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Tsw Just Not Cutting It With The Pc Crowd!

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by longo239, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Did a quick comparison on SteamDB and it seems that the TSW franchise as a whole is just not hitting the right note at the moment with the PC user.

    As the "future of rail simulation" what's going wrong and what's needed to make it better?

    chart.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  2. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    I can understand why TS customers who spent a lot for their favorite routes and locos (which aren't in TSW) would keep playing TS.

    It will be interesting to see if the trend changes once more new TSW2 routes and locos are released.

    One month since TSW2 has been released, I wouldn't say things are going wrong.
    • DTG seems to be making a good effort to address some of the issues that have been raised.
    • The roadmap shows a lot of projects in planning or development.
    • We're starting to get some community mods and reskins for TSW2.
    Those reasons make me think that things are looking up for PC users.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think it is the variety of routes of TS1 which make it more popular. I use it a lot more although I enjoy jumping into TSW and driving.

    It will take time for it to get close to offering the varied content of TS1, it needs steam for a start.

    I think long term it will get there but until there is much more variety and a more comprehensive scenario editor then it is TS1 first for me.
     
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  4. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    I think long term it will get there

    Is that how the gaming world works these days? Does usage increment slowly (and the numbers don’t hint at the incremental increase) over time? You’re also ignoring that DTG are showing no love for the Legacy product, and haven’t for years, in making plenty of new DLC available. They provided the much needed 64 bit upgrade and then didn’t meaningfully leverage the new capabilities that would provide for new DLCs. Despite that there’s no sign of people moving away from TSxxxx in useful numbers.

    I’ve always questioned whether DTG really understood their customer base. Yes people would like better graphics, but were they willing to trade route length, scenario flexibility, the user content, and the sheer depth of rolling stock that was available for TSxxxx for that? Someone at DTG convinced the powers that be that they would. I think that was mistaken.

    Personally I haven’t used TSxxxx since I acquired TSW and TSW2 but I’m beginning to wonder if that’s a mistake. Much as I used to curse the editor inTSxxxx there was a lot that you could do with it. Then there was all of the great free content and I’m thinking of sites like Backdatedtrainsim and the excellent North London line. All of that is missing from TSW.

    What would the TSxxxx numbers look like if DTG put some effort into leveraging the 64 bit capability in particular with some new routes. They’ll never match TSW of course in visuals but people like Armstrong Powerhouse continually demonstrated that there was far more that TSxxxx could do than DTG ever managed.

    Presumably DTG show TSxxxxx so little love as they don’t want it to compete against the newer products. That might be another strategic mistake. If nothing else perhaps there’s a market for both approaches?
     
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  5. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Active Member

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    It'll pick up. As it stands there's only 2 new routes in TSW2, which at the moment lack Ai traffic and variety, so some might of got bored quickly. But would've thought the livery and scenario designer would've kept some interested. Clearly not. Once new routes start coming out and other updates made it'll probably pick up. I don't think anything has gone wrong. It'll just take some time. I think it would be a problem if numbers were low at release and never increased.
     
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  6. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    There were more than two routes for TSW2020 but it never got close to the user base on PC that the TS series has.

    I appreciate there's a massive amount of content for the longer established TS, but from the look of it, TSW appears to be lacking more than just content.
     
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  7. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think more content and variety will bring more regular users.

    When Rail Simulator came out it took a long time for me to abandon MSTS, although Rail Simulator had an editor after a year and scenario creation seemed easier than activity creation in MSTS, so the lack of a comprehensive scenario editor might hamper it a little.

    Then again you have service mode which you can set for any season and weather and different times so that goes a little way to making up for the lack of a comprehensive scenario editor.
     
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  8. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I've played, and enjoyed, TS for thousands of hours. I've built up a pretty large collection of DLC. But as my collection growed, I got more "out of memory" errors. After months of not having played TS, I recently booted it up again. And again, I got that dreaded error.

    TS main flaw isn't the dated graphics. It's the unstability of this outdated piece of software.

    I think DTG made the right choice making a new platform, because I'm pretty sure TS has had it's best time. It took TS quite some time to get the popularity it has now, so it will also take TSW quite a while. Although TSW may still be behind on PC player numbers, don't forget that TSW is also available on consoles, having a wider audience.
     
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  9. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Personally, TS has no advantage over TSW except for amount of content. You have relatively old graphics, which of course are not all in life, and you can't walk around. The last one being the major negative point for me.
    Consider this, I startet train simming in the last steam summer sale, TSW2020 being my first ever train simulator. At that point, TS obviously had way more content, but you have to pay for all of it, so more is relative. I wanted to try the game and see if it was any fun and I never considered TS in that regard, since they even cost the same it was logical to go for the most recent iteration.
    So I would say TSW is more interesting to newcomers like me because of the graphics and the furthered immersion, while I can totally see people sticking to their TS if they already have a huge database there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  10. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    I think it is too early to evaluate the TSW2 "performance" in terms of users. IF DTG actually improves the software, especially old content, works on community engagement, and, maybe, it will actually produce nice content creation tools, I have no doubt that many players will leave TS.

    Oh, also actually having multiplayer in TSW2 will help the transition a lot. But I suspect is not coming before TSW2 2021 or later.
     
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  11. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    My question was about the TSW series as a whole, not just TSW2. DTG called it "the future of train simulation".

    TSW has been around a few years now but for all it's pretty graphics, it's still not managing to coax the traditional PC SIM user away from TS.
     
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  12. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. Some of the more recent TS1 routes are of very good quality and can look almost like a photo. It is the the fact that you are often using it with baited breath especially in the editor.

    But you don't, you can pay for what takes your fancy.
     
  13. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    My two penneth....

    TSW2020/TSW2 = TS1 without 3rd party content

    It is the 3rd party content that has kept TS1 alive and kicking. It is the 3rd party content that make the game what it is. If it was left to DTG only content TS1 would have died a long time ago. As it stands TSW2 only has DTG’s content, and they’re making all the same mistakes they made the last time.

    The content in TSW2 is arguably the best DTG have produced, but almost all of it has a major flaw (be it the woeful sound, graphical glitches, lack of functionality, limited use etc). They still release scenarios that cant be completed, features that don’t work or are completely pointless (mastery for example) and fundamental core features required by a Train Simulator are missing.

    I’ve always said there is a cultural problem at DTG, where ‘ok’ is accepted as good enough. They never strive to make something awesome. They have it in their gift to do so, but for whatever reason just can’t make that transition and step up the level of consistency and quality that PC users particularly want to see.

    By my reckoning TS2021 is a couple of hours from release. In 3 or 4 hours time the forums will be alight with people listing issues with WCMLS. It will sell though, because we know that within a matter of days the community / 3rd party providers will have stepped in and fixed what DTG should have got right in the first place. TSW2 doesn’t currently (and may never) have that luxury, and that’s where the problem lies for me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  14. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    What about the two third-party developers (Rivet Games and Skyhook Games) already creating content for TSW2?
     
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  15. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Not the same thing.

    They’re having to do it through a seemingly tightly controlled partner program. As it stands there will never be the sort of content for TSW2 that there is for TS2020/21.

    For example, Armstrong Powerhouse won’t be able to come along and independently transform the weather system in the game like they did with TS1 and sell it on their own website. That’s the issue.

    I look at it this way. Imagine the Bakerloo Line had been released for TS1 in the same state it is within TSW2. AP could, should it be commercially viable, come along and make a ‘Bakerloo Line EP’ where they fix all the clangers DTG have made (starting with the sound) and add new features / content. And it would sell. And people would buy the original Bakerloo Line because they knew that they could get the level of sim they wanted should they choose to purchase AP’s EP. Everybody wins.

    Sadly that can’t, and probably won’t, happen with TSW2. The game is entirely dependent on DTG raising their game to the same levels and it’s something I just don’t believe they are able to do, not because they don’t have the talent but because that level of simulation, consistency and attention to detail just isn't in their DNA.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  16. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Sure but that is not what I meant. My reasoning is that the game does not give you more by default. It gives you the option to get more content than TSW currently gives you, but that is not so much a selling point for newcomers like me.
    Plus when you are new to these games, just the looks of TS make you wonder if that game will get supported long enough, surely the newer product will be.
     
  17. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I think I will play more TSW2, when I'm sure my progress get's not reset at some point when mastery arrives, kind of waiting for the day1-patch for all of this ...

    But I don't want to be grumpy here, I'm patient and just wait for preserved to be fully released and the new German routes and locos I've spotted on the roadmap are good and therefore on my harddisk anytime soon ...
     
  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well they are still supporting it and I suspect there will still a community around it in another ten years. I would say there are more 3rd party payware and freeware developers developing for it than there ever has been.

    Even MSTS still has a following and that was abandoned by Microsoft relatively soon after launch.
     
  19. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot to write about this but I'll try to keep it brief,

    Anyway, it just boils down to a lack of competition on console.

    The problem with TSW is that it's game with a severe identity crisis, it tries to appeal to more experience simmers and to new players as well, and because of that it's ending up being a bit of a mess that doesn't fully satisfy anyone.

    New player, welcome why don't you do our bugged tutorials which show you how to start a train from cold and dark even though for 99% of services is not needed?
    And up until this point is not a huge problem, I guess... new people come in, do the tutorials and then do some scenarios, all fine until this point.

    But here comes the problem, for existing player: what's the answer to the question "Where are those beefy manuals telling you ALL about one country's safety/signalling system? Driving habits (like the little pararagph in the ECW manual, DTG we need more of that), and where are the details to actually drive a route REALISTICALLY? DTG has no answer to those problems, effectively to drive a german route realistically I would need to read the documents DB kindly put online for it's real drivers and personnel, sadly I don't speak german...

    Also, to run a route Hudless at least and Ebula chart is needed and there even the empty white screens in the loco reminding us that it does not exist in game....

    So I'd say although the new player experience is not awful I'd argue a more casual player would prefer a more arcade-y game like Derail Valley while a more experienced guy like myself would enjoy more Zusi3 or Run8.

    It is honestly saddening since this game has so much potential, but then DTG always falls short on the "little" details for example, the wagons in RSN weigh too much, and the braking is unrealistic for US trains (while I bet it's much more realistic in Run8).

    On console it's either TSW or TSW.

    Also a part of the crowd on PC might be "stuck" at an earlier title and decided to not upgrade, like there are people still playing MSTS...
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  20. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Once new routes start coming out and other updates made it'll probably pick up.

    But there’s part of the problem. Route content seems to need a lot of effort to create, so its a pretty small hose of updates. I like UK content. How many new routes will I see in a year? And it’s not just routes. Remember how in TSxxxx with all of the content if you had say, the London south network you could run consists from the 1960s and pretty much every decade thereafter. Even the different liveries enabled you to suggest you were running in the blue era, or one of the regional or privatizations thereafter. Some may not have used TSxxxx, in particular console users, but the South London network was almost something of beauty in terms of the options that it gave you.

    Perhaps the problem for DTG was that all of the user content, all of those third parties wasn’t profitable. Maybe TSW is really the route they took because they wanted access to the console market and that’s understandable. Was it DTG that sold it to the community that TSW was the new TSxxxx or did we jump, incorrectly, to that conclusion ourselves?
     
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  21. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    We can look at MSFS2020 as a comparison to TSW - X-plane, P3D and FSX collectively have a much higher user base than MSFS2020 and from the rather heated discussions on the MSFS’s own forums, it isn’t winning many converts from the dedicated simmers from those other titles.....YET!

    They just put out their second major patch that broke as much as it fixed - but I predict that as more 3rd party content becomes available, and system get patched MSFS2020 will start garnering a much larger market share. - and I have the same prediction for TSW
     
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  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have just made a scenario on SLN using the NSE 4-EPB and once you have populated the route with NSE EMU's you soon forget you aren't on a route with The Shard in place. It is also a very good quality route and shows that as realistic as TSW looks, look aren't everything.

    I don't every recall DTG marketing TSW as the new TS1, so I think you have a point there. I thought I would have given up with TS1 by now but am using more than ever, I can't see me uninstalling TS1 in favour of TSW for many years yet.
     
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  23. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    TSW is 2 years old already... it's clear that DTG has a bigger profit margins by not releasing route or rolling stock creators*, even if it means a lower player count.

    *correction: it's impossible to create a brand new rolling stock without DTG's help AFAIK and there is no route editor like the one in RW
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  24. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the lack of community third party content as opposed to the partner program that DTG are insisting Rivet et al have to be part of will forever be the limiting factor for TSW.

    Until they are able to come up with an editing capability for TSW similar to TS, it will never take over entirely.
     
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  25. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure Leadcatcher that I see it as the same situation. The MSFS was #1 seller on Steam before release.I doubt if TSW2 has had huge sales. As an avid user of Xplane I’m in no hurry to move over and the latest update of Xplane (11.50 with Vulkan) has really helped performance. Yes there are a lot of third parties who will produce content for MSFS, whether it will sell as well as people hope we’ll need to see. MSFS will over time kill off FSX (DTG again never leveraged their involvement) and probably P3D given the unusual licensing situation. Xplane might not ever look as pretty as MSFS but should have life in it.

    The biggest difference is how much Microsoft put into the project, both in terms of money and infrastructure. DTG don’t have that amount of resource, in fact I’d guess that much of what we see on TSW is lack of funding. it’s the best that can be done on the money available, that limits the sales, that ends up in a negative cycle.
     
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  26. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I think we do see the same thing @Medillenexpat - I was looking at a newly released simulation replacing older established simulations. X-plane and P3D will be predominate with the hard core simmers that have sunk lots of resources into those programs. Let’s face it - once you throw in a few study level aircrafts, weather engines and scenery update packages you can several hundreds of dollars involved - And you have plenty of options for further content.

    Which is the advantage TS has now over TSW - loads of content - people with large amount of resources poured into the simulation, lots of options for further content. What is TSW’s advantage - better rendering engine. Much more immersive default locomotives and routes. Pretty much the same advantage the MSFS2020 has over Xplane and P3D -

    I wasn’t stating that TSW was going to be the killer app for DTG or even as profitable for DTG as MSFS2020 will be - but the adoption rate amongst the established simming community. Let’s face it TSW on consoles have brought many new enthusiasts to Train simulation as has MSFS2020 to the aviation community - will these people stay around in the hobby? Will this convert to more interest into the hobby - Yes I think so
     
  27. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    This argument gets made time and time again in DTG’s defence. My retort is how come Armstrong Powerhouse can do it? How come Just Trains can do it, particularly lately? Steam Sounds Supreme? How many more are there?!

    Funds have no bearing on weather the guy making the scenarios actually makes sure you can complete them. Funds have no bearing on whether or not when they build the signalling system on a route they do it correctly. Funds have no bearing on making sure that sound quality is consistent from one release to the next (as londonmidland pointed out - good ambient sound on East Coast Way vs absolutely nothing when overground on the Bakerloo Line. Those sounds could easily have been reused and would have made a massive difference - shows lack of attention to detail).

    There is something more fundamentally wrong at DTG, where simply ‘ok’ is the level they aim to achieve. If they made half of this stuff right the first time, they wouldn’t have to spend all this effort fixing the basic mistakes that they keep making, and the more time they could spend developing new features.

    It’s a sweeping generalisation, and it’s not always the case, but I’d say it’s impossible to argue that this doesn’t happen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    That's the issue I have with DTG as their attitude is ‘It is what it is - don’t like it, don’t buy it’.

    Historically for TS1 add-ons, the majority of users would never associate DTG with quality or accuracy. Though they know people would still buy their DLC as it is required for other DLCs and/or it will be enhanced/utilised by third party developers.

    The fact that people are surprised when DTG produces something good, specifically sound wise, says a lot about them. Sound itself is the biggest thing DTG struggle with. They’ve never been able to sustain a constant library of good quality and accurate sounds. For the most part it’s recycled, inaccurate rubbish.

    So how is this applicable to TSW you may ask?

    With TSW, we cannot:
    - Edit routes to make them better, longer and/or more accurate
    - Third parties cannot use existing DTG products to improve them

    Which means DTG HAVE to get everything right, acceptable and accurate the first time round, including sounds and routes, as there’s no going back once a route is produced. Which in many cases they don’t.
     
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  29. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Active Member

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    Having played 3 services in a row that had problems and seeing the ever increasing list of problems being listed on the technical forum, I switched off TSW2 last night, dusted off the PS4 which has not been on since Christmas and played something else.

    The whole point of a game is that its meant to be fun and TSW2 at the moment just isn't. We don't need new fancy gameplay modes and mastery, we need the basics to work, collectables that you can actually collect, the ability to drive the engine facing the direction you are travelling rather than the rear cab of the second loco, and a world where the white balance doesn't make it look like a nuke has just gone off. While individual issues might be minor there are so many that collectively it is one big problem.

    I know they now have this new bug fixing team, but all we have really seen at the moment is talk, the last patch didn't fix some of the issues that it was supposed to and again there has been no acknowledgement from DTG of this. I know they need time, but why are the same problems occurring over and over again in the first place. The fact that many of the issues that have been reported multiple times on the technical are not listed on the roadmap, even as being under investigation seems to be another indication of things to come.

    A couple years ago DTG made similar bug fixing promises in respect of the original TS, nothing much ever seems to have come of this and most of reported issues in TS remain to this day, so I am not holding my breath that TSW2 will be any different.

    I recently had a minor problem with a newly released AP product. Given that they would have still been investigating the issue, I could not have wished for a speedier response and resolution. 18 months or so ago, one the car mechanic games was released with horrendous problems. There was a full apology issued by the devs but more importantly, there were weekly, if not daily updates appearing on steam, Now each update might have only solved one minor issue, but it gave the impression that things were actively being resolved.

    DTG on the on hand seem to sit on bug fixes for months, even when they say they have resolved them. Doeds anybody know whether Steam makes extra charges to the Dev for each update they release?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  30. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Just to say, re TS2021....told you so.
     
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  31. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    The biggest difference is the way DTG approaches 3rd party developed content.

    I can get for free an italian route and a loco which I dare to say is on par with many TSW loco and routes, of course it's mainly down to the creator's kindness and of course DTG being a corporation will do what is most profitable, and I don't blame them for it.

    Although MSFS2020 to my knowdlege has implemented a store thingy were if 1 person can create a plane as good as the default planes and wants to give it for free it can, this would never happen in TSW.

    This leads to, for example being restricted to GER/UK/US and hopefully France, because as they said themselves to make an entire new country worthwhile they need to be sure they can sell at least 3 different routes, as there are a lot of costs and research involved in the various safety and signalling systems and licensing costs.

    Obviously, if DTG decided to go with this sort of partnership system is because it's more profitable for them. They basically made sure to have a monopoly over every DLC we get, so I can't create a better route than DTG and sell it for 15€ even if I was capable of doing so.

    That's the big difference between MSFS and TSW, and I think it can detract a lot of new players, if there were no italian (my homeland) routes (on older games) I think I might have quitted train simming years ago, and I fear we miss out on a lot of players by lacking variety.

    Also the assumption that TSW is a new game is wrong, it's not. It's a game released in 2018, TSW2 being just a fancier DLC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  32. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

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    It's a problem that afflicts many a creative career. Do you keep turning out stuff for the core audience or take some risks.
    The most successful recording artist I know has just gone for the latter but only after paying off the mortgage with the former. Others I've known have played it safe and straight and forgot that over-reliance on that core audience was a path of diminishing returns.

    I think the launch of TSW2 has gone well. It hasn't been a disaster, with a lot of positive comments about the Bakerloo Line in particular and no serious hitches that shut the game down for lots players. The Preserved Collection u-turn has even given us proof that DTG listens. If that seems to set the bar low it's because I'm British and we're pretty *hite at everything we touch.

    If I was running DTG, I'd be playing it safe with TSW2 for the first couple of years, slow growth wins over "big bang", once the Preserved Collection has transferred we'll likely see a Swiss route from Rivet, US/UK/D from DTG a couple of times round then maybe something French, Italian (I'd be all for it) or even Australian.
     
  33. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Since I started with CSX Heavy Haul, I am well aware of the age of the TSW lineage .. I am also aware that Xplane took nearly 10 years to come to par with FSX with respect to user count, But in the train simulation industry - TSW is still the new kid on the Block. That is the problems with assumptions — many make assumptions that are wrong :)
     
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  34. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    It's early days and the dusts hardly settled.
    I'm going with TSW2 and will probably delete my TS stuff before long as the graphics just aren't good enough.
    I just can't believe scenery that fades away after a hundred yards from the track. Green bare hills and mountains.

    I spent 75 mins this afternoon running heavy haul and most of it was spent on the roof of the cab idly panning from left to right and thinking what a good job the scenery designers had done. The Koln route is equally good. All at 60 fps.
    Yes there's not much material available yet, but I'm willing to wait.

    At the moment consoles are holding us back. Control and storage wise.
    What I'd like to see are better editing tools and a blind eye turned to sharing.
    The tacit acceptance/ignoring of TSW2 modding would be the best way to build an engaged player base.
     
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  35. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    But that's where the majority of the sales are coming from, so little or nothing is going to get better solely from a PC point of view.
     
  36. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    As I read these varying opinions, I do not long for a return of the "thumbs down" rating, but I do find myself wishing for "agree" and "disagree" options. "Like" and "helpful" just do not cover an adequate range of expressing opinion without taking the time to write a reply.
     
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  37. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Active Member

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    I think DTG needs a way of implementing a 'difficulty' system, so to say, in TSW3. Maybe have like a "Pro" or "Simulation" version of the timetable, and the ability to select either "Classic," "Advanced," or "Simulation" difficulty for scenarios.

    Classic would basically be what we have now. Safety systems are optional and turned on by the player, as they are now. The train is basically set up for you when you start the service/timetable: maybe you have to do simple tasks like setting the destination board and setting up the headlights/marker lights. Open the doors, load passengers, close the doors, and head off. You can only accrue AP points, you can never lose them.

    Advanced is similar to the above, but you have scenarios that may include (guided) cold and dark starts. Basic/less complicated safety systems (AWS, SIFA, TWPS) are enabled by default. More complicated safety systems (PZB, ACSES, ATC/PTC) can be enabled if the player chooses, as in the current game. Players can earn AP points, but can now lose points for overspeeding (instead of just getting +15 for overspeed and +0 for significant overspeed).

    Simulation goes whole hog. Scenarios with cold and dark starts have guided instruction to set the train up, but when there's a depot start in the timetable, the player is on their own to set up the train and bring it into service. All warning devices and safety systems are enabled by default, as they would be in real life. Points are not visible whilst playing, but are still accrued; however, you lose points for overspeed and penalty brake applications. If you overshoot a station, you can't just throw the train into reverse and back into the station; you have to contact the signaller either for permission to change ends or to proceed to the next station (depending on local rules). The HUD is off by default (but can be turned on), encouraging use of in-cab displays to run the train. (Go-via and stop at markers would still be enabled by default.) There would no longer be a "load/unload passengers" display/timer on the screen: where applicable (e.g., Class 43, ACS-64, etc.), doors are controlled by an AI conductor, and the player would have to rely on the door interlock indicator and/or signal buzzer from the AI conductor before being allowed to proceed, and the timing would be somewhat randomized (with the doors staying open for longer at busier stations and during rush hours).
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  38. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    New consoles are coming soon with more capable hardware. People will start buying them and at some point there will be enough of those consoles to justify an increase in the draw distance and performance of new content. Just don't expect this to happen overnight. We are talking at least 1 or 2 years from now.
     
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  39. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Nobody seems to mention the fact that Fernbus was going to release an editor too, but they haven't either. It must be something about Epic Games not wanting the game compaines releasing it.

    I find TSW2 to be the best simulator. It gives the best experience of driving a train, (especially in terms of physics) which is what a train simulator is meant to do. I know that all the TSW devs are passionate about what they do, and they want to get everything as good as possible.
     
  40. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I know it’s the ‘old’ game but it demonstrates my point perfectly. DTG released the WCMLS route last night alongside TS2021 and by all accounts it is a complete mess, exactly as I predicted. Don’t believe me? Watch the live stream on YouTube.

    That is DTG’s problem summed up right there. A company who just release something, anything, by a given deadline and who simply don’t care about the state of it. What an absolute mess.

     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  41. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It did look bad frame rate wise but there are some people playing it who are happy with it and not having such an issue with frame rates. Sam did have his settings maxed out, which didn't help. It has made me hold of purchasing it for now but I will see how things develop review wise over the next few weeks and what DTG's response is.

    I have seen people complaining about frame rates on routes where they have flash modern gaming rigs and I have had no problems on my largely six year old set-up, TS1 is very unpredictable.

    I wouldn't say it was a complete mess, it is a nice looking route with plenty of stock and knowing the route quite well many areas are recognisable. It is the frame rate issue which is the problem.
     
  42. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    If you stuck around to the end of the stream you'll have seen me trying it on lower settings with the same result. It wasn't the settings at fault here.
     
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  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Ah okay my apologies, I missed the last 20 minutes of it.
     
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  44. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That must have been embarrassing doing that stream. I can imagine Sam wishing he could turn it off and play a better route, or show on the stream the process of how to get a refund, in his role as the customer’s representative in DTG. Oh dear.
     
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  45. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Mistakes happen. I rather have DTG not trying to hide it.
     
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  46. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Those types of mistakes should never happen. I would be very surprised if the first time that either Sam or Jamie had seen it was in the stream itself.
     
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  47. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That's what happens when you try to push an old game engine to its limits...
     
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  48. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, Just Trains and others can manage it so why can't DTG?
     
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  49. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

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    What do you expect comparing the first few weeks after release? An increase in players? No, it starts high and then quickly drops as those that aren't that interested in it move away. If you want to talk about long term success of the game then look at the long term numbers..
    https://steamdb.info/graph/?compare=24010,530070,1282590
    Those 500 active players in TSW2 is what TSW2020 would have gotten as a summer low-point if not for the release of TSW2. And as you can see TSW has had a steady growth of players as new content has come out for it, while TS had hit its market cap in 2014 and is since then in stagnation.
     
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  50. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I like the JT routes but are they pushing it to it's limit? I wouldn't say so. Portsmouth Direct has no problems and that is probably pushing it to its limit if any route is.
     
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