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Tsw: Db Br 204 Out Now

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Member

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    Good to see Rivet taking response on that. Communication is great @Rivetgames ! Looking forward for the update, even if it is on start of June ;)
     
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  2. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

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    As DTG mostly patched content when new DLC came out in the recent release, I think they BR 204 update comes when the Class 20 releases in about two weeks time.

    One explanation DTG given is that updates on consoles need to go through validation of the console developer.
    As they want to patch at the same, they opted for patching content when new DLC is released or a one time update with fixes/patches after a route update (larger impact then a loco DLC most of the time).

    But then again, sometimes DTG releases updates ahead of schedule or in certain circumstances, we will need to wait and see.
     
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  3. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    Jasper_Rivet post on rivet forum:
    The update has been given to DTG for further handling and QA, so there's not that much we can do.
     
  4. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

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    I was just explaining a possible reason why it hasn't released yet :)

    I know that ones a update has been given to DTG it is in the hands of the QA team and then the (team) for publishing.
    It has been explained somewhere before how DTG handles updates/patches/QA stuff in other occasions, so just made a logical conclusion :)
     
  5. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Presumably you would have done extensive testing of the DB BR 204 DLC, and found that the swept envelope didn't fit the infrastructure (causing it to hit bridges on the route).

    So my question is why did you place such a locomotive into service, on a route that it can't run on? Why did you release the loco for sale when you knew that it wouldn't fit the gauge?

    What is the latest situation? Have you negotiated any modifications to the bridges?
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  6. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Fear not....! More content will surely come.....! In the absence of an Editor, the Stirling Office will be able to release exclusive Scenario Packs for the DB BR 204, at maybe only €5.99 each, with five scenarios per pack. If they do two packs for each route, then that will only cost you about another €60 to get all of the scenarios.

    I am not saying that this will happen - but the potential is there.
     
  7. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    You're barking up the wrong tree. This is entirely DTG’s fault for not placing the bridges properly. This happens on other routes were overhead wires clip though bridges as they’re too low, for example.
     
  8. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes - it is possible that the Chatham Office built the route out of scale, and that the Stirling Office built the DB BR 204 correctly to scale. It's the HO/OO problem all over again... same track gauge.... but different loading gauge... Hilariously funny in it's own right....

    But you're barking from the top of a very unstable tree.... If The Community is trained to accept that neither the Chatham Office nor the Stirling Office will take responsibility for any flawed product, because of a wheel/rail interface issue.... then all future products are liable to arrive not just with a few bugs.... but in a viciously broken state.

    This is the thin end of the wedge - set the precedent now for both Offices to blame each other, rather than work co-operatively to deliver products to an agreed standard, which are then actually tested.... then things are going to get much much worse, very quickly.

    The thing that has surpirsed me the most is that the very first product to roll out from the Stirling Office has this kind of "can't fit the infrastructure that the Chatham Office designed" issue.... I would have thought that the two Offices would have taken extra special care to prevent this from happening with the first Stirling Office product.

    The disappointing thing is to see the Stirling Office immediately place the blame on the Chatham Office. It is very sad to see, and frankly... I think that this is an extremely poor approach to communication.
     
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  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Effectively to the average person, they see Rivet and DTG as two, completely independent companies. They probably don’t even know that Rivet were all ex-DTG staff.

    Regarding as how they see each other internally, I do not know. Is Rivet just a branding and company name change, but still operating on DTG policies? Who knows.

    I do agree that there has to be better communication between both and also with DTG itself across different departments, however.
     
  10. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    The thing that sent a shiver down my spine was when Matt P was asked on a livestream who would deal with bugs (for the DB BR 204.... but also generally for "third party" products). And the response was something like....

    "Well...... it depends on who caused the bug....."

    And as we have seen already, with certain rolling stock in certain tunnels..... nobody is going to jump up and say - that bug... yeah... that's my fault... I will fix it ASAP... There is absolutely no instinct for any of them to say:

    "Well, we will work together to fix any bugs like that...."

    And to me, this is quite surreal. Because....I mean - do Rivet actually make any other products that are not wholly dependent on DTG....? Do they...? Will they...? So it is doubly surprising to see them immediately pass the buck back to the hand that feeds.... in public.... as if that is completely normal for a new business relationship to develop between two inter-dependent "companies".... Quite surreal....
     
  11. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Active Member

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    With TSW 2 coming in August what's happening with the update for the db204 is it still coming
     
  12. teilekind

    teilekind Member

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    since everything is useable in the new one, i assume it´s coming
     
  13. Sparmi

    Sparmi Active Member

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    I expect the update for the DB BR204 to be released next week, together with the main DTG update in preparation for the BR Class20. According to Rivet Games the update is already finished and under QA testing by DTG. Among other things, it also contains a new scenario for MSB main line...
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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  14. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I'm being unreasonable, but as a consumer I couldn't care who made the DLC. There shouldn't be bugs like that, regardless of who has made it.

    There's the bridge clipping, but also the bug with the incorrect speed down at the docks. Both should never have made it to release.
     
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  15. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, if the speed is incorrect or the bridge is too low it’s only DTG’s fault
     
  16. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I sort of agree....

    It is DTG's fault... as publisher of the DB BR 204 DLC.... irresepective of which Office designed it.
     
  17. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    However other than those that are on here etc, how many people know / pay attention / care what is made by whom?

    It still stands that products should not be sold with bugs like this, and there's been no mention of any rectification either. So I imagine they're here to stay.

    The speed limit one is actually pretty major, as if you follow it then you arrive at the train after the other loco attaches to the other end. This leads to a derailment and immediate scenario end.
     
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  18. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Like the stupid speed limits on the NEC where one portion is limited to 160 and the next one to 60 then back to 100 it’s ridiculous. Hope with TSW2 they’ll take their time to beta testing the route before releasing it
     
  19. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    Thats because the middle track between New Rochelle and Newark....the Acela Trackage is 100 MPH. Except NYP thats even for Acela they must go 15 MPH...and in the tunnel they go 60 MPH....but anywhere not in the New York Area permitted to go 160
     
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  20. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They do test it.
     
  21. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    On NEC.... not only did they not test the modules.... they didn't even open very many of the modules.... they didn't even test them for one second.... not even a tenth of a second... There were modules that literally broke the instant that you opened them....

    The last round of fixes to address the above came in September 2019 - over two years late....
     
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  22. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    No point testing if they don't fix the bugs.
     
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  23. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Anthony they don’t
     
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  24. F.Barnes

    F.Barnes Member

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    After updating 1.44 & 1.45 ..... where is the update for the DB BR204?

    No changes in timetables and no new scenario. :(
     
  25. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    not updated BR204
     
  26. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Active Member

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    Tbh I thought a update would have come either today or yesterday for the 204 but it was confirmed after the class 20 is released there is going to be no more updates to the game so how is the 204 going to get updated
     
  27. ColinM_Rivet

    ColinM_Rivet Member

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    Hi,

    There is an update for the 204 with additional gameplay coming *very* soon now we're promised (details of what's included here: https://forums.rivet-games.com/forum/announcements-en/1276-tsw-announcing-the-db-br-204#post1508).

    When making content for someone else's game there can obviously be bugs that are either in our product, in the core engine, or worse, sometimes both. No software is ever 100% bug-free, but we'll try our best to make sure serious problems with anything we ship are fixed. I suspect that because the 204 doesn't run on a route we've built that we can't do anything about the bridge problem, but going forward we're obviously hoping to do routes for TSW as well which will mean we're more in control of any such issues.

    C.
     
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  28. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Member

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    I personally have enjoyed the 204, pottering around Germany.

    I do also like the idea of the hour+ scenario. I assume will allow us to stretch the engines legs on the mainline!

    Its a pity that they are not continuing with TSW2020 as I am sure you could have cross pollinated the 204 into other German routes :(

    Thanks again

    D
     
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  29. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Really...? Are you saying that the DB BR 204 will never fit...? And that it will always collide with the bridge...?

    By the way..... Have you considered the possibility of initiating a review to investigate the scope for making plans to conduct a trial for a pilot study to inform a forward strategy including aspirations concerning whether it might be a good idea to test your products.... before you sell them....?

    Maybe something for the future...?
     
  30. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I agree that bridge issue has to be fixed by DTG only as RG only did the BR204
     
  31. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - and it's a shame that the Stirling Office wasn't given the opportunity to test their locomotive on the route, before selling it.
     
  32. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure they did. Why would they not test their own content?
     
  33. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    It's less expensive to make if you don't test it.

    The loco might then hit bridges.... but that's okay. Nobody minds stuff like that.... Probably.

    Just duck when you go under the bridge. That is what the crouch button is for.
     
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  34. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Active Member

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    I'm not to fuss about it tbh I don't really notice it
     
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  35. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Rivet have spent all that time making the locomotive and then they notice that it clips a bridge on the route when testing. They ask DTG to fix the bridge and they say ‘no’. What exactly are you suggesting they do, just not release the loco? Why should they miss out on the sales of something they’ve worked hard on because someone else rushed the build of a bridge a year ago and got the loading gauge wrong? Rivet are in the clear on this one. It’s DTG that made the cockup, and they should fix it.
     
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  36. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    The very general point that I am making..... is that some sort of effective testing should take place before stuff is put on sale. That would include a visual check of rolling stock running on the route. The entire length of the route. It's a QA thing.

    If TSW did not have an external camera, and the user could not detect that the rolling stock did not fit the railway... then it would not matter. However... taking screenshots is a key feature in TS1 and TSW. You can anticipate that people will want to look at the outside of the rolling stock - you can even walk around it.

    If you design rolling stock, then you should make yourself aware of the real loading gauge used, including any deviation from standard along the route, before you even commit pen to paper (or mouse pointer to screen...), or spend any time at all in the design phase. In the real world, DTG would have been asked to provide an Infrastructure Register confirming the loading gauge used (this should be a UIC gauge on that route, but I don't know for sure).

    Personally, I think it is up to the Chatham Office to decide whether or not they will make their infrastucture fit the new locomotive.... in principle.... As the Infrastructure Manager, in this case, they could just refuse to accept the locomotive and not allow it to be put into service.

    However... since DTG is also the publisher of the DB BR 204.... then yes, IMHO, the ball ultimately falls in their court to make the fix - for the benefit of customers.... customers.... that critical (but often forgotten) fourth party stakeholder.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  37. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Nah, you’re overthinking this one. It was just a mistake someone made which has impacted in a tiny way on something someone else has done, and of all the clipping of scenery and realism errors in TSW this isn’t one to write home about. It’s not up to New York Penn standards of bad modelling, or drivers in the wrong cabs all over Teesside, and it’s much easier to avoid having to see it. Look away now, like Matt did in the stream.
     
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  38. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - I am only discussing it because of the principle of supporting the idea of introducing some effective QA..... The actual issue itself is fairly minor - you can just ghost the loco roof. And the avatar's head.

    NB: To be fair to the Chatham Office - moving a bridge upwards is not that straight-forward...... If you have to change the shape of the landscape mesh.... then that could have an impact 250m in every direction, and potentially across map tiles..... It's potentially non trivial.

    Whereas the loco could just have its height "cut'n'shut"...... ;-O
     
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  39. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    How about lowering the tracks under the overpass.make it a dip effect.
     
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  40. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I think the important question is:

    - Is the bridge supposed to be that low? If so, then why does the 204 go that way?
    - (The more likely candidate) - Why was the bridge too low? Surely as part of the testing process you drive a train down every line to make sure that it looks ok? Would surely been something I'd do if I was testing. Would also have revealed the erroneous speed restriction down at the docks too.

    Personally I couldn't care less who's fault it is, it simply should be resolved.
     
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  41. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Wasn’t the Class 20 release TSW 1 last opportunity to fix and release a bug fixing update alongside it?

    If so, all remaining bugs will forever be bugged as DTG have essentially abandoned TSW 1 from now.
     
  42. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Active Member

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    In away yeah
     
  43. smash_cze

    smash_cze Member

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    It is really sad...
    I still hope they will release update with bugfix from Rivet Games soon.
    And maybe DTG will add some other bug fixes... (sci-fi?)

    Someone from Rivet could clarify how is the situation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  44. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I think at this point we need the following:

    - Confirmation that the bug fix is definitely coming. I purchased the 204 after the patch was announced (expecting it to be fairly soon), I really won't be happy if the patch never materialises.
    - A rough estimate when the patch will be released.
    - Confirmation if DTG will bother to fix the bridge or erroneous speed restriction. The latter should take a few seconds to fix the clearly typo speed restriction.

    DTG said they wanted to improve communication, but other than upsetting most of their player base in a Q&A absolutely nothing has changed.
     
  45. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    wait TSW2 UPDATED DB204?
     
  46. SvEn

    SvEn New Member

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    Hopefully Not!
     
  47. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    If DTG decideds too do the fix after aug 9 so only preservered collection gets fixed thinking those who don't buy tsw2 will be stuck with a broken db br 204,then it might be time to spend your money elsewhere.who knows how many unfixed issuses will those who don't buy tsw2 right away will be stuck with because of this.i don't blame rivet games they put togather the fixes but dtg is taking there sweet time getting them to are games.
     
  48. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    This was posted on the Rivet Games forums in regard to the 204 update, June 22nd. DCB8ED77-E495-4E48-B815-BACBECC05BC2.jpeg
     
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  49. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    yes wait updated
     
  50. DeStijl

    DeStijl Member

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    Well, at least we aren't the only ones that DTG doesn't communicate with...
     
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