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Tsw:hh Gp40 Released

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by NAYDOG, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Active Member

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  2. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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  3. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    The scenarios don't show up for me and the tutorial doesn't give the achievement for completing it. The loco itself looks pretty good though.
     
  4. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Verify game cache on Steam?
     
  5. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    Tried it but doesn't help.
     
  6. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    13,99€ is a bit too much in my opinion... I mean, its just one Train. I really hope you guys wont go the same way as flight sim world and release dlc's who cost twice as much as the base game in the future.
     
  7. Piussi

    Piussi Well-Known Member

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    See the prices for ts18 its the same price nothing new there.
    And you get new freight wagons to so its not only the train
     
  8. BailsBach

    BailsBach New Member

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    Disgusting price, disgusting business model. Considering making a formal complaint to Steam with this attitude to your customers. Shame on you Dovetail.
     
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  9. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    Performance is hilariously inconsistent between SD-40, GP-40 and GP-38. Yeah, we already know it's wrong, but it's wildly different now. For example, GP-38 does 0-60 mph in 20 seconds and GP-40 in 55 seconds. On the other hand, at least in this aspect GP-40 looks better than first batch of CSX locos.
    Even if current on traction motors is still wrong in the same way as before, tractive effort feels much more on point and starting with not that long manifest train takes considerable time. Glimpses of some positive changes?

    Update: An oil train (service K145), 0-20 Mph with a single loco:
    SD-40 - 1:15
    GP-40 - 3:50
    Now this performance looks much closer to how it should have been.
    TrainSim-Jay any comments? Will older locos be adjusted in the same way?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  10. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit I'm struggling with this comment; how much do you think they should be charging for it and what business model do you think they should be following?

    Personally I think the price is reasonable and more or less in line with the TS20xx series. I wasn't expecting DTG to do it much differently with TSW.

    I'm not really surprised the GP-40 and SD-40 are sharing services. I imagine that there are only so many services that can be fit onto Sand Patch before crowding the line and CSX probably interchange the locos themselves working similar jobs.

    That being said; there was an opportunity to add in a couple of unique services around the mines at Rockwood and Shaw. I'm looking forward to the release of the scenario tools in the future as Gary Dolzall \ High Iron Simulations are bound to make some cracking scenarios.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  11. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    “Clearly Dovetail should be giving people money to download all their junky stuff, right?” -Typical attitude in a nutshell right there. Unfortunately, doing that is not a “business” but a charity, what all the entitled folks out there think as what DTG should be doing for a business model is not a business model at all.
     
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  12. Alaskan Jack

    Alaskan Jack Member

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    can you make you own train consist now adding freight cars to your engines? With the new GP40 update
     
  13. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Not that I'm aware. To be honest; they'd probably have to do a major rework of the Services mode to allow for that or add in another mode altogether. I doubt it's on their to-do list.

    I'm hoping their to-do list involves adding this new route they're teasing us with and then doing a lot of bugfixing.
     
  14. Piussi

    Piussi Well-Known Member

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    I have read that there is coming a bug fix update around the time of the newt route. Maybe even earlier.
     
  15. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    I'm thoroughly enjoying GP40 and its more realistic performance, though its interchangeability with SD40 in services proves troublesome sometimes. With a heavy autorack (Q261 for instance) you can't get over Sand Patch grades without frying your traction motors, as you'll be pulling at 1200-1400 amps uphill for a looong time.

    Non-notched dynamic brakes are pure pleasure in operation.

    Also GP40 and SD40 cooling fans (the ones for engine) are spinning in different directions with different speeds for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  16. BenDragon81037

    BenDragon81037 Member

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    I honestly don't think it's worth buying the GP40-2, concidering it's EMD, which uses mainly standard components in their designs (cab, bogies, dynamic brake systems, control stand etc...) for £12, even if it does contain a 48ft coil car and a 53ft centrebeam flatcar.

    You'd get more value for money with one of the old MSTS content packs or ETS2 where you get a rebuilt country or entire sets.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  17. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    As much as this post was downvoted, given that GWE has a non-sale price of $29.99 USD, and this is selling for $19.99, the pricing is somewhat inconsistent. A route with 3 trains is only $10 more than one locomotive with two freight cars? If it brought on some new major features that added to the sim, I would get that, but from what I can tell, it doesn't, nothing that makes it much more special than anything else already available. Hopefully going forward DTG evaluates this and considers reducing the price of future DLC, but compared to the other TSW DLC, this valuation doesn't make a lot of sense. I get that they have to make money, but something doesn't add up.
     
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  18. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    What doesn't add up is that GWE requires CSX. If GWE were on its own, it would be $40. Said by the man himself, Matt.
     
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  19. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    Which would imply DTG values the core engine and base game at about $10. So from how I look at pricing, 1 locomotive is $20 USD. 3 locomotives/trains and a route are $30, and the base engine is $10, combined with a route package.

    What I'm getting at is that if we look at what we are and will be potentally paying for DLC in the future, the pricing is not consistent, regardless of what "the man himself" says. A bit of a ripoff in my opinion is all when you break down the value of everything offered so far.
     
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  20. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    With most AAA-Games today i get about 2h of gameplay-value per 1$. With the money spent so far and the 110h i have accumulated so far its in the same range. So i have to say in total its priced about right. Clearly its not spread out right, the GP40-2 DLC is overpriced for the content and gamplay it adds. And that it has a quality comparable to CSX-HH at release... Has anyone even testplayed those scenarios with the last builds??
     
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  21. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone ever estimated how long it would take to finish every service on CSX HH?
     
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  22. BailsBach

    BailsBach New Member

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    It seems my opinion triggered people. When the game has still got game breaking bugs, and the last update was 2 months ago, I'm pretty certain I have the right to express my frustration with Dovetail.

    The fact that they're charging close to the same price as TSW: CSX Heavy Haul on sale for 1 loco and some tatty scenarios is incomprehensibly stupid, and to me, the people that buy these overpriced DLCs are in the same league of stupidity.

    I bought CSX Heavy Haul to run on a computer which was advertised as 'recommended' in the specs, and yet I was getting 18fps. (EDIT: I checked and they've changed the minimum specs - and I wasn't advertised of this. I'm calling that foul practice).
    Now, there's been about 5 fps improvement on average, and many bugs are still within the game. Furthermore, new bugs have been added to the checklist.

    It's great that they seem to be focusing on content, but the fact of the matter is that their base game is rated 'Mixed' on Steam because of the multiple issues it has. There is no scenario editor, the train physics are unrealistic, the sounds are pretty bad, the performance is terrible, there's still no multiplayer (which seems less likely by the day), they reused assets from Railworks, they reused sounds from Railworks, the map quality (especially Great Western Express) varies and is extremely inconsistent and there are bugs everywhere.

    I'm pretty stunned that there are people who defend their practices of what I consider taking advantage of the customer.

    When I purchase a product, I expect it to work out of the box. If it doesn't, then the product shouldn't be worthy to be sold on store shelves. And yet, Dovetail seem to avoid the topic that their game is still broken and has been broken since its release back in MARCH, and due to this -
    I will not be supporting Dovetail any further in trying to monopolise the simulation game industry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  23. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is entitled to disagree with your opinion both without being 'triggered' and without being subjected to the petulant claim of being 'triggered'.

    You do, as do we all and we all have the right to disagree with one another and put forth counter argument. If you look throughout these forums you'll see we're not shy on pointing out every bug we've found in the game. We've also run a poll asking the community what they want from DTG, which pointed firmly towards bugfixing. DTG acknowdedged it.

    As far as opinions go that is a pretty rude one. It's difficult to legitimise your argument and win support when you're tarring everyone with the stupid brush.

    No, not yet. DTG have stated that the tools they use to create routes and scenarios are quite complex and not user friendly. So they have to use complicated tools to create a simpler toolset for us all to use. That doesn't sound easy but I'm willing to bet it's a high priority for them.

    In a lot of respects, yes they are. This is one of main sets of bugs we've been highlighting to DTG and I'm hoping they address this very soon.

    Yes and DTG acknowledged that recently on train-simulator.com in response to someone. They have stated the issue lies within the Unreal 4 engine and are awaiting an update to it first.

    To be perfectly honest; multiplayer was always going to be a long time coming and I'm not entirely sure much of a demand there is for it. Keep in mind that adding multiplayer adds a lot of complexity to a game and requires extra staff managing servers and so on. Multiplayer can also cause distractions from the single player game. GTA V never had any single player story pack add-ons because Rockstar were entirely focused on GTA Online.

    Can you prove that? It's the first I've heard of it.

    Since when are DTG trying to monopolise the simulation game industry? They have two train simulators; a flight simulator and a fishing simulator.

    There are other flight simulators that compete with FSW on the market. There are other train simulators on the market, although I don't know if they are on par with TSW or TS20xx. As for fishing simulators... what can I say? Is there a huge demand?

    Worth noting that DTG haven't gone into truck simulation where SCS Software are king; bus simulation which is somewhat poorly served or even farm simulation. They're hardly monopolising.
     
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  24. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    Corvan They use building assets from Railworks as distant scenery in GWE (which is okay in my opinion) and a van from Railworks (which is questionable).[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  25. Piussi

    Piussi Well-Known Member

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    The first game without bugs and surely when first release is still to come.. every game has there bugs. There are alot of things to fix yes. But they are working on it. Somewhere i have read that there is coming an update around the release of the next dlc.
     
  26. BailsBach

    BailsBach New Member

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    It's funny how you decided to ignore the 'people defending their practices'.
     
  27. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean this? I highlighted the important part for you.

    Have you considered that we don't feel like we're being taking advantage of? That we're giving DTG time to fix some of the mistakes they've made before we condemn them?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  28. BailsBach

    BailsBach New Member

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    Don't you think that 9 months is plenty of time?
     
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  29. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    For some of the bugs yes, absolutely.

    For example; the bug where the needles of the CSX locomotives are just black at night with no illumination whatsoever could've been fixed ages ago. It was highlighted again before the GP40-2 release but it's on that locomotive as well. Also; the issue with the lights \ shaders flickering at Cumberland on CSX Heavy Haul could've also been fixed. The developers and QA testers must've been aware of it when developing the GP40-2.

    I'm sure there's some other bugs they could've sorted out by now as well. Frankly I think their QA process leaves a lot to be desired.

    On the audio issues; I don't believe 9 months is enough because if it is true that DTG are waiting for a specific update for the Unreal 4 engine then there isn't much they can do about it. It sounds like they started investigating the issue and found themselves stuck.

    Also in regards physics; it looks like a lot of the physics issues are inherent in this SimuGraph engine they've built and I'm willing to assume it's a complex creation that struggling to sort out. I'd give them more time on that.

    It's my fervent wish, and I believe the wish of many other community members here, that after the release of Rapid Transit on the 14th that DTG will focus inwards and start wiping out as many of the remaining bugs as possible. I can't quite see how they can continue releasing content while leaving the core system damaged. I keeping hearing there should be a patch on the 14th alongside Rapid Transit so we might see something then.

    All that being said; if they continue throughout 2018 with nothing but releases and no apparent bugfixing I could easily find myself soured with the whole thing.
     
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  30. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    Well I certainly intend to keep my wallet shut after the Rapid Transit release until at least a scenario editor and PIS functionality appear as well some decent blitzing of bugs taking place. I feel I've carried out my side of the bargain by supporting the initial releases and now it's time for DTG to deliver.
     
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  31. Lombra

    Lombra Member

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    This doesn't really make sense unless you are talking about hostile takeovers or not playing fair somehow. If a better product comes along people will buy that and there won't be any monopoly.

    Other than that I might agree that the DLC is rather steeply priced, having only one loco that's also very similar to the already existing ones. One important thing to keep in mind though, is that new routes and locos should not notably affect their ability to fix bugs, as there should be little overlap among people modeling locos and maps, and people working on general simulation and programming that's common to the entire platform. Of course, each new loco requires some amount of programming specific to that loco, but the more glaring issues should be ones that are common to the whole platform.
     

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