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Tsw: Marvelous Metropolitans!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. LuPatrenX

    LuPatrenX New Member

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    No need for explanation. I'm a New Yorker too and the lack of traffic was my first complaint. I agree on all your other points as well. This is why I pointed to Next Gen consoles.

    Due to no longer needing to design a game where assets that might be used are loaded along with assets that will be used, that could change how DTG not only designs their routes, but how much traffic runs as well. Overall resource management in general which, from what I understand, may be more important than how powerful the machine is. Also, shorter development time being a goal specifically for PS5, could we possibly see longer routes too?

    For all we know, everything that hasn't been fixed CAN'T be right now due to hardware limitations. But with Next-Gen bringing all sorts of new room to play, we may actually see progress in the near future.

    I REALLY hope they are considering rebuilding from the ground up and TSW2022 (or even 2023) transforms this into the Sim they market it as.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  2. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing stopping them from releasing a LIRR timetable mod. Take a look at ECW, Caltrain, MSB, even the latest release HRR where there are several hundred services and very busy mainlines. Consoles can run those, so it is not due to any type of hardware limitation. Consoles can even run the PC version of GWE's timetable through a glitch, and they are capable of doing so. The only valid excuse is CSX Heavy Haul. This argument that consoles are the limiting factor is honestly such a lazy one to excuse DTG's shortcomings, and only further enables them to continue to pump out DLCs and neglect older routes.


    We don't know for sure if the M3 will come or will not come with an improved timetable until we watch the preview stream, but if the rumors are true, and there is no updated timetable, then we know for sure the real reason why is MONEY. If this timetable really is in development as others claim, then the smart thing to do would be to delay the M3 until it is finished. That way it gives them more time to work on the M3 (hopefully fix the interior as well, since it looks quite awful to be honest), and we get a realistic LIRR experience in terms of traffic and several hundreds more services for us to drive. Releasing the train without it simply spells out cash grab, and if DTG realizes they can make money without it, they will likely abandon it and move on to the next project since they've already collected the revenue from this DLC. This is a practice that I do not support, and I will hold firm on my stance that I will not purchase this DLC until we get a confirmed statement from DTG that an updated timetable is actually in the works and will come at some point in the future. None of this Matt says hearsay, but a statement from DTG itself, because we know their track record in adding services that do not come from additional DLC is non existent (LITERALLY, non existent. We've never seen a timetable update not coincide with a DLC unless it was bugged). We've seen first hand that the only thing that holds DTG accountable is MONEY, which is why only after people on the forums and their social media complained about the DB BR 182, that they went back and fixed Rapid Transit and added PZB/LZB to it because it would hurt their bottom line.

    Now all of this is under the presumption that there will be no improved timetable with the release. If this is false, then I applaud DTG for taking the time to go back to LIRR and add all of those additional services and I would even recommend this route to others if this happens, but until then these are my personal thoughts on this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  3. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    I completely agree with everything!
     
  4. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Also, why does it take Matt doing it unofficially in his spare time to fix the timetable?

    Why aren’t DTG doing this in the first place as a priority, seeing as the timetable is utterly dead with it being a heavily revised timetable of the original one, which didn’t work out.

    If it wasn’t for Matt, I doubt DTG would even release a timetable fix for LIRR and give an excuse such as “We don’t have the time to come back and fix older DLC’s” because it’s quite obvious all they care about is the DLC cash cow as that is their main priority.
     
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  5. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Not everything.
     
  6. Oo7 BELL 7oO

    Oo7 BELL 7oO Active Member

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    In America I belive it will be $19.99 Britain will be £11.99 and Europe will be ~ 15 Euros
     
  7. LuPatrenX

    LuPatrenX New Member

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    I read that whole response to my post and aside from what came from the horses mouth, most of what I saw are personal assumptions. Performance DOES tank when there are more than two M7 trains at the same time. And you all forget that DTG are trying to squeeze out a "as realistic as can be" train simulator for hardware that is 7+ years old at this point. Base PS4 and XB1, the lowest common denominators.

    How many PCs, do you think, could run TSW smoothly with hardware unchanged from when you got it (in this case, 2013)? I know not mine. Mind you, neither PS4 or XB1 could match PCs when they came out and they sure don't now.

    This is exactly why I brought up Next-Gen hardware. Because for the first time, the gap between the two should be so negligible that comments like "PCs can do blah blah blah" would actually be relevant.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them. There are small improvements that I think could be done. What I'm saying is I've been lurking here for a few years now, and one thing I consistently see is people disregarding actual limitations that may exist. Throwing up the word lazy so liberally.

    Unless ANYONE OF US IN THIS THREAD are actually working on this product, we truly don't know.

    As I said previously, there could be hard limits on what they can do at the current date. Who knows what they'll able to do in one or two years when they don't have to worry about developing for tech a decade old at that point? Or for that matter, freedom that currently doesn't exist now?

    So do me a favor and think a bit further about this. Good things happen to those who wait after all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  8. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    I mean we've been waiting 3 years and we've basically seen almost entirely regression, but sure - waiting works.

    Lighting is worse
    Driving is still as mundane as ever
    Textures are worse
    Route build quality is worse
    The sky box is still about the same as my Microsoft paint drawings when I was 5.
    Sounds are still very mediocre in places
    Service mode is still dead
    Mastery is a joke
    Still no cloud saving
    Achievements are still buggy - I've got achievements for DLCs I don't even own.
    Passenger AI is still a joke
    Bugs they introduced after release that break a route aren't fixed (NEC)
    Routes still can't be merged
    Complete silence on the editor for the public
    Routes are shorter than ever, yet worse.
    You still have to manually set unit measurements....


    Some of these things are just basic competency, obviously their staff turn over is high but I do question who the most experienced unreal developer onboard is... And how many months experience they have.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2020
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  9. danman425

    danman425 New Member

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    Then it’s likely a capability issue if it isn’t possible on consoles. The option is there on PC so I don’t believe it’s valid to complain about a feature lacking if it’s available via other means and or due to restraints on your current system. Either upgrade to PC or accept restraints on the console. There’s likely reasons for it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  10. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Watched the stream today with Matt. I honestly think Matt does not care he was answering questions that I had and just providing very mundane answers. Now yes your producer you're not supposed to give out upcoming info, But asking about the game generally come on. I asked him some questions regarding how they plan to fix the various LIRR issues, I get no answer it's like he blocks comments like this. This is just very rude. Though here are some positives DTG does have a really creative team and they really care about their passion TRAINS. However it is all locked behind people who like to rush trains and routes down to make a quick buck. The modern gaming economy is honestly trash with most companies falling into the money pit and taking hundreds of thousands from their loyal consumers that keep those same companies alive. I'm not trying to start an issue in any way i'm just pointing out what I (As a half-loyal supporter/consumer) think of this company. Come on DTG I know they have a good side please start making better choices.
     
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  11. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Active Member

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    Wasn't complaining just saying not to bothered tbh
     
  12. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Matt during the stream pointed out that there is a lot of traffic. During that moment I knew he was joking or lying hopefully. It's annoying me so much to see that Matt probably knows of all the issues right now but is just avoiding it and just trying to make more $$$.
     
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  13. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    Lot of traffic where?
     
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  14. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Matt also stated himself during the stream I quote "The M3 will be used in-place for the M7". This could be a clear giveaway that the M3 will being using recycled services. I really do not like this lazy idea. But hey maybe this is just funny talk I still have hopes.
     
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  15. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    Now to think of it, was the Rapid Transit same thing of recycled service adding the their loco DLC a while back??
     
  16. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Anyways that's enough TSW 2020 talk for me today if you have any questions regarding me, Don't hesitate to ask. Please no inappropriate comments or questions. Have a great Evening/Night/Morning depending on where you live.
     
  17. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    I dont see how LIRR has lot of traffic but HRR dlc has HEAVY traffic god knows how many timetable service...this was rushed jus to mess with up.....but didnt a certain someone in this thread say Matt was working on actual timetables in his SPARE time????explain that?
     
  18. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    I can not be certain for sure about that, but I still have a lot of hope for the M3 and I hope they make the right choices.
     
  19. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    We know who said that, but u have better Hope's than me lmao I wait till I see videos to decide to whether waste time for this "substitution" dlc
     
  20. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Same i'm going to wait until I see videos to confirm that this DLC is worth it. Though I always had a passion for the M3 type cars I would expect top tier detail as stated within the Dovetail Live post. But can't be sure until we get more info.
     
  21. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    Yea again I see videos first...btw,
    have u drove a M3 before??
     
  22. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Member

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    I think that both Matt and Dmitri do what they are told to do, even if they don't really like it, maybe not always, it's like companies work. Dmitri is about to quit DTG by the way.
     
  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    How old fashioned are DTG. They literally have zero transparency with their fan base, but they want us to continue to buy their products?

    Here’s one thing, learn how to communicate properly for starters.

    Asking questions during live streams is pretty much pointless, as you’ll always get “I can’t say anything right now/I can’t say anything until it is officially released” with other questions being quite clearly ignored.

    Clearly the higher ups have ordered them to keep their mouths shut, otherwise there will be consequences.

    Yes, that has happened in the past. Although I won’t mention who it is for their sake.
     
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  24. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    Rapid Transit's DB BR 182 added an entirely new layer of services. Now that I think about it, this will be the first passenger train DLC (I'm even including the Amtrak switcher which added Metroliner Cab Car services, and the Caltrain switcher which added the MLK special service), other than the Baby Bullet (for obvious reasons, since the schedule was 100% done), to not add an extra layer of passenger service (I don't consider Western Somerset to be authentic passenger service). It will be another first, truly another example of regression in DTG's recent catalog.
     
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  25. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Yes I do understand. I'm saddened by Dmitri's dismissal but I respect his decision. I will miss him. It is truly sad how these people working their hearts out on these DLC's really don't have so much power.
     
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  26. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily I have worked with a friend who was in a training session on the M3. But I have worked it in the maintenance shop before. I would say yes I have some sort of experience with the M3. But I never got to experience the M1 before they got retired/scrapped. Before you ask YES I operated some R32 trains before I love their combined throttle/brake handle it is so 90s like. But I do prefer the R32 Pre GOH. Just like most of you people trains are my hobby and strong interest. I was fortunate to have a family that grew up in the MTA system. My favorite of the LIRR fleets is the M3/M1 mixed consist when they used to run. As for NYCT it is the legendary R32 standing at 56-7 years in service. Unfortunately the R32 will be retiring by the end of the COVID-19 pandemic. There will be a ceremonial trip I presume? similar to the R42 final trip.
     
  27. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    So the DB Br 182 added new layer of service but they cant do the same for LIRR???IM jus gon assume they favor more for german content....then if that's the case(as far as this LIRR goes) I'm not wasting money for an added lazy content..I'm sorry to feel that way!
     
  28. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    Niceeeee I asked cuz that cab is fricken CRUNCHED up idk how ppl drive in the m1/3..hard to keep the door closed
     
  29. Joe-c127

    Joe-c127 New Member

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    The R32s are already retired,someone on facebook posted a memo on it.with the R32 cars retired,it's the end of an era.
     
  30. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Not really most cars if not all cars were temporarily removed from revenue service. The current surviving cars are being mothballed at various yards throughout the system. The official last trip is still debatable but will be after this horrible pandemic is over. The R32 fleet is still technically running just not in normal service, The R32 fleet is a contingency fleet now, Meaning they are being used for extra service ONLY. If you are a railfanner I recommend you film or take pictures of those "Tin Cans" (The R32s) before they go for good. About 100 cars were retired in january 2020, 40 more were in february 2020 & 56 were in march 2020. This leaves roughy 48-54 cars (about 5-8 trains) in service that are being used as extra trains. When the R211 order arrives then the 48-54 cars will all be retired ending a beloved NYCT era.
     
  31. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    DTG should consider adding a NYCT DLC of some sort with those legendary R32 type cars.
     
  32. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    I don't think you'd want them to recreate the subway system. It's not gonna be up to the standards that we, who live in the city will expect.
     
  33. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    ....Plus driving in a subway isn't exactly err scenic **cough** boring **cough**
    Those underground sections in NEC, LIRR & RT are bad enough...I don't think I would want to play a DLC which is 100% underground
     
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  34. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    My god a subway system with missing tunnels parts like on LIRR route
     
  35. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    What about partially underground? Jubilee Line on the London Underground for example
     
  36. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Or just wait till it comes out and see if there's a timetable. If there's not one at launch, don't wait for a statement, just wait for the timetable and only buy the DLC when it's finished!

    It seems bizarre to me that they would release this without new services though - there are huge gaps to fill on LIRR which I've always assumed would be filled by a DLC train. Just swapping out the M7s for M3s is nonsense.
     
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  37. GMB248

    GMB248 New Member

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    If there were any route to go based off of, I'd suggest the J being that majority of it is elevated, including the view of the Manhattan Skyline over the Williamsburg Bridge. I'd just wait and see if DTG would be able to fix up their issues in the past to be able to continue with such. Hearing about the schedules and how the M3 would only replace M7 services is a disappointment.
     
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This hasn't been confirmed by DTG so I would treat it as speculation
    On just about all other routes there has been substitution and additional service layers, so I would be surprised if there was only direct sub on this one...
     
  39. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Matt said in a stream that it just replaces the current M7 services. He’s also working on his own version of the timetable, to revamp it, to add a significant amount of extra services.

    So why would DTG bother creating an extra layer of timetable when he is working on a massive timetable overhaul himself?

    This pretty much concludes that there will be no changes to the timetable with this add-on but the absolute confirmation is when DTG announces this officially.
     
  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Must've missed that stream... As Matt is project manager that pretty much is confirmation.

    Hopefully when the overhaul happens they will add in more layers. Sucks though
     
  41. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    DTG.....tell us one thing, why do you like to screw us over. I mean sure the M3 and M7 do swap services irl,but i said like before the M3 can suffer from excessive substitution......the M3 has its own schedule and it is unique to its own schedule.....there is a lot you all need to work on.
     
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  42. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    Most of the routes in NYC are mainly underground but that doesn't mean they aren't exciting to play. Every station is built a little different from each other, there are lots of artistic stations or even small pieces of art littered through our subway system. Once you exit the tunnels you are brought into light with different city scenes to see from different parts of our city. There is so much i can go on about from our handful of cars new and old and even diesel engines from moving trash to stalled train cars. Many people outside our city only sees tunnels but we see something different. It's why i can't rely on DTG to recreate it.
     
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  43. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    I am curious what the NYC subway would look like for TSW. For now, we have OpenBVE for the NYC subway which does a great job with subway physics and sounds. Over the years, scenery in OpenBVE has slowly but surely gotten better.
     
  44. EvanEv

    EvanEv New Member

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    Soo.... we getting a release date?
     
  45. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    36th of the month.
     
  46. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    OpenBVE is a great software for the NYC subway however one could say the technology it uses is fairly obsolete compared to Unreal Engine 4 of which TSW uses. The subway on TSW would look amazing, That's if their is little no substitution on the various routes. Going back to the M3 discussion the M3 was stated my Matt that it was going to be used as substitution. I hate what I have heard so far about the M3. So your saying I'm paying 20$ USD for a nice oldschool train that has a lot of potential but is being potentially ruined by substitution. But I will give credit in real life the M3 does share services with the M7/M9 but NOT ALL. This would be very lazy, Once again it is still speculation.
     
  47. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Because we have no hard evidence either by an official post or article by DTG for substitution of the M3 I will let it slide for now. But what I have heard it seems like the M3 will replace all M7 services.
     
  48. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    What do u mean by all M7 services? But the main question is will the M7 be able to run at the same time as the M3 in AI traffic and will the M3 be AI traffic as well?
     
  49. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    What it might mean is: Services where there was an M7, there will be an M3. It replaces some services instead of adds a new layer. This means the timetable is still the same and will still be a barren wasteland as before. This is no bueno. We're hoping that it adds more services instead of replacing. Adding good = replace bad
     
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  50. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    Dont forget.....there isn't concrete evidence about M3 replacing M7 services.
     

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