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Tsw Just Not Cutting It With The Pc Crowd!

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by longo239, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Apologies. I misunderstood your message. I thought you were making the claim that TSW wasn't seling good and you suspected length and variety to be the reasons.
     
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  2. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Well enlighten me then instead of acting all condescending. Of course I have no experience with this game as I startet, like I mentioned, my train Sim journey with TSW2020 about 2 months before.

    And back then when I compared TS and TSW it appeared to me(and still does) that all the dlc must be bought and is not for free. If you got something for free over the course of time fair enough, but to me as a new player that holds no benefit.
    And to buy a game just because of workshop compatibility is no main selling point to me personally, if that is what you were implying.
     
  3. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    This is a thread that includes strong opinions. Don't let it get personal. Remember what you think is vital may not line up with someone else's view, and that doesn't make either of you right or wrong.
     
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  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Another thing is that people are claiming TSW isn't doing well on PC. I guess DTG does have some statistics about this. Would you be able to share some numbers that can tell how well TSW is doing compared to TS, and compared to how well TS did when it was just a few years old? I'm hoping some stats and facts will bring a stop to the guessing and assuming we currently have to do :P
     
  5. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    There's a bucket load of free stuff for train sim: Routes, scenarios, repaints. Some require paid DLC, some do not. Even if you only have just a few DTG routes installed that came with the game, the Workshop is rammed with free scenarios for those routes. There's repaints for stock trains galore.. hundreds of them. There are extensions to existing routes.. all free. You'd not run out of new stuff to use for months, even if you played every single day without spending a penny.
     
  6. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    As both TS and TSW have been distributed via Steam for PC users, SteamDB has graphs where you can compare the users over any given period of time.

    Here are the graphs for those interested:

    All time users: chart.png

    Last year:
    chart (1).png

    Last 6 Months:
    chart (2).png

    Last 3 months:
    chart (3).png

    Last month:
    chart (4).png
     
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  7. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Last Week:
    chart (5).png

    In what world is the TSW franchise as a whole (TSW2020 and TSW2) competing on PC with TS? Even on release TSW2 never reached the peak number of players on PC that TS has reached and quickly fell below again..

    Console figures are totally different and it is obvious to me that's the market DTG are apparently aiming for and I believe that desire for parity across all platforms is holding TSW back as a valid option for a long term train simulator.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  8. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    OK thank you for the elaborate answer. I can fully see now how TS offers basically more content than can be completed for no additional cost, fair enough.

    For the sake of argument I just wanted to give input from the view of a newcomer and give my reasons as to why I did not consider TS and chose TSW2020 instead. It is absolutely great to have the opportunity to get more out of the game with for example the steam workshop, it was just not a selling point as I would have to commit to a game that is older, does not look as well as tsw and even costs the same.
     
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  9. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    A train simulator is designed to give people the ability to simulate driving trains. TSW does exactly that. A simulator doesn't require people to make their own stuff for it.
     
  10. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    You are missing the point, if it was purely down to driving trains, why hasn't TSW killed off TS?

    This is not a bashing exercise, but purely looking at the numbers of users, for the PC, TSW is not making vast inroads and the initial question in my first post was why not?
     
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  11. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I like the way Sam said it in the last stream, TS let's you be the train, TSW let's you be the train driver (conductor/engineer, I don't know the correct terminology).
    Being able to walk around the stations and through the train was a big selling point for me!
    I played alot of Euro truck and always wanted to get out of the cab occasionally, but it is not possible...
     
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  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You could infer from the graphs above that nobody has bought TS since 2015, and it’s just old customers still playing it. That’s probably not true but the people playing it hasn’t increased since then. TSW has much fewer people playing it in comparison but it hasn’t had that seven years of sales, and therefore users, before it was released. In other words, the graphs tell us that TS has been around longer, and as creatures of habit and well invested into it, the people who have bought TS during the time before TSW came along are still using it. There was no need for an alternative for those people and TSW doesn’t replace what TS is, so there's no reason for them to stop, especially if they have built up a huge library of content. I wonder what a graph of completely new customers is like between the three titles. Very different I should imagine.
     
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  13. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    The graphs are for players, not sales. You still can't get away from the fact that over 3,000 people were playing TSW2 on release day and a week later its round about 1,000. A 66% drop in players and those numbers have continued to drop to around 500 per day. Something about TSW2 hasn't connected with the PC train sim fan.

    Yes, as far as DTG are concerned, 3,000 plus PC sales on release is quite good, it really doesn't matter to them whether people play it once it's been bought. However if they want the next DLC to sell well, you would like to see a large amount of people continually playing because those that aren't playing probably won't be in a rush to buy again.
     
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  14. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Yes, half of the preserved collection isn't there yet...
     
  15. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, stats and facts probably won’t change most strong opinions.

    DTG is still supporting and developing TS as well as TSW, and we should hope they (and third-party developers) prosper.

    There are new routes and locos in development for both sims. How fortunate we are to be able to play the particular train sim we prefer. Thanks!
     
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  16. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    But it was all in TSW2020 and still TS had three times more daily users.
     
  17. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Yes, 'only' three times more daily users, while having considerably more amount of content, more tools and being around for longer.

    So despite all the shortcomings of TSW, it's still doing pretty nicely IMO.
     
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  18. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm.... I'm not so sure. Again, as TS is customisable, there are a lot of 3rd party plug-ins that go some way to addressing the graphics of TS. It is not as good as TSW, sure. It's older... but with add-ons, it looks more.. different, than worse I'd say. The only things that still let the side down are routes that use old foliage models, and of course the ridiculous platform passenger animations. WHen actually driving though, it can look amazing. Seriously... are you telling me that this....

    ...is THAT far behind TSW?
     
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  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Sales graphs would be very different than the player graphs and even the start of the TSW2 player graph doesn’t show new sales just new sales on day one.

    I’m not disagreeing with the fact that PC players are playing TS more than TSW or any of the reasons why stated in this thread, just that the number of players for TS has stayed static for five years. Sales are a different matter, but you could say from the players graph that there have been no new customers for five years, just the old customers still buying DLC and still playing. It’s not contrary to the sentiment of the thread just an interesting observation. TSW is following the same profile as TS but with a lower number, TSW2 is too new to garner anything from the graph as to its staying power, and a large number of TSW2 players are from the TSW2020 players, who still have more content in that game for now.
     
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  20. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate that both products are brought to us by the same company so they are getting the best of both worlds so to speak as the pretty much a monopoly on train sims across all platforms.

    However, at some point TS will become so old that something will have to take it's place, maybe there's a couple of more years in it where they can add minor tweaks and change the screenshot for the latest annual version but then it will be eventually abandoned by DTG and all their eggs will be in the TSW basket.

    TS will continue with the active third party following but I don't see DTG supporting it for much longer. So, they need to really up their game as far as TSW is concerned and that should be starting now, but as the figures show for PC users that's not really happening. People are trying it but then most likely going back to TS.

    Personally I have invested hundreds of hours and pounds into TSW, but having found TS afterwards, TSW hardly ever gets used any more. Personally it's more of a simulator than TSW. TSW is more a simcade game than what I consider a true simulator.

    One thing I wouldn't recommend is DTG hiring you for their sales or marketing team if you think that two thirds less regular players than your closest rival is doing pretty well.
     
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  21. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    I’ve tried but TSW just seems too constrained to me. The freedom that TSxxxx is missing. Having schedules in TSW is of course realistic (and therefore you could argue simulation appropriate) but on short routes it does have a groundhog day feeling to it.

    Taking a flight simulation example would most people want a flight simulator where they could only fly the routes that the aircraft/livery combination flew at exactly the timetabled hours?

    In TSxxxx if I had a Class 31 and wanted to use it for passenger services the alternative that TSW/Tees gives me, dragging a DMU set around, wouldn’t be top of my choices.
     
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  22. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

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    Look at every other time where new content was released. There is a big spike in interest and then it drops down to those that regularly play because they actually like playing it again and again. Its the same with every other game that gets expanded regularly. Look at the player numbers in World of Warcraft or the like, its the same picture.
     
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  23. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ‘Look at every other time where new content was released. There is a big spike in interest‘

    The other explanation might be that people buy and try the new content but many don’t find it engaging enough to return to. Long term that’s not good for the vendor or the game.

    it would be true of say my purchase of East Coastway. Firstly the Class 377 were hardly challenging to drive and that 23 mile line doesn’t allow much other than short stopping runs. Interesting for a day or two, but hardly addictive, at least for me. Yes, there was the Class 66 but freight runs on 23 mile lines? By the time you’ve got it moving you’re getting ready to stop it.
     
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  24. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that once the TGV route and Arosa Line come, the number will drastically increase. Those will bring in more French and Swiss players.
     
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  25. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    A fairly obvious reason why players haven’t transferred is simply because TSW/TSW 2 lacks content. Releases are few and far between in TSW compared to the variety of content being released quite frequently for TS1, by several developers and of course freeware content by the community.
     
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  26. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Not just that, the Arosa Line is great for those of us who like narrow gauge railways through the mountains, while the TGV route is perfect for those who like modern high speed trains. It really adds to the variety in TSW. :)
     
  27. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ‘while the TGV route is perfect for those who like modern high speed trains‘

    How long is the route going to be? I don’t understand how any high speed route can be ‘perfect’ unless it’s a decent distance. Given that the distances between high speed stations are generally fairly big that’s going to limit where from and to. Paris to Lyon might add users, Macon to Lyon (about 70kms) won’t.
     
  28. Winzarten

    Winzarten Active Member

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    For me... it is about what I would expect. The texturing on the train and the track detailing looks superb, but it is barely hitting 30fps on an empty stretch of track. This is something that will never change on TS, as DirectX9 draw calls have high cpu overhead. Also the rendering pipeline in Directx9 has to be single thread. Refactoring the rendering pipeline to another api is unrealistic.

    Big issue for me in that video is how bright, yet washed out it looks to be. Like, where are the colors? This is a typical artefact of DX9 game with some bloom/tonemap shader pasted over that. The tone also usually tends to be quite static.
    One of the areas where TSW has the biggest advantage is lighting as unreal engine utilizes PBR. There, it is THAT far behind. The variety of conditions and how it affects the overall scene is miles ahead of TS. If only DTG would done down on the bloom and nuclear sun.

    Like, I have nothing againts how TS looks, you can get there plenty of nice scenes, but, even in the best situation it is far behind of TSW, atleast for me.
     

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  29. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

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    If you love TS2021 that's good. You've got a hobby which is very important, you probably love trains and love driving them but you've also likely been a train enthusiast for years and tend to prefer variety and accuracy over pretty graphics. You also have a PC and love the community aspect that comes with the many additional, non-DTG add-ons and freeware routes.
    If you love TSW2 that's also good. You've got a hobby which is very important, you probably love trains and love driving them.

    So how did it come that there's an argument over which of two very different games is "best" when the basis of that argument is a highly subjective opinion?
     
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  30. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Surely the point is see how things look in a few years when there is more content and maybe TS1 is no longer supported directly by DTG! Who knows what the future looks like.

    I would say it is far too early to compare.
     
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  31. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ‘So how did it come that there's an argument over which of two very different games is "best" when the basis of that argument is a highly subjective opinion?‘

    The same developer produces both games. Almost by default DTG are the suppliers of software to the rail simulation community.

    It’s not unreasonable for the members of that community to question whether DTG are taking the hobby in the right direction.
     
  32. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well there is Trainz, Run8 and DRS and others, so there are alternatives.

    Surely DTG are just another supplier who are taking their simulators in a direction they see fit.

    If it is the wrong direction, who decides that? Then, surely someone or some company should come along and make a new simulator which is going in the right direction, whatever that may be?

    And I suspect the answer to that question will be as varied as their are users!
     
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  33. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Active Member

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    To be honest, I'm just tired of DTG at this point. I've stopped trying to have somewhat constructive comments, and even tried to limit how much I post on Discord and the forums.

    I'll still play TSW and have a peek at the odd dlc (because some of that roadmap is genuinly cool). But that game just sets itself up for dissapointment from the start. Too many big glaring flaws.

    - Routes should have been made with extensions in mind.
    - But well and truely... the editor is the big flaw with TSW. And I really don't buy DTG's excuse for not having one. Apparently its too complicated... but not complicated enough where they can still pump out dlc after dlc... and give out to select partners. But those select partners will have to take a cut for DTG and Steam and have everything in-house. Just seems like an excuse to try and monetise third-party community (an argument which was publically pushed by both Matt Peddleston and Paul Jackson) (source was a Matt P stream and a few discord messages before he left)

    Dovetail, I really have nothing against you and I wish them well. But I just don't trust them after (what 10 years) of the same old record.
     
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  34. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    This isn't an argument about what's best, it's a discussion as to why the TSW franchise is not as popular amongst PC players as the considerably older TS.
     
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  35. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I play both TS and TSW. I play TS more often, because as of this moment TSW doesn't offer any real incentive for me to really "switch" other than eye candy. TS is the more mature and complete product at this time, which makes sense given that it's mostly unchanged since 2012 lol. However, I have more route and locos for TS, there's steam workshop support for scenarios, and a clunky but comprehensive route and scenario builder that let's me create whatever I want. Those are all things that TSW lacks and doesn't seem to have even remotely close to being on their roadmap.

    I'll add that while TSW does have some unique routes like the LIRR (which for me is just straight, cookie cutter, and boring) and Koln-Aachen, most other route both current and even upcoming (Munich-Augsburg, Isle of Wight, France TGV) already exist for TS and I own them. So when they come out for TSW I basically have to decide if I want to re-buy the same route for $30 for a graphical upgrade. Again, this doesn't offer great incentive for me to "switch", at least not yet.
     
  36. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    The notion that one direction is the right direction, and the other is the wrong direction is highly subjective.
     
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  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't play IOW on TS1 and haven't for years I only have it as it is often a requirement for freeware routes, although it still looks very good. I think assuming the TSW route has better sounds and is more detailed and is as pretty as I expect, I expect to use it more on TSW, especially with service mode. Same with the Faversham Route.

    For me it is the older period routes which will keep TS1 going as I want to create historically accurate scenarios for them where as modern routes I am more likely to jump in and drive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  38. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Doom-and-gloom opinions that the sky is falling for TSW, that TSW is going in the wrong direction, don't seem to be a discussion. They seem to be a declaration.

    Not everyone sees TSW as a failure or a disappointment. Some are happy to play it and look forward to what's on the roadmap.
     
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  39. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Honestly this reminds me a lot of what's happening right now with Microsoft Flight Simulator vs X-Plane. The old flight sim crowd has been using X-Plane 11 for years and many people have built up a library of payware add-ons. They need a compelling reason to switch over, but other than graphics the new MSFS hasn't provided one yet for a lot of simmers. It will as it matures, but it's not there yet.
     
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  40. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    That's because it's only a GTX1080 running 4K with everything on max. Are you seriously telling me that you'd get much more than that from TSW at 4K with everything on max, with a 1080? I realise that DX9 is inefficient, but seriously... it's not like you need a 2080Ti to run it or anything, and 30fps is fine for a simulator... it's hardly CS:GO is it. I use a crappy GTX980 at 2560x1600 with everything on max and it's fine.

    That's a choice made by the creator of the video. Remember when I said it was fully customisable? I have over 100 custom shader settings I can play with. Here's how mine looks... same loco, same coaches, same station.

    Railworks64 2020-09-23 14-55-18.jpg


    I'm just saying the difference isn't as great as you think as there's so much tweaking that can be done. Out of the box, sure... TS looks dated... but anyone who's serious about it doesn't leave it like that for long. RWEnhancer Pro and Reshade are kind of standard addons that everyone uses now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  41. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Quite, I think there are many happy voices they just seem to be drowned out at the moment!

    Precisely, it feels like it is a premature discussion.
     
  42. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    It's not doom and gloom, it's fact. The numbers clearly show that PC users for TSW are not increasing in comparison with an 8 to 10 year old game, which is clearly maintaining its number of regular players.

    No one is saying there aren't people who enjoy TSW and are happy with it.

    It's purely a discussion as to why PC users are apparently sticking with the older game for the time being.

    Why does it always boil down to accusations from the TSW fans that it's TSW bashing?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  43. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Bottom line is that as long as DTG continues to invest in TSW and continues to put minimal effort into the TS series, the TS crowd will gradually shift over more and more. However, it just doesn't make sense for a lot of us to abandon all the cool routes and locos we love completely for a better looking but far more limited sim, in TSW. However it's not always going to be like that. I'm positive DTG knows this and isn't fretting. Those simmers who are resistant are still spending money with DTG, they're just spending it on TS instead of TSW, but again, that's inevitably going to change...but no overnight...and not with the limited featureset TSW currently offers.
     
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  44. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    I would say, while both TS and TSW are both good simulators, they both have their own points where one may be better than the other in certain aspects. I enjoy TS and TSW for what they have to offer.

    I think of TS20xx as good ol' reliable. It may not be as good with the graphics as TSW2 but can still be enjoyed while being an older simulator. Route length is good for the most part. The downside to TS20xx is how it runs. As it is a single core application, it does not really seem to utilize the full power of modern CPU's, possibly leading to bottlenecks in how this sim runs with more recent PC hardware configurations. Also, the way in which it loads assets leads to small microstutters here and there while the train is travelling.

    Lately, I have been trying to play more TSW2 and so far have been enjoying the sim, especially the LIRR. For e.g, while it may not resemble the same amount of rail traffic as you may encouter in real life, I try to enjoy the route that exists. I have not tried out the scenario editor but wonder if it is possible to add even more AI trains into the route with the scenario editor. It definitely is a slight upgrade from TSW2020 in terms of graphics and performance quality. I don't really care too much about the achievements with finding the collectibles in TSW but do enjoy operating the train from point A to point B. So far for me, the preserved routes appear perform a bit better than they did in TSW2020. While having shorter routes so far than TS, it does have some what of an arcade/video game feel with the collectibles objective of the sim. One area I see TSW doing better than TS is the operation of the train. One downside about TSW is that we do not have an editor for building routes. If the editor is released at some point, I hope it can be as user friendly as the surveyor tool in Trainz,
     
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  45. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    Wow, pretty interesting graphs here... from what these graphs suggest, both TSW 2020 and TSW 2 player stats are consistently far lower than TS. And TSW 2 stats started dropping immediately after launch, and still seem to be dropping. Not a good sign for that sim right now... can’t say I’m surprised with all of the TSW 2 issues going on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  46. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    The notion that the popularity of the long-established TS with plenty of improvements to it over the years means something is wrong with a game that's just been launched a month ago is an unfair comparison.

    TS took a long time to be improved, and from reading this thread, it didn't offer many of the things people like about it when it launched.

    Yet, we haven't even given the community a year or two to see if more have grown to like TSW2.
     
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  47. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    This is simple:

    While TSW doesn't have the same content, it looks better... kind of.
    While TS doesn't have the UE4 shiny stuff, it it can pretty much hold it's own graphically with addons, as we've shown.

    People who just want a great looking game out of the box and can't be arsed with having to amass a huge amount of DLC, or aren't bothered about having the exact loco and coach numbers in absolutely correct livery, running to an exact replica time table complete with correct time tables for even AI traffic... then there's TSW. It's perfectly fine.

    Those that do... there's TS... also perfectly fine.

    So far as I'm concerned you are comparing apples and oranges. TS has a steeper learning curve, especially when it comes to editing. TSW is designed for console users as a plug and play simulator.. just load up and drive. That's fine too. TSW2 goes some way to add such functionality ,but it is light years behind, and no one can seriously deny that.

    While TSW is available on the PC, it was designed with console users in mind... that much is obvious. On the promo stream for the livery designer when it came out, they said when discussing the importing of images and typing of text that it wouldn't be in because it wasn't possible for console users. Why do TSW users deny this as if they're ashamed of it or something. DTG have pretty much said this is so. As a result, it has built in limitations when it comes to the same level of customisability and openness. All this is fine... too. You have a choice of Train Simulators. Chose yours accordingly according to your needs.

    The other reason is... despite TSW being out forover 2 years now... there's no sign of any decent 3rd party payware, or even community sourced freeware. You get what you get, and wait for DTG to drip feed you new routes and scenarios.

    Apparently you CAN share liveries in TSW2, but you need an addon, and it's limited to 30. So looks like you're going to have to rely on addons and plug ins for TSW2 any way if you want even close to the level of customisability as TS.

    The issue is because TS users want the UE4 engine, and TSW users want the choice. Well.. tough... decide what's more important to you, and use the correct tool for the job. Personally, for me, that's Train Simulator. For you, it may be TSW.

    This is all turning into a Mac vs. PC argument, and they're just as silly too, as again, you are comparing apples and oranges.. yes I realise the pun there...
     
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  48. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 has, yes, but let's be honest, it's just an update of TSW... and that's been out for over 2 years. Where's the 3rd party DLC?
     
  49. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    But it's not all about just TSW2.

    Even if you accept the fact that it is a new game rather than an update of TSW2020, there is still more than enough common ground between the two to say that the TSW franchise has already had 3 or 4 years of development, if not longer.
     
  50. Winzarten

    Winzarten Active Member

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    TS is insanely CPU bound (as all dx9 sims). I have a GTX1080 with a 6600k i5, running at 1440p and turning on 2x2 supersampling (which basically rendering at double the resolution, so over 4k) caps my fps around 50 in empty areas, where I become GPU bound. As I enter dense areas, the fps plummets to around 30, wtih graphical settings no longer having any effects, as it becomes cpu bound. That's the problem with DX9 and draw calls, they have huge CPU overhead. Throwing in a 3080 would yield nilch. That's the limitation of DX9.

    With the same HW I'm able to use TSW on high-ultra, with increased visibility and lods via engine.ini tweaks, and I run around 50 most of the time. And the same tweakability you have for TSW as well.

    I have more than 500hours in TS, I have RWEnhancer, also experience with reshade, sweetFx, and other dll injects, but the two are incomparable. Tweaking it to look good on one particular track, in one particular hour, with one particular weather is possible. But the settings are usually not that optimal in another weather/time of day. Like, even in your picture, the sky looks good, the blooming on the train is ok, but why are the yellow warning lines glowing?

    Because you cannot replace PBR with a single pass scene shader, as it doesn't know if the bright object is a reflective metal, or a nonreflective painted concrete. It will also not add feature that TS lacks, like proper reflections, proper projected lights. Or model and animation features like proper joints between cars, or bogies that can move fully independent from the loco body.

    TS is and looks as a DX9 game, nothing wrong with that. The strength of simulators is seldom in the looks. But TSW just looks a ton better than TS.
     

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