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Tsw: Introducing Hauptstrecke Rhein-ruhr!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Although I am having teething problems with getting used to not having a DS4 as a combined train control, viewing controller, and pointer/grabber thing.... I have found some promise with the extensive South London Network... plus London to Brighton, London to Portsmouth and London to Gillingham using units like the 415, 419, 444, 450, 455, 456, 375, 377, 378, 421, 422, 423, 442, 319, Class 73 with Gatwick Express DVT, 402...um, etc.... I haven't yet tried the 25kV stuff on WCML (inc. stuff like Post Office EMUs...), etc.

    Maybe this is the future for TSW....? I can see DTG rolling out London to Brighton, as a TSW DLC, fairly soon... maybe...? Until then - grab a PC, and for under £50 you could be rolling with multiple routes (£5 each) and multiple inter-changeable rolling stock (from £2 each) - um... including steam. There's even a free hand-pump trolley on Steam (presumably from the 1860s...)... LOL. ;-)

    TS2020 also has a largely functional UI, which seems to sensibly record career progress, and you get scored on things like driving quality (reverser use), wheel-slip, braking moderation, as well as timeliness... etc. It's really bizarre - because until now, my understanding was that a key criticism with TSW was that it was too much like a "game", or somehow much more casual..... but TS2020 has got all of the "gaming" functions you'd expect on PS4 - and they largely work. It's a real eye-opener, for someone transitioning*** from TSW to TS2020.... ;-O

    ***Um - probably will be dual-running.... LOL... (crikey, it'll be expensive.... ;-O )
     
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  2. Paulo_1997

    Paulo_1997 Member

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    Ok Guys, I just created an account to comment in this thread! :D

    First, I have to say, that I am a huge train fan since my birth and the trains of DB are beautiful!
    When I first heard of TSW I thought I'd been dreaming. Due to an health issue I couldn't fulfill my dream, becoming a train driver, so it (TSW) was a must have for me, since my PC wasn't good enough to run TS. I must say, I can't share any sympathy for UK or US trains, so my focus as a DB fan lies on the german trains and routes. Leipzig with the BR 442 was a first impressive experience, even though it gets a little boring after a while due to the lack of impressiveness at both ends of the route. A big improvement was made with the next routes RSN and MSB. Beautiful landscapes with new locomotives, "Doppelstock" and freight wagons. Those two were even more fun and excitement for me. But as this wasn't enough, DTG brought us RRO! At this point I must say, that I moved from Dortmund (NRW) to Stuttgart (Baden-Württemberg) quiet a year ago. So RRO was (after RSN) the second route, which I know as I rode the train on these routes mostly. Now I only ride this route once a month. But with RRO and now HRR, they make my dreams come true. Driving a train on a route which I greatly know. And the choice between BR 422 and 425 is mad!

    And here I come to the rating of this DLC... I don't care, if the route is "only" 35 minutes long. The priorities I have are a good choice of locos/EMU's and a great setting. In RRO,RSN and MSB, the setting was wonderful imo. I know, that you probably can't transfer a setting like Wuppertal or Hagen 1 on 1 to a game like TSW and I think at some point, that the capacities on the PS4 are coming to an end, but I'm happy with what DTG makes out of it and I'm confident that they'll do great in HRR. The BR 425 is a great choice and I'm very excited as I can almost hear the trains sound!
    Of course, an ICE would be a great experience, but I think we'll have to wait for it one or two DLC's longer.

    I surely will purchase the DLC on 24th and maybe I can give some of you an impression of it, to make it easier for you to decide.

    Until then, stay healthy! ;) #corona
     
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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well it is the same policy really which they have been using since the release of Rail Simulator and seems to have stood them the test of time. I think many people are often attracted when something new is released even if they have said "I have enough now".
     
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  4. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    Count me in the basket of people getting SICK of the overall decrease in the amount of content. That was the reason I didn't buy Oakville (dodged a bullet there!) and is the same reason why I won't buy this route on release if they don't pull something new out of their sleeves.

    Kudos to the route building team for creating more detailed routes, especially the German ones seem to be a notch above the others. But the price for that is shorter and shorter routes, each feeling more and more... incomplete.

    People won't give their hard-earned money so easily if they feel they're getting shafted in the process.
     
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  5. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure how much more I can put with short routes being released. I mean I would be willing to wait if that is what it takes to have a longer route to be developed. Or at least be honest with us and not dodge the question can these existing routes be extended. If they could honestly answer that question and the answer would be yes. Then I might be able to put up with buying the short routes knowing that there is a possibility they can be extended.

    But for me I would like to have a route as long as or even longer than the CSX route with more to do.
     
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  6. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    ..... I logged in just to "like" your post and say "Hi"... I think that if you are fan of trains, and if you have a personal connection to a particular route or train..... then getting TS2020/TSW with your almost bespoke dedicated DLC is an easy decision. I do hope that you come back and give a detailed review of your informed impressions of the route....!

    I am firmly in the minority group that believes that "route length doesn't matter". If there is enough to do, and the package is put together well (and marketed honestly), then that's all you need. The GWE route on TSW is one of the longer ones - and to be honest, the HST services, and the Class 66 services are almost pointless - they are mostly non-stop services along a flat straight route that has a 125 mph max linespeed. There is nothing to do. Thankfully it has the 166 commuter stuff, but that's a really very easy drive, but good fun after a glass of cherry-flavoured cola.

    Aside: I just ran a HAL-2 service from Bromley South to Victoria for the first time (under 15 km) ... and that was very busy work to keep the speed up, and I still got zero "career points" because I ended up being two minutes late for the last half of the journey... It makes you want to try the scenario again, and again and again.

    This new HRR route should be quite a good one. And if anyone has tested the content, before selling it, then that will be a bonus. It will take its place alongside some very similar quite good German routes. But perhaps most people only really need MSB, where all the rolling stock is known to work (unlke the DB BR 155 on RSN on PS4). So - this route is not on my list for purchase at anywhere near full price, or anytime soon. But.... I do hope that you enjoy it... and I have a sneaking suspicion that you will really love it... ! ;-)

    Share & Enjoy....!
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
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  7. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    The killer with Oakville was that you knew it would be short, but the "expansive yards at Hamilton" would make up for it... if they really existed....

    Anyway - I just bought a copy of the "Doncaster Works" route for £1.19. (The decimal point is in the correct place). I expected to just get a recreation of the workshop at Doncaster - and that would be enough for me - just four tracks maybe, and a line out of the building to a head-shunt. But no - that is not what I got...

    They appear to have modelled the entire Doncaster site.... circa late 1970s or early 1980s.... It is quite insane just how many yards, lines, and switches and buildings are included... along with working industrial machinery, like diggers, etc...

    I am telling you - the Doncaster Works route.... it is expansive.... it is.... "almost a route unto itself". And it costs just over £1.
     
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  8. A_normal_name

    A_normal_name Member

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    Any release date?
     
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  9. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    24th March
     
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  10. doc_woods

    doc_woods Member

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    Probably off-topic for this thread but you may grow to find this frustrating. It may surprise you to learn that not all the scenarios are thoroughly tested, so there's no real guarantee that the timetable is achievable. Even where it is do-able you often end up needing to use maximum acceleration all the time and brakes slammed on to full at exactly the right moment. It may present a challenge, but not necessarily a particularly realistic challenge.
     
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  11. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Actually - I think that your post here is extremely relevant to the new HRR DLC on TSW. Very very on topic, for any new DLC for TSW cross-platform.

    I would absolutely expect every single scenario on TSW to be tested - if the software is being sold for use on PS4. It must be fit for purpose. I would expect all of the content to be tested to work on all of the platforms that HRR is being sold on.

    As an absolute minimum..... I would expect the Introduction/Training modules to be fully stress-tested for new users, that buy TSW for the first time, to use the HRR route. Fully play-tested. I would expect the instructions and hover labels to both be properly translated, and matching... and for the status and/or function of a control to be clear to understand, from the wording used.

    Also - as an absolute minimum..... I would expect the curated Scenarios, and the curated service modules under "Journey" to be extensively tested, to check that they can be completed, as expected/designed.

    Also - as an absolute minimum..... I would expect every single service in the Timetable Mode, which might have been created without actually running them.... to be tested for two minutes - just to see if they open, and to check that the first signal isn't red - so that the service can, at least, be started.

    And - if a specific new bit of rolling stock is being included with HRR, or if a new bit of rolling stock is later issued explicitly for HRR, then I would also expect that rolling stock to be tested, on all platforms, before the route or loco DLC is put on sale...... unlike what happened with DB BR 155 on RSN on PS4.

    There is a potentially reasonable situation where you can expect the software to not be tested . And that is the situation where the marketing makes it clear that the product has not been tested, and that it is not expected to work or function. If they make that clear, up-front, before money is taken, then I would have no problem with the software not being tested, or it not working.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
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  12. A_normal_name

    A_normal_name Member

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    Hopefully the 425 will work In tunnels ;)
     
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  13. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yep. You can hope.

    I think it would be great if the maker of the 425 let us know if it was tested on PC, XBox and PS4. If the maker can't even make a simple statement to say that the unit was checked, and found to be functional, then I don't think that you can have much hope. You should expect the worst possible outcome. That's how it is with the DB BR 155.
     
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  14. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    I like that new route. Sure it's not so long like PC or NTP. But with that route I have the opportunity to travel virtual trough the center of the industrial heart of Germany, the "RUHRGEBIET". The route will bring variety in landscape too. On the one side there are the urban or industrial areas. So we will have the areas around the main stations in Duisburg, Mühlheim, Essen and Bochum. Than we have the yards at Mühlheim Styrum and Bochum Ehrenfeld and the DB Regio Maintanace Center in the west from Essen Mainstation. On the other side there are the rural areas between the cities. And it's nice too that we will have freigh action if we own MSB. Perhaps there will be DLCs for that route in future that bring IC and Ice trains and diese shunters. That would make that route perfectly authentic. But in the mean time I will enjoy playing that route with S-Bahn-, Regional- and freight action.
     
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  15. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    I read the article only once when it was released, but I don't remember them mentioning all of this.
    "we will have the areas around the main stations in Duisburg, Mühlheim, Essen and Bochum"
    "we have the yards at Mühlheim Styrum and Bochum Ehrenfeld and the DB Regio Maintanace Center in the west from Essen Mainstation."

    Where do you get the certainty we will be getting these?
     
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  16. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    I meant you can see the areas around the stations. For instance on one screenshot in the article you can see the nice modeled TV tower in the near of Duisburg mainstation.
     
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  17. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    im not sure if i will buy the HRR route straight away until i see reports about it and i know that im not getting ripped off again like with Oakville. And im not sure about buying the new diesels for that American route as it only has 11 services. im very weary of now buying stuff straight away so its probably sales from now on, at least if i get ripped off it wont cost as much.
     
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  18. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Please DTG even if un real life the BR182 doesn’t run on this line add some passenger services in it I’m really tired of just using it on RT I love the Taurus
     
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  19. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    DC630AB3-BBA2-49C1-90CE-3EF88C338487.jpeg No it’s not Reality on this Routes.
    They Can make the BR 143 with X-Wagen for S1 from the Past
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
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  20. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    You have Steam refund (if you're on PC) so no worries about being scammed. Plus, given how short the route is, you can probably run the route multiple times in both directions before the 2 hour refund limit is up. I would recommend everyone buy the route, if what you see from the dev stream is appealing to you. This is a win win situation, because if you enjoy the route, you get the 10% pre order discount, but if you don't like it, just refund before 2 hours playtime, and you get all of your money back!
     
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  21. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    im not on a PC i use PS4 so no refunds and no we have never had pre order discounts
     
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  22. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Sony has a shitty system when it comes to refund we have no guaranties. The only time when Sony give you a refund is when you bought by accident and you never ever played the DLC bought, only then they refund but the money will go directly into your wallet and not your bank account. I don’t know about the Xbox but it must be the same
     
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  23. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    Definitely wait for a stream before preordering, it's a basic consumer precaution.
    If PS4 and Xbox users don't get a discount anyway, it's best to wait for reviews.
     
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  24. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    After looking at the stream, given route length and map layout, I'll not buy this route full price. BR425 model seems nice, but nothing new or special, basically a BR422.
     
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  25. 7orenz

    7orenz Active Member

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    HRR first look streaming/video:


    As I previously supposed, the route is very interesting and high-detailed but the variety of services (without IC and ICE) is very little (always the same double-cars and RE EMUs). Especially for people who already got all the previous German DLCs (like me).
     
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  26. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Member

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    Wow, nice sounds on this one, I can truly consider buying the route, I already own MSB (and all the other german routes) so there will be enough traffic to enjoy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  27. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Active Member

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    I'm quite excited for the route- looks like it's gonna be fun, and i like that we can use the 143, 155, etc. Thanks for posting this btw!
     
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  28. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    I'm skipping my turn. Always the same scenarios. No diversity.
    DTG, you have lost the sense of innovation.
    Really disappointed with all of this.
     
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  29. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I’ve never purchased a German DLC, Rapid Transit came with the game and I haven’t touched it since completing the scenarios. Every German DLC feels the same from what I’ve seen, I’m sure there are plenty of differences but not enough for me to part with my money.
     
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  30. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    RSN and MSB both have a similar 'feel' with both having gradients and being far curvier than RT. RRO is more built-up, feeling more urban and with far more frequent stops than the others. RSN also seems to default to older locos whereas RRO feels more modern.
     
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  31. JonnE

    JonnE Member

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    I'll skip this one too (again, unfortunately).
    The route may be one of the very few in germany to include IC / ICE services despite its short length but they're still not included. This is a huge opportunity missed in my opinion. It would add such a massive amount of variety to the game.
    The 425 and also the route are looking great but for me thats not the point.
    All german routes, yes even MSB although they are RB Services there, are mainly S-Bahn like routes with more or less amount of freight. Peninsular corridor with baby bullet alone has a higher variety to offer.

    So as a customer the main reason for me to buy this would be either the 425 or some emotional bondings due to RL experiences... and although I like the 425 I'd rather spend the same amount of money in nearly 3 months of xbox game pass. Sorry. :/
     
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  32. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I quickly flicked through some of the March Madness streams, including the pre-Release for this route. HRR looks to me like a "Shake and Bake" route. The cake ingredients are in a bag - just add water. It's a nice reliable and easy to make cake, that tastes sugary and creamy - just like the previous cake you made with the same ingredients. It might even work quite well. It will probably be built quite well to work on PC. But if the guys that designed the audio for the DB BR 155 were involved with the sounds for the rolling stock on HRR, then HRR might not work on PS4. So PS4 users should probably avoid HRR, at least until the DB BR 155 is fixed to work on RSN, on PS4.

    What I didn't understand (more generally, from the Streams) is why the TSW Dev team have been doing all of the work necessary to map the XBox controls to a toy guitar, so that they can run steam trains with a toy guitar on TS2020. How about properly implementing the Rail Driver controller... or fixing the keyboard mappings for PS4....? Why isn't it a higher priority to assign the apostrophe to the brakes on the PS4....? Or maybe fixing the PS4's DS4 controller guide in the UI (a two-minute job), so that it is complete and accurate...? Seriously - why the guitar....? Maybe use the guitar-modding time to make a quick phone call to the guys that failed to get the DB BR 155 to work on RSN on PS4....?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  33. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    I've thought the same thing when seeing the stream. It's just a huge slap on the face of all the people who have been asking for raildriver support since the launch of the game (this is just the steam thread on the topic: https://steamcommunity.com/app/530070/discussions/0/1797403972728914718/).

    But well, they are DTG. No surprise.
     
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  34. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    synthetic.angel Hopefully in the next route or core code is that special line implemented just for you:
    if(username == "Synthetic.Angel") { route.rsn.audio.tunnel.volume = 0; }

    And the guituar thing is a spare time thing. So what....
     
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  35. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I think that you are right, in spirit, about the spare time to play with the guitar thing. And if the March Madness streams were not in any sense tied to a commercial product, as part of a marketing scheme, which is related to work... then I would 100% agree with you. As others have said - it's just a bit of a slap in the face.

    Regarding: if(username == "Synthetic.Angel") { route.rsn.audio.tunnel.volume = 0; }

    Well, I must admit, I am very honoured to be given special attention in the coding. It's almost like you think that the DB BR 155 issue is personal. It isn't. The problem with the audio for the DB BR 155 on RSN on PS4 affects all players that purchased the DB BR 155 (and RSN) on PS4. However frustrated the developer might feel that attention is being given to his/her utter failure to do something really very simple, like test their product on all platforms, it is the customer that is always right. And not fixing the problem affects all PS4 customers.

    All I am saying is that if you are on PS4 - then you need to be very wary about buying the German DLCs - it might well work fine on PC, but there isn't any evidence with the DB BR 155 that anyone can be bothered to test it on PS4, and if the German DLC is very broken on PS4, like the DB BR 155, then there isn't any evidence that the developer can be bothered to fix it either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  36. JonnE

    JonnE Member

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    To be fair I remember using a guitar hero controller for xbox 360 a couple of years ago. The mapping was nearly no work at all and you could basically play anything with it...
    Same thing with the elite controler nowadays. I created a tsw profile with some proper mappings for the additional keys in about 5 Minutes... so there definetely wasn't much energy spent on this.
    And because of the posts of Maik Goltz in the last couple of weeks I highly doubt there will be some gamebreaking issues with the 425 on any platform. :)

    The whole thing is a bit weird... TSW and also this route despite its length have so much potential but still there's always a feeling that only 10% of this potential is actually used... and delivering more of this potential as a separate DLC is the main reason why TS2020 is nearly always ranked #1 at gaming magazines lists for ripoffs... which isn't quite fair (and not my opinion!) but unfortunately this is the image delivered to the vast majority of players of platforms.

    So as a train fan from germany my feelings always tend between 'oh my god this looks GREAT' and 'd*mn it why not more?' ...
     
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  37. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    You are just a bit to serious about that guitar thing. You told us earlier that you own some sort of humor. So please, let it out for the guitar thing. That was just a bit of fun.

    For the rest. I cant tell you whats happen on PS4. I am not able to test anything on PS4 and i dont knwo how this even works for DTG. So please, dont ask me about PS4 stuff anymore. I do have a PS4 pro, and i hate it because its way to loud, so i use it only for exclusives to play.
     
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  38. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    So the new DLC may not have been tested to any real extent on PS4? That's useful to know, thanks. #definitelywaitingforasaleonthisone
     
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  39. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Didn't said that. I said that i don't know it. I'm not at DTG. I'm 100% sure that it was getting tested on PS4. But i don't know how they do it. If they have a dev kit, or whatever.
     
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  40. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are right. In these dark times, you need to have a little bit of fun. I am hoping that one day, say, in a devStream, that just for fun - someone will demonstrate a DB BR 155 running through tunnels on RSN, fully working with normal sounds..... on a PS4. Just for a bit of fun.

    Um......

    You don't test stuff on PS4......?


    You make stuff for TSW, but you don't test it on PS4.........?


    You make stuff for TSW, but you don't test it on PS4, but it still gets sold on PS4.........?


    And - you don't even like using a PS4.


    Oh wow. Oh My Facebooking*** Google***........... Wow....!


    OKAY. My terms are not strong enough. I think I now want to say this:


    If you own a PS4 - do not ever buy any German DLC for TSW. Not until all of the developers involved are prepared to test the content on PS4.

    This includes HRR - as on the pre-Release stream...um... Matt said.... that Maik Goltz helped with the audio. And Maik has now said he doesn't like PS4. He actually hates PS4.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ***Apologies for the foul language, and for taking Google's name in vain.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  41. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    It was clearly seen that you get it totally wrong. I will let it so, as you never wanted to hear anything but your own opinion. Think what you want about it. And i can hate PS4 as much as i want. Doent mean anything to TSW content at least.

    PS: i dont get the idea off my mind that you already think that i have something to do with the 155 ... but no, i didnt, i wish i would, but i didnt.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  42. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    This was pretty much my exact thought process! They've made a big deal about Maik being involved and he'd previously been very clear about thoroughly testing his content, so I had high hopes that there would be an overall improvement in QA for this new route. This is quite the revelation!
     
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  43. Mikey_9835

    Mikey_9835 Well-Known Member

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    He's not a dev, he made audio for the 425 thats it. It's not his job to test things on all platforms.
     
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  44. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    if DTG got the raildriver working id go out and buy one for my PS4.

    As for the guitar thing i thought it was absolutely ridiculous and pathetic
     
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  45. Mikey_9835

    Mikey_9835 Well-Known Member

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    Oh ligten up, it was harmless fun.
     
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  46. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    My god that stupid synthetic angel is really annoying to always talking about the BR 155 like a bot I wish we can hide members one day on this forum
     
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  47. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    That's not really important to Synthetic.Angel or others as they dont want to know the whys, they just want to stand on their opinions without to move any bit from it. I will stop getting into these discussions as my English is not good enough to defende myself against such people like .Angel. Think what you want to think about me. It's not important at all. I said what i can say. For the rest please ask anyone else.
     
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  48. doc_woods

    doc_woods Member

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    Click on the user's name to go to their profile. Top right corner. "Report Ignore Follow". You want "ignore".
     
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  49. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    You know there actually is an Ignore button on profile pages already, if you so require it?

    I think his point is a valid one here though - it may not be Maik's job to test his own content, the concern is that everybody throughout the process is also passing the buck, and if an audio bug on the new 425 raises its head on one particular platform, that too will go unfixed for the next couple of years. Maik won't be bothered about fixing it - he hates the PS4.
     
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  50. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Where did he say he won't be bothered about fixing it?
     
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