating content for our own local regions that we can share via Steam or Game Mod websites as free DLC locomotives, liveries, and free third party maps and routes that community members can create and share with the community.

 

Well, I tried to be “patient” for 8+ years hoping that DTG would “improve” and I was extremely “hopeful” when DTG switched to Unreal Engine (from their old ugly outdated engine) and after 6+ years of TSW being in development, I was hoping that “TSW” would become the “FS 2020” of the Train Sim Community.

But in 5+ years we still don’t have an SDK and still don’t have a path for third party developers to create game mods or third party maps or third party locomotives or third party wagons or third party liveries or even third party created maps, routes or ANY third party content.

I purchased TSW2 and wasted another $130 in hopes that TSW2 was FINALLY going to have an SDK/Editor that we can use to create our own maps and third party mods, but after watching the latest roadmap updates it seems that all we heard is “No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No” for over an hour and it’s disheartening to hear that we can’t create any game mods for TSW or TSW2, and it’s just a “dead end” game.

Farming Simulator has hundreds of thousands of community created vehicles, equipment, liveries, animals, crops, weather and seasons. It’s amazing how much the Farming Simulator Community has evolved and grown but updated SDKs get released monthly (by Giant Software developers) and highly detailed step-by-step tutorials (and YouTube videos) are posted, and it has a strong “modding” community (supported by Giant Software developers) that releases SDKs and tutorials so everyone in the community can create their own farms, their own maps, and share the content (vehicles, trucks, animals, trains, crops, etc) they create with the community!

I was just hoping over the past 8+ years that something would come of this, but DTG doesn’t seem like a company that supports “Modders” or third party developers or the modding community.

So after 8+ years we see absolutely no third party content or any third party routes or maps and you waste your money on a game that has very little DLC and most of it is old outdated DLC (from old TSW) that was never updated and looks like a 7+ year old game that is being released as a new 2021 game.

Without third party community developers creating free content, then TSW will never become big like FS 2020 or Farming Simulator or X-Plane community.

I love train sims and I was just hoping (and praying) that DTG would create a train sim for modders and third party community developers so we can all work together on building the absolute best “Train Sim” game and content, but we just don’t see that happening with DTG and although we were told that it would happen with TSW, it still hasn’t happened and no we are told that it will NEVER happen. Just another big fat “No” and “Never” from DTG.

The company of “No, No, No, No, No, No, No” but they just want our money and nothing changes and nothing gets better.

Just look at Clink’s Megapack (free) with over 600+ liveries and 357+ free aircraft highly detailed (all developed by the community for FREE!)

When do you think we’ll see an SDK from a DTG? NEVER! When do you think we’ll see thousands of free aircraft, airports, ground vehicles, aircraft and liveries? Never!

I was truly hoping that an SDK would get released (on day one) and over the past 5 years that we would see MILLIONS of game mods, trains, wagons, maps, routes all created by the community game modders, but in 8+ years not a single thing from DTG! They still won’t release an SDK on the Epic Games Store for game modders and third party developers to download (for free) and let players begin developing their own maps and routes and adding their own locomotives and wagons and let the community share their creations (free DLC via steam) so that other players can download new FREE locomotives and routes and maps for free! (Just like the thousands of new airports being created and added and tens of thousands of new aircraft and vehicles being created and added by the FS2020 Community).

We just can’t seem to get any help or tools or anything from DTG! 8+ years and still nothing!

 

An public editor's not gonna happen- how many times do they have to say it?

And there ARE 3rd party devs (Rivet, TSG, Skyhook), though i'm sure you'll say they don't count, for various reaons.

I can understand you being disappointed, but it's just tiresome seeing this ancient gripe being brought up again and again...

 

DTG is always 3-5 years behind in game Engine updates.

Yes, it seems TSW2 will be using UE 4.23 (that is extremely outdated and deprecated) and instead of keeping the game Engine “up to date” using the latest and most current Unreal Engine 4.27 (so developers can actually create modern and updated content) the developers are using an extremely outdated 1-2 year old version of Unreal Engine (instead of the latest 4.27 release) and then content will “lag behind” (and map developers can’t use the latest game Engine features because TSW and TSW2 are using extremely outdated and old versions of Unreal Engine).

Unreal Engine 5 is already out for beta testing and TSW2 should have been based on Unreal Engine 5! (instead of older legacy outdated engine versions).

 

feel we would get even more bugs and dtg would have even more challengers trying to create stuff on a engine that's in beta

 

I’m downloading engine version 4.26.2

 

ok?

 

I doubt it seeing its not out yet

 

It is on Epic.

 

It really would be quite pointless to build the game based on an engine upgrade that won't release until at least Q1 2022 and will take most of next year to shake out. And to suggest that " DTG is always 3 to 5 years behind" is simply not true. UE 4.26 is barely 6 months old ( Feb 2021) and DTG is already implementing it. If anything they are ahead of the curve.

Edit: Didn't spot the age of this thread, Sorry if I necrobumped.

 

There's nothing wrong with commenting on an older thread if you're contributing to the conversation.

 

Rush hours out on the 19th if you’re after that too

 

Incorrect - UE 4.27 has been out for quite a while (over a year already) and was already in GitHub test/dev branch since January 2021 (we have been using it for well over a year now, and have been using 5.0ea for over 2+ years now).

After 6-8+ months of QA testing, UE 4.27 was released to production branch (GitHub) in August 2021 (right around the same time as you posted saying it’s not available). You should really start looking at source and consider compiling your own builds from source (Epic Games GitHub repository).

UE 5.0 has been in Early Access Preview for over two years now (since late 2019, and demo previews since early 2020). UE 5.0 branch (main branch) has been tested for almost 3+ years now (already on Early Access Release 3 now) and to say that it’s “not available” means you haven’t looked very hard.


Latest UE5 source code is available here:
https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine

UE5 Documentation is here:
https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/ReleaseNotes/

Many studios (Coalition, Microsoft, Sony, Epic, etc) have been using it for well over 2-3 years now, and there is quite a bit of information from Unreal Engine on the advantages of using Nanite, Lumen, Chaos, etc.

If you haven’t already, you may want to hire 1-2 developers just to focus on migrating over to UE5.

Fortnite (one of the largest games in existence) has been running in production on UE 5.0 (R3 branch) (release 3) since late last year. With 4.8 million concurrent daily players, and 80.4 million monthly players. Fortnite is one of the largest games in existence and UE5 R3 branch (UE5 Early Access Release 3) is available in main GitHub.

Studios have been using it for production use, and you might want to take a good look at it. Because UE5 is a “game changer” when it comes to world partition, Nanite, Lumen, Chaos, etc) and you may want to consider a migration strategy (sooner rather than later). Instead of waiting another 3-5 years.

Unreal Engine 5 is here. Download the source. Familiarize yourself with it. We’ve been using it for 2+ years already, and UE5 is far more stable than UE4! Get used to it, and the sooner that you embrace it, the easier it will be to learn it and use it.

If you want to stick to using 4.26.2 for production, I can understand that, but you really should familiarize yourself with UE5 (release 3) and begin a TSW3 test/development branch (based on UE5) so that you and your core engine developers (and content creators) can start familiarizing themselves with UE5.

Using UE5 today is the equivalent of using Windows 11.

Using UE4 today (in today’s modern day in age) is the equivalent of using Windows 95. It’s laughable and UE4 was a great tool for it’s day in age, but UE4 is deprecated and UE5 has been out for 2+ years now and you should seriously sit down and begin learning and start reading some UE5 documentation and begin familiarizing yourself with UE5.

I understand that DTG moves extremely slow, at a snails pace, but the sooner you begin to familiarize yourself (with modern game development tools) and the sooner you begin to read UE5 documentation, begin sifting through the UE5 source code and begin to learn UE5 and the sooner that you begin to adopt UE5 and slowly implement a new updated UE5 development pipeline, the better.

Latest UE5 source code is available here:
https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine

UE5 Documentation is here:
https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/ReleaseNotes/

 

4.27 implemented the Oodle Compression Suite (Epic Games bought RAD Game Tools, creator of Oodle Compression Suite and the Oodle Compression tools are now integrated into UE5 and UE4.27). Which is pretty beneficial for PS5.

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-U...4-27-is-now-available?sessionInvalidated=true

You can read about it here:
https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/WhatsNew/Builds/ReleaseNotes/4_27/

 

Hi Matt! My concerns are that wasting ANY time or effort at all in improving sounds (on a UE4 based version) is a huge waste of time and resources (as well as money/time/engineering).

In my opinion, create a “dev branch” (fork) of TSW2 (future TSW3?) now and begin keeping it current with UE5 releases (UE5 release 3) and stay current with MetaSounds and Quartz.

If DTG does decide to hire an audio engineer than make sure that they are familiar with MetaSounds (and Quartz) and really focus on developing for the future (instead of the past).

UE4 is dead. The sooner that DTG realizes this, the better. UE5 is the present and the future.

The sooner you focus learning UE5 and implementing a new UE5 workflow, and learning MetaSounds the better!

https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/AudioFeatures/MetaSounds/MetasoundsReferenceGuide/

Please watch this Unreal Engine 5 tutorial video on MetaSounds here:


If DTG is going to spend any resources (money) on improving sound, at least use UE5 and the new MetaSounds! Don’t waste the time or energy on an old dead engine like UE4. Put that time and effort into UE5 and MetaSounds! UE5 is pretty much production ready and many studios have been using it (including Fortnite) as production ready.

UE5 already has 2-3 years of studio production use and is extremely stable. Fortnite is already running on UE5 now. Focus your audio engineering / production efforts on UE5 / MetaSounds / TSW3 (based on UE5 and MetaSounds).

Focus on the future, and the present… NOT the past! DTG spends way way way too much wasted time focusing on extremely old dead end deprecated technology. UE4 is dead. UE5 and MetaSounds is the present, put your time and effort and energy into that.

UE5, world partition, Nanite, Chaos, Lumen, MetaSounds, these are the present and the future.

Stay focused on learning UE5 and move the production pipeline to UE5 as quickly as possible!

Don’t waste anymore money or time with UE4!

MetaSounds documentation here:
https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/AudioFeatures/MetaSounds/MetasoundsReferenceGuide/

Please watch this Unreal Engine 5 tutorial video on MetaSounds here:

 

Don't know who this guy is, but as far as I know, Fortnite is running on UE5, but has not been released yet. And many games may be in development for UE5, but also have not been released. UnrealEngine site states that UE5 is in 'Early Access' and specifically states that those developers looking for production-ready build are recommended to consider UE4.27. And by the way - Matt already has stated that DTG has people working on understanding UE5 - just no plans for any migration in the immediate future.

 

The claim that running on UE 4 is equivalent to running on Windows 95 is just silly.