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Tsw: Hagen – Take Two!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to use want in every second sentence. Most times I can figure out what you're trying to say, but here I'm at a loss.
     
  2. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well, the WSR (still 5 miles longer than RRO) is a little cheaper, (23€) and it also brought two all new engines, namely the 47 and 08, and an assortment of coaches.

    Taking this as a scale, should RRO sell for not more than 20€, I might consider buying it after all. Might.

    But then again, having read how for the regional train services we're not even getting recycled engines included, we must own their native DLC if we want to drive them... maybe even 20€ would be too much.
     
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  3. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    WSR is pretty old now though and I don't think it was that price at release. I'd have to check my emails to confirm

    -edit-

    WSR was indeed cheaper at release than the other longer routes so that does set a precedent for RRO to be potentially cheaper as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  4. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    Knowing next to nothing regarding DB, are there many stops/stations along that portion of proposed route? Tons of stops would certainly make it feel a bit more girthy
     
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  5. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    The article also states that the main line via Ennepetal is also included, which brings the main line mileage up to 42 km or 26 miles. Not great, but it's about the same as Tees Valley, which was priced at the regular $30. Building off of the "content in this I'd like to see in older DLCs" in my last post, I would like to see the containers used on this route to be mixed in with the Great Western Express/Sand Patch containers on those two routes. Seeing a full train of nothing but blue and white CSX containers starts to get a little boring after a while. At least GWE has different colored containers.
    Not counting Hagen Hbf and Wuppertal Hbf, there are 14 S-Bahn stations plus one station only served by Regional-Express on the main line. There is one station on the route west of Wuppertal Hbf - Wuppertal-Steinbeck. The furthest distance between two stops on the route is between Schwelm and Gevelsberg West, a distance of just 5 km. The first few stops out of Hagen are 2 km apart, then 3 stops within 1 km of each other, and then the S-Bahn line dives under the main line and the final stops are all only a few kms from each other.
     
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  6. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Something else I just noted: Having moving Schwebebahn trains is neat goodie, don't get me wrong. But here too, you could be just arsed enough to get it - literally - half right?

    [​IMG]

    Compare that Schweb to the real train: See the difference? See what's missing?
    [​IMG]

    Was it too much to define "cars" pulling one or two trailers and get the whole train that way? And build infrastructure for bendy busses, trucks with trailers and what not in the future in one swoop? A train simulator that shows so little respect for one of world's most famous example of rail transit. Wow...

    On the other hand however, other than the Schwebebahn, the scenery does look dense, well made and indeed life-like. That's Wuppertal in a nutshell up there.

    Something else you could fix, is making the ET 422 a bit more shiny, give them a skin like the DoSto coaches basically. They're made of metal, not rubber. ;)

    Schnauzahpowahz Yes. It's an S-Bahn, a commuter rail. Hagen to Steinbeck is 16 stops.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  7. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    I'd have liked to see a bit more of our money spent on DLC go into routebuilding instead of two stupid containers. Think about it, DTG use this as an actual selling point in the article. Real company names. On the containers! Not much driving to do here, but hey... Con-Flipping-Tainers! Ain't that incredible?!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  8. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    Were we able to drive a bit of the 'hangey train' this would be phenomenal. Judging the pics and you guys knowledge this sounds fairly diverse. Will it take the spot over RSN being my fav? Time will tell
     
  9. spina304

    spina304 Member

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    Reused trains and now reused station. Why it is not a extension? I will not buy it .
     
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  10. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does strike me as being kind of odd that they have licensed containers. Both this and Tees Valley almost seem like they were meant to go further but had to be shoved out the door in time - Tees Valley really should have gone to Bishop Auckland and this should have gone at least as far as Düsseldorf. I wonder if the launch of TSW2020 and the longer than usual Peninsula Corridor might have caused this? As another note about the quality of the scenery, it seems like they've gotten their act together regarding mountains from MSB - the rock texture over on the left goes a long way towards selling the look, and there seems to be about 10x the number of trees as well.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    17 miles? That's a new low DTG. I'm scared for the future of this game and TS.
     
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  12. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    One thing I hope DTG won’t continue with is the continuous ‘half cut’ 20-30 mile or so route length, with each section of line put on a new map.

    Seriously, what’s the point remodelling a station all over again to put in a different map? Just provide extensions which gives the player much more options, as well as a longer route overall and provides for longer and more interesting journeys.

    Shorter routes also limit future use and potential for future loco DLC’s.

    Contingency anyone or does that not exist with this company?

    Players want longer routes. Not parts of the same route split up and put onto a different map.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  13. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well I personally agree almost 150%, unfortunately that poll over in the other thread speaks a very different language. I guess console kiddies can't focus on anything more than 30 minutes at a time anyway, so what would they need longer routes for.

    On the same note, a buddy's phone suggested replacing Mozart with mozzarella the other day. Signs of the times much...

    Technically it's not the same route though. The Ruhr-Sieg-Bahn ends in Hagen, The route in the new DLC continues to Dortmund vie Wetter and Witten. So splitting the two sort of make sense, only as Railfan722 already said, the new route appears sort of aborted mid-development. I mean, why Steinbeck out of all places? That's about as random a terminus as it gets. Wuppertal Hbf, Yeah OK.. Wuppertal-Vohwinkel, Gruiten, Solingen... all places not too far away that would have seemed much more "legit".
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  14. spina304

    spina304 Member

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    I guess Pc kiddies can't focus on anything more than 30 minutes at a time anyway, so what would they need longer routes for.
     
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  15. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    TS's future is fine....but for TSW, it's long term future is reliant on the editing tools / 3rd party support
     
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  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    I didn't see mention of this, I read it as a single stretch of railway between Hagen Hbf and Wuppertal-Steinbeck (27.4 Kms / 17.02 Miles) with the 2 yards (which may not add that much to the total mileage). Can any anyone else here clarify this ? I am not familiar with the network
     
  17. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Yes. This will be roughly the network we getting, according to the article:
    RRO.PNG
    The 17 miles refers to the end-to-end distance between Hagen and Wuppertal, but from Hagen to Schwelm we'll have two alternative routes. The one via Gevelsberg with many S-Bahn stops will be where the 422s go, the one via Ennepetal* is for the cargo trains and, if you own either RSN or MSB (or both), for regional services.

    *Not sure why Ennepetal is marked with an S-Bahn icon on Google Earth by the way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  18. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    It is stated in the article:
    And also in the newsletter that was sent out to subscribers of it:
    The two lines run very close to each other, but the main route only has one station. If you own neither MSB nor RSN, then no passenger trains will run on the main line. If you own at least one of those two DLCs, then Regional-Express trains will run from Hagen to Wuppertal via the main route, and Rhine-Ruhr S8 trains will run on the S-Bahn line that goes further north.
     
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  19. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    Thanks guys, that map is perfect and answers my question. For some reason I interpreted that as it just being a single line used for passenger and freight with a couple of crossovers
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  20. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome!

    Addendum: Regional Express services will stop at Wuppertal Hbf, Oberbarmen, Schwelm, Ennepetal and Hagen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  21. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Member

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    Not really, the article stated that if you already own Main Spessart Bahn or Ruhr Sieg Nord this new route will add more services from those locomotives of MSB/RSN, which will add more trains to the fun of this route!
     
  22. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Member

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    Hashtag complete service finished in the record time!!
     
  23. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Did you really just "hastag". Also, fair point with scenery and all that, but 20 miles is still unacceptable in my opinion. Though the monerail thingy looks interesting.
     
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  24. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    To be fair though, the Schwebebahn is just scenery (How awesome would it be if we could drive that around...maybe for a mod one day) and it had to be there otherwise everyone would be like "wheres the Schwebebahn?"

    I don't necessarily have an issue with the route length as long as it is priced accordingly. It will still have the usual amount of scenarios and a ton of services to keep us busy.
     
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  25. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I’m sure they will go into more detail in upcoming articles but thank you for explaining that and finding a map. I like the way they explain in it the subscriber news letter. 66C817B7-6F27-4583-980F-37DA6FDF8930.jpeg
     
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  26. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Active Member

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    In case DT needs a 1000 th reminder The German routes need a Desiel loco at this point any desiel loco just please add one,thank you.But i do like the new route...
     
  27. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    I share some of the sentiment expressed by others in this thread. The route does seem rather short on it's own and it appears from the consumer perspective to be a missed opportunity to extend RSN. Personally, I feel like making it an extension for those that own RSN while allowing those that don't own RSN to purchase it as a separate route would be a really nice move! That's obviously just conjecture on my part and I don't know how it would work logistically speaking nor do I want to presume how DTG should offer it's products.

    On a more positive note, the route certainly looks visually appealing! It looks "busy" in terms of both scenery and traffic with a lot to take in. The 422 is eye catching and I can't wait to get behind the controls! The German rolling stock has always been my favorite and this looks it's going to a fine addition to that collection. I would love to add a diesel to that list one day though :) The 185.5 looks handsome in it's new livery and the licensed containers are nice addition to make things more believable. Bringing the “Schwebebahn” into the route is also a nice touch I can appreciate.

    Overall, my opinion of the route so far is leaning towards a positive one. I do hope the price point is modest on this. Looking forward to seeing more guys.
     
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  28. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I, for one, welcome licenced containers to bring in some colour and variety, not to mention realism, into the routes. I can't imagine the cost would be particularly high and I'd like to think the person handling licensing for the game wouldn't otherwise be hard at work modelling a new route (I could be wrong, I don't know how small a team it is). The generic coloured wagons on GWE are pretty dull, so hopefully the containers filter out to other routes the way the locos can.
     
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  29. Piussi

    Piussi Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean the 422 doesn't run the S8 line?

    [​IMG]
     
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  30. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    Because it has a yard which will be the starting point of all freight services. HBF has nothing else than the platforms.
     
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  31. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well maybe I should elaborate why those containers itch me kind of wrong: First, I hardly ever drive cargo trains, but that's not the point. That's personal taste.

    But then, what a train simulator to me is about, is driving trains. Mastering the braking, getting from A to B safely and responsibly, without any penalty brakes, managing to stick to the timetable, yada yada. Whether the train (let alone the containers) has the correct logo... that does not really have an impact on any of that.
     
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  32. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Making a map rather, but yeah. I'm really curious whether DTG has some rabbits in the hat that they'll pull out that will turn this whole thing around. Kinda waiting for a miracle. In some ways, this is the add-on I've been waiting for all along, both the coice of route and trains is just as perfect as it gets. And then in other ways it's the worst I've ever seen from DTG. So, yeah. Hoping for a miracle.
     
  33. nicolo.gregori

    nicolo.gregori New Member

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    Is there any hope that comes out today?
     
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  34. Gae14

    Gae14 Member

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    There's a sale currently on TSW that ends on October 7, I guess it could be released just after on the 10th which is a thursday.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  35. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Active Member

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    With the new route we get a second railway provider for Germany.
     
  36. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Well-Known Member

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    so you're saying you cant drive this into Hagen, jump out and then drive a RSN service without going back to the menu? if so whats the point in even bothering to hope anymore......
     
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  37. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    As I said earlier, it’s a very short sighted move by DTG to build this route on a separate map rather than extend the current one and make it longer.

    The latter would’ve provided a lot more options and variety, as well as the number one thing players are constantly asking for; longer routes for TSW.

     
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  38. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    So,

    After reading more details about this route I can happily say I will not be buying it upon release. There’s just nothing from what I’ve seen which makes me want to part with my money. When it comes down in price, I’ll reconsider but until then I’ll wait to see what the new British route will be.

    For those who will buy this DLC, I really hope DTG prices it accordingly and not a full price of £24.99, that would be a real slap in the face.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  39. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Not in this forum unfortunately, but I remember very well how before the initial release of TSW, on Steam and such, a common complaint about TS2019 (well, TS2014 back then rather) was how its routes were all rather short compared to those of the original MSTS from which TS20xx orinigated. So why not make an all new capable simulator, preferably based on UE4, so we could get back to the olden golden days of 100 mile routes.
    Well, the UE4 simulator we did get, except with the very opposite results than we were all hoping for.

    At this point I'm very close to suggesting DTG to just sell the TSW franchise. Maybe something similar could happen as with MS Flight Simulator. When MS wanted to sell the IP, a few of the most talented and prominent 3rd party developers - rivals in everyday business - formed a consortium to purchase the franchise, except they were outbidded or whatever by You-know-who.

    Imagine TSW as a whole in the hands of DTG plus Armstrong Powerhouse, Virtual Railroads, JustTrains, MAYBE even Aerosoft... or a collaboration between them and more. Just imagine would could and probably would have been achieved by now. But not with DTG, who start building a route, half way through decide it's too much work, and cancel it saying, screw it, people will buy it anyway.

    I admit I've been somewhat guilty of that myself in the past (at least I waited for some reviews and then for a sale if they weren't good enough) but it's safe to say, that's over. This new DLC won't end up on my PC anytime soon. Just like the Bethesda pass ruined the Fallout series, the same seems to be happening slowly with TS/TSW.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  40. Lombra

    Lombra Member

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    At the same time you were clearly very concerned about the incorrectly modelled suspension train.

    There's nothing stopping any one of those companies from creating their own train simulator, though.
     
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  41. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I was concerned how EXTREMELY wrong it is. If it was just a slight inaccuracy, (like for example the WSW logo missing) I wouldn't have minded at all. You'll just see it from the corner of the eye anyway after all while you focus on driving your own train. Half the train missing is by far wrong enough to notice even then, though.

    DTG should fear the day they act upon that. Unless they come up with another Zusi or something like that maybe, graphics do sell after all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  42. Ninetofive925

    Ninetofive925 Well-Known Member

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    this looks quite interesting, but i'd like to know if you can hop in a journey from Wuppertal to Finnentrop (with a loading screen at Hagen hbf).
     
  43. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Will the MRCE livery be available on the BR182?
     
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  44. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Which is more important, the length of the route or the number and quality of the activities included with it? Honestly, I'd rather have quality activities (including, of course, shunting galore) than a long route with a lot of long passenger and freight runs.

    I just read the preview announcement again, noticing for the first time that this route's rolling stock will include "the container yard at Wuppertal-Langerfeld" and "brand new Sggmrss Container Wagons, complete with authentic Hamburg Süd and Hapag-Lloyd cargo containers". This leads me to hope that operational loading cranes may also be included.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  45. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Can't we have both?
     
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  46. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    FDB4F653-CF80-429D-BA05-BE5DF0849A30.jpeg
    Can the containers sub in on GWE? Or could you consider doing this?
     
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  47. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    The reason why Schwebebahn cabs are not entirely correct is that we do not have the tech yet to handle the motion of two cabs connected together - currently, all these models are static. The suspended railway had to be included, though, so we did it in the best way available to us.
     
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  48. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    That's a honest word, I appreciate that. I've read somewhere they're technically cars as they drive on the street? Maybe a solution to what would be, to define cars with trailers. That would also allow for, well, cars (or trucks) with trailers, bendy busses, all sorts of stuff. But you're right, Wuppertal without the Schweb is like London without the red double decker buses.
     
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  49. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    I am by no means a freight person but just as I'm sure you would want the passenger trains to have the correct liveries so do freight enthusaists want the containers to correctly reflect liveries that are in common use on freight trains.
     
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  50. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. No reason why we can't have both. MSB is technically that if that branch line to the port ever gets used. We can have actual shunting activities throughout the route using diesel switchers, maybe even a diesel passenger train to use those couple of stations, not to mention all of the traffic on the main line already. Right now it's kind of boring for freight services since you're only driving from point A to point B, but once that happens we can have actual freight diversity on the route.
     
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