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Tsw 2020 Ue4 Update? Matt? Dimitri?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by nne4229, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Please tell me you're not sticking with the old version? Sound improvements, graphics, performance. What's the scoop?
     
  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    No update to a newer UE version.
     
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  3. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately not. They seem to be sticking with the same version for the foreseeable future. Though lighting and audio issues and bugs desperately need fixing.

    Matt is aware of these issues though he stated nothing can be done until a dedicated audio team can have a look at these issues. No idea when this will happen though.
     
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  4. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It’s not easy to change to a newer version of UE. It’s like trying to change the foundation of a skyscraper.
     
  5. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    It may not be easy but it is recommended for stability and performance.
     
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  6. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Which means more function.
     
  7. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    When they upgraded to the version that they are using now, it broke everything and it took them a long time to get everything working again. It was when they were building GWE.
     
  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The obvious response to this would be that they've got a year until the NEXT release so could be working on this issue NOW to be less behind then than they are now... Might be too farsighted, but here's hoping
     
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  9. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Can’t help but feel this should have been factored into the development plan from day 1.

    Talk about backing yourselves into a cul-de-sac.
     
  10. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    <pedantry>Actually backing into a cul-de-sac would make it easier to get out of.</pedantry> Although the point is taken.

    I must admit though I thought the point of creating a new system based on a current and developing game engine was that those developments (and bug-fixes) would be included in the package without fuss.
     
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  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Basing a dev plan on what other companies may or may not do would be kind of impossible...
    Who knew for instance that UE would remove the possibility for friction alterations in one of their builds?
    Who knows what the next io for playstation or xbox will be able to do or not do?
     
  12. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, I can confirm there will be no Unreal Engine upgrade in the TSW 2020 release.
     
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  13. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but what makes you think that it wasn't? ^^

    We are looking at the UE4 upgrade, it's just that it's quite a monumental task and simply cannot be done together with such a big release like TSW 2020, but it definitely isn't something we are avoiding. It presents certain challenges which need to be overcome. I can't tell you more at the moment, though. Hope that helps.
     
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  14. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    As Matt says on one of the stream - Change of TSW UE4 engine is like change of the skyscraper foundation.
    I think, if any UE4 change come, it will not be that DTG upgrate to any new UE4 engine revision by Epic, but they just implemet new usefull feature to their customized UE4 version.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  15. Fitz

    Fitz Member

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    Probably because the consoles would get left behind and are waiting on PS5 and Xbox 2 before moving on. Current consoles are at their limit with this game.
     
  16. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Hah. Good point. Glad the sentiment wasn’t lost.

    My understanding was that DTG had taken a version of UE4 (which by definition is constantly being updated / improved) and then very heavily modified it to fit their requirements. All the DLC that have been released so far are based on that version, and all of its inherent bugs and broken features.

    It has since been said numerous times that updating the base engine is an extremely time consuming and difficult task and doing so won’t, on the face of it, generate any revenue for time spent on the work. I also understand it’s certain to break a number of things that will also require time and effort to repair. That begs the question, do DTG see it as worth it, or do they continue to build houses on iffy foundations knowing that down the line immense effort will be required to repair them?

    As I’ve said before, with every DLC release surely this task of updating the engine becomes harder, more time consuming and more arduous. In the meantime, the consumer is left with a very expensive piece of software that has huge potential and excels in a number of areas, but that is then so massively let down in others. Two years in and we still cannot save a game.

    No doubt the TSW2020 release will win new fans, but it will also put off many first timers who want to get into the genre but who can’t (or won’t) put up with the bugs. Broken sound, broken lighting and the inability to save a game are three things that ought to be top of this mythical ‘list’.

    Edited to add - It makes far more sense to me to upgrade the engine first, iron out the big bugs THEN have the big re-release. TSW2020 looks on the face of it to be simply another marketing push to repackage older content with some UI changes and a new route. All welcome, but still tinkering around the edges rather than addressing the fundamental problems.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    There will be more than just a new UI. There are new features coming too.
     
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  18. Infinity Explorer

    Infinity Explorer Member

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    More perfomance improvements, Jobs and “Journey”. Sounds good!
     
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  19. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    It still looks to me as tinkering around the edges and repackaging what is already there. Sorry.

    If I’m wrong, and they’ve re-written and added to all the services and scenarios for each route then I’ll more than happily eat my words but I can’t see it.

    ps Where does the press release mention performance improvements or ‘jobs’?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They've updated the game engine. Nobody from DTG is saying anything different to that
     
  21. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Dmitri at 11:41,

    “Hey guys, I can confirm there will be no Unreal Engine upgrade in the TSW 2020 release”.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    As stated on another post by Dmitri, yup
     
  23. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    My apologies, I’m completely confused. What are you getting at?
     
  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Just agreeing that it was an official thing from DTG rather than off the top of your head
     
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  25. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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  26. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't
     
  28. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou.

    Anthony, I might be wrong but I reckon you should be most excited by the new US route. I suspect the rest of it is a bit of spit and polish on an old pair of shoes.
     
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  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Only if you consider the content to be "the game" rather than the background, menu options, possibilities going forward etc etc to be "the game"

    Personally I find it a good thing that they're updating the front end and possibly releasing more value from assets now and in the future than there have been in the 19 version of the game front end
     
  30. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Me too.

    That said, I’d still rather they had spent the man-hours involved fixing bugs or expanding new features such as PIS, traffic etc. to existing content. Or making the wagons in CSX actually weigh something. What good a new front end if the scenario or service you’re playing is spoilt by the well documented problems. This sounds way harsher than I mean it to because it isn’t a pig, but it does smack of putting lipstick on one to me.

    In my opinion only of course, scoring systems, menus and tutorials are all rather irrelevant. There’s nothing particularly wrong with those aspects of the game, so why go for fixes there over tangible improvements to the actual crux of the sim?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe they ARE doing these things (however slowly) but given the complexity of the engine, the UI, the content, simugraph etc etc etc I can see it might take them a while...

    PIS has been done fairly well by a third party in TSx (Frankfurt trams II) so there's hope there
    Traffic is an issue because of the issues as discussed by Matt in one of the devstreams. Basically they tried to do too much with the first few routes and ended up front heavy, so a lot of the background stuff had to be taken back out to fit on lower spec systems. The newer routes seem to be a lot better in this regard
    Existing content - Service mode substitution brought in a lot of richness to the content, Hopefully the new mode will bring even more to this
    Wagon weight - This is actually a UE bug... They removed the weight and friction differential in the version DTG use for TSW so they're having to do workarounds in game by literally making the "loaded" and "unloaded" wagons a different asset. That's what I've read anyway
     
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  32. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I am excited for the route, AND the new features/UI. It’s nice to see TSW being worked on and improved.
     
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  33. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe DTG can finally get a break from harshness after this big release.
     
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  34. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That will never end. Those people will always find something to complain about.
     
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  35. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Staff Member

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    There is a very strong desire to upgrade the core Unreal Engine version but as i've said numerous times before, it's akin to rebuilding the foundations on your house, hoping the house doesn't crack too much, and then going back around and carefully repairing all the damage and then realising the new foundation has a different plumbing interface so you need to them re-work your sinks and bathrooms a bit and so forth.

    Matt.
     
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  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    My first thought was "and this is OUR problem how?" but then I am a complete git ;)
    I'm sure this sort of thing will either happen or it won't
     
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  37. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    It's not our problem, but why do people care about the Unreal version that is used? Of course in new versions bugs may be removed, but also new bugs may be introduced. So I think it is wise to be a bit careful about this. On the other hand, waiting long makes the list things changed and the risk things will break much larger, which makes it more difficult and risky to upgrade (believe me I know this from my own experience with complex applications). So, let it be the decision of DTG and let's hope they make the best decision here.
     
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  38. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Mods can close this thread, while I'm a bit disappointed I got my answer and the reason why is stated. No need for further discussion of this topic.
     
  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I was joking... hence the smily winky face...
    I am also aware of the perils of updating to avoid bugs and walking into other bugs, so yeah hopefully solutions can be found to the issues
     
  40. Darthtool

    Darthtool Member

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    A new release with all the same old bugs? Thats an embarrassment, what are Dtg playing at?
     
  41. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    How you know Unreal 4,22 (now 4,16) has solved the problems as listed?
    It can maybe be the program that is wrong, has nothing to do with the unreal version.
    Just changing unreal version for the sake of change is no point
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  42. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Look up the release notes from the patched versions, play other UE4 games from older versions to newer and note the improvements in performance, graphics draw distances, filtering, physics models
     
  43. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    You who can with unreal, I can not. but there seems to be a lot of "experts" here
    It is complaining with Sound improvements, graphics, performance lighting and audio issues, performance,
    graphics draw distances, filtering, physics models
    Which of unreal versions solves what. You who can do this can help Dovetail with this.
    Unreal versions 4,17
    Unreal versions 4,18
    Unreal versions 4,19
    Unreal versions 4,20
    Unreal versions 4,21
    Unreal versions 4,22

    To just say that the latest version is the best I do not buy.
    All the improvements that have been made here may not have anything to do with what the dovetail uses or want to use.
    It's just Dovetail who knows this ( I hope )

    There is actually a program written by Dovetail (C++ , and Blueprints)
    which of course cooperates with unreal
    and where I think the biggest mistakes is. Train headlight is bad but it is bad in TS2019 to

    But someday it will be Unreal 5 (or 4,45...) then i really hope they change.
    But maybe they must do a complete new program for this. (not compatible with each other)
    So TSW 2022 use this Unreal 5 (with many new features) and TSW 2020 use Unreal 4.16


     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  44. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    Saw this Youtube video yesterday about Dovetail and Unreal (Simulation Developer Dovetail Games | Project Spotlight | Unreal Engine)
     
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  45. Dogbert

    Dogbert New Member

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    If in doubt change the name. Which is great for the console kiddies.
    But us serious simmers on our pc's, want a bit more substance to the game.
     
  46. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Adding "2020" to the end of "TSW" cannot be considered a name change any more than adding the current release year to the end of TS can. "Serious simmer"? not half.
     
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  47. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    the thing is soon DTG will have to be force to update the unreal engine cause i think epic keep support for unreal 4 versions for while then at sertan time they stop supporting it and take it down cause it too old. like windows 10 versions but unreal keep support for few more years. so maybe in year or so the train simulator engine will be at 4.5.xxx
     
  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Just because Epic may stop supporting it doesn't mean DTG can't keep using it. Even up to date machines such as EPOS in supermarkets are using windows XP embedded which stopped being supported years ago.
     

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