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Tsw: Power Up The Pennines

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Hi All,

    Great to see you're all suitably excited about our upcoming Trans-Pennine route. I wanted to address some of the comments and questions posted here, my answers below.

    We wanted to first focus on the passenger element as that was the critical component of British Rail's Trans-Pennine services back in the day, hence it's name. However, the freight element (which will be a separate add-on in the form of a loco pack) is heavily in development and we'll be taking you through this at the appropriate time. So for all you freight lovers out there, we're certain you'll love what we have coming ;)

    Yes they can. You'll also note that this is the days before computer control so you'll need to set the destination in every cab of your train - just like they did back in the day.

    All vehicles in this time period are of the slam door variety - central door locking didn't come along until much later.

    The route is called Northern Trans-Pennine because Northern refers to the geographical area of England the route is situated in and Trans-Pennine referring to the collective name used by the Department for Transport (British Rail/ways) to brand the majority of the services that have operated over the route since the 1940s. Also because North of England Huddersfield Line in the 1980s really didn't sound all that compelling... :)

    Due to the prevailing speed limits, flashing yellows were not a feature of this route in the time period represented and actually didn't come along until much later. Much of this route didn't even have AWS as did many Northern routes.

    Best, Steve
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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  2. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the response. Fair enough on the flashing yellows, though we still need them for GWE and future modern British routes to give an accurate representation of the signalling. I do notice that you have missed my other questions though about a couple of long standing bugs:

    • Will the issue with AI locomotives not having exhaust be addressed for this DLC, if yes, will the fix be applied to WSR?
    • Will the issue where all the coach doors open, even if the platform isn't long enough for the train, be corrected for this DLC and will the fix be applied to WSR?

    I think "The North of England - Huddersfield Line" sounds as it is, a bit run down and industrial, as the area was at the time.
     
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  3. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Alright, false alarm then. No more major complaints on the route, especially from someone who is not from Northern England and thus barely cares about the windows on the class 101. Keep it up, I think I will buy this. Nice work, DTG! This has the potential to be better than RSN!
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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  4. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Hi Digital Draftsman,

    Yes, sorry that was my fault, I missed it from my first run over the comments.

    On the exhaust issue, I can't confirm where we are with this but I have just notified the team that this is a concern and we should look into it.

    On the doors opening off the platform, this is a trickier issue as it's essentially reliant on the passengers themselves. The way doors work right now was just an interim method - we don't like how it works right now either. The goal is that passengers will arrive on a platform, wait for the next train and then open the nearest door to them to board. This is something we are actively looking at but there is no confirmation of when it will arrive just yet. However, please be assured that it is something we are looking to change.

    Just also to mention, I have raised the other feedback with the team relating to the comments on the DMU windows and front end.

    Best, Steve
     
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  5. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Cheers Steve, I appreciate you taking the time to respond and letting us know what the score is. Thanks.
     
  6. eurocityboy

    eurocityboy Member

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    Thanks for the clarifications, Steve. The route looks very promising, but I fear that without any freight element whatsoever, it will come in for an absolute hammering in the reviews (perhaps unfairly so, the rest of the route and rolling stock could be amazing). People rightly expect freight for a northern English route of that era, it's just not the same without it. We are not asking for much, a simple coal hopper and some freight services in the timetable will make all the difference in the world.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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  7. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Hi eurocityboy,

    Totally appreciate your (and everyone else's) thoughts on this and thanks for sharing it with us. I'll make sure this is raised with the team :)

    Best, Steve
     
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  8. Pookiebarra

    Pookiebarra New Member

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    Metro Camel units.... not sat in the cab of one of them since the late 70,s. Up and down the gear box.
     
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  9. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    This is quite possibly the best communication with DTG we've had so far!
     
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  10. Manchester-Victoria

    Manchester-Victoria New Member

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    At the era modeled, I don't think there were any flashing yellows on this route.
     
  11. AlexNL

    AlexNL Active Member

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    But not releasing in december would mean missing the Christmas season, a time when people have time off and are more willing to spend some money. It wouldn't surprise me if this route is going to be released on all platforms before Christmas.
     
  12. Cael

    Cael Active Member

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    First of all, I have to give huge thumbs up to Steve for communicating with us :)

    I don't mind having the freight coming as a separate addition since this is already 1 new route, 2 new trains and 1 new coat of paint for class 47. I do have a concern though about the lack of live gameplay before the release of the LIRR route and the resulting disappointment over the Service mode on my part. Will there be a live stream prior to the release? I am very interested in this route, however, I won't be purchasing the content before seeing in-game footage as was the case with Ruhr Sieg Nord.
     
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  13. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Yep, DTG already confirmed this.

     
  14. Manchester-Victoria

    Manchester-Victoria New Member

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    Will I be buying this route.....the clue is my name. This was my home depo with British Rail.Just need to upgade my PC, anone wan't to buy two slightly grubby Grandchildren?
     
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  15. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I'll just reiterate an old question: will those who buy the first Pennines package receive a discount on Pennines II?

    And, just to follow suit, add a second: are shunting activities scheduled for inclusion in Pennines II -- long freight runs attract me about as little as passenger traffic.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  16. JT_29O5

    JT_29O5 New Member

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    Hi Steve
    Would you be able to give any feedback at all on whether or not we will see road traffic in this DLC and / or leaf-less trees with winter season set? Thanks.
     
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  17. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Uh... what?

    If DTG is pitching this as a single-route poco pack, than only existing Pennines owners would be buying it. There are similar loco packs for the US routes and WSR. Adding a discount because someone has something they need to run the thing isn't a discount, it's just a price change.

    All loco packs so far have been about $20 USD or £12, and they have gone on sale at 50% off fairly frequently.
     
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  18. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    ...and in HH. There are also people walking the sidewalks/pavements in HH too.
     
  19. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Hey Steve, good to see you back engaging on the forum, and thanks for the extra information. On a different thread a while back we’d discussed routes ‘oop North’ so I’m pretty stoked to see this, really looking forward to it. You had mentioned licensing as a reason we hadn’t seen routes in this specific area...I’m probably asking a question you can’t answer, but given the acquiring of that licence, might we see a modern day take on / extension to this area at any point?

    I was also pleased to read the studio update today. I’m slightly more optimistic that DTG are taking onboard some of the feedback being flung in Chatham's direction. It’s good to see.

    Now, if you can just get all these bugs squashed! ;-)
     
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  20. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there were any Flashing Yellow signals on this line as the Maximum speed was around 80mph in this era.
     
  21. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The outer windows looks slightly bigger because they have a black rubber strip in the picture but I believe all three windows are of the same size
    101 LLJ 3.jpg
     
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  22. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The Class 101 Dmu is a Slam Door train which either the Passengers or Guard closed.
    There is no Automatic system for closing the doors
     
  23. Manchester-Victoria

    Manchester-Victoria New Member

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    Just a thought. I said earlier that Man Victoria was my home station,so I got to know it quite well.On platform 11, there was a goods (foot)bridge towards the Eastern end.Close by the goods lift up to the bridge, there was hanging the biggest 4 sided gas lamp I have ever seen,not working of cause. Are you going to model it?
     
  24. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    How about on the older trains the option isnt open doors. Its Enable Guard? Ai takes over opens doors. Ai closes doors after boarding and sounds a whistle. Triggering door procedure complete.
     
  25. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Unfortunately, with Luke having left us for greener grass and Matt now enjoying some much needed, and highly deserved, time off, there may not be an opportunity to show this route in a live sitting. However, I will ask the question in here and see where it gets me - I'll report back my findings. Finger's crossed!

    No decisions have been made on what the pricing will be on the package but I'll certainly make sure your feelings are put forward when we have that meeting.

    On the shunting question, I'm going to make you wait to find that out ;)

    I'm not sure on the road traffic - we're not happy with this ourselves and I know we are currently working out the technicalities of this but I'll try to get some info for you on this. On the leafless trees, this was passed to the team and I believe is being looked at - so I'm confident it will be consistent with the Ruhr-Sieg route others have referenced in this thread.

    Thanks hightower. I can't talk about what might be coming up but I can tell you that, given there are several of us in the company (myself included) that are from the North, we are keen to bring a modern northern experience to both Train Sim World and Train Simulator. So watch this space on that - we are certainly fighting in that corner for all our fellow Northerners ;)

    I'm not sure whether you're asking whether we've modelled Platform 11, the goods lift or the gas lamp. We have certainly modelled Britain's longest platform (Platform 11) but I'm not sure whether we've modelled the lift or the gas lamp - that part of the route is still heavily in development and is incomplete so I can't confirm. If you have photos, I can promise I'll make sure they find their way to the team.

    Best, Steve
     
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  26. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Milford yard to drax coal merry go round dlc. Class 56 br? If gbrf didnt agree to a contemporary biomass train?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  27. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Music to my ears. With all the options in the North in terms of routes, lines, industries and big stations it should be rich pickings.

    Thanks for replying! :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  28. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    I will not be purchasing anything from DTG until Ive seen what state its in on release. That has been my strategy since GWE as time after time with the various dlc Ive seen the initial hype rapidly deteriorate into the regular exposure of obvious bugs that shouldn't have made it past testing. We are not talking little bugs here but major errors that are immediately apparent to many users (pax on the line for example). This is an obvious purchaser habit consequence on my part to abstain thus and requires no further discussion, and sadly I harbour little hope that DTG will suddenly start testing their products to ensure they are ready for release. It saddens me a little to see the almost obsequious response to each interaction of a member of DTG appearing on the forum, when we all know that the next dlc, while welcome, will almost certainly be a buggy and emotionless world with little immersion and few services.

    Some of you may feel that this is a little strong, but allow me my opinion, and give it due consideration. If you don't agree, is it on an emotional level or as part of a reasoned response.. I'm simply trying to keep DTGs feet to the fire in order to get the strategic direction shifted not massively, but slightly towards quality and away from quantity.

    TSW is a good product, but it is also a buggy mess. Room for improvement? Certainly. Its also not currently installed on my rig because its just too lacking in ambience to keep me coming back again and again. You see, I'm not a massive train buff. I barely know my class 47 from my class 56 (actually I lie, they look the same to me). Its a relaxing game for me, that I can play to take me away from the massively greater stresses of my real world job, return to a nostalgic wonder of trains that I had in my youth etc etc. Does TSW do that? Not really, because little things (or big- its all a matter of perspective) like sound quality, rain in stations, reflections through steel walls, cab lighting in tunnels etc all conspire to take that away.

    Why have I written all this? Because it makes me feel better to arrange my thoughts on the page, to review them and see if they might be valid, to share them with you to see if you agree or disagree and assess the more thoughtful responses, to get what I think must be said to DTG said, and if after all this they still persist releasing unready products, then as an individual I will recognise the unsuitability of my continued participation with the DTG and TSW franchise. This would be a sad day for me, but I think I'd get over it fairly quickly in all honesty, because playing computer games isn't a massive deal for me, whereas continuing to make them is a little more cash relevant for the various employees.

    Have a good one all. Time for a tea.
     
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  29. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Im a bit more optimistic based on what I see on twitch. Matt Peddlesden on holiday, but playing and streaming TSW every night. He also entertains a lot of questions and criticisms of his game. You might find it interesting. Id probably be in a similar boat to yourself without seeing the passion that comes through on twitch.
     
  30. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Matt P is kind of interesting. I know that he’s extremely popular and he also deserves significant credit for the time he spends effectively promoting the product outside of work hours.

    However I do think people, because of his passion, also give him a bit of a pass. He’s not just one of the ‘blokes’ (or blokesses) at DTG. He’s pretty senior. Notably when David Cameron visited DTG’s offices he’s shown sitting next to Matt. So, while the passion is good it’s also true that Matt has to be one of the signatures on the sign-off sheet when new DLC is released to the market. I’d doubt whether he’s unaware of bug issues when he signs that sheet - after all he’s the Producer for TSW.

    There’s no reason not to like Matt or admire him for his efforts or on occasions his candor. But, if DTG is going to start addressing issues with TSW then Matt is a key person to make that start happening. Unless people like him get on board nothing is going to change.
     
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  31. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I’m inclined to agree with you, but only to an extent. I think he’s actually in a very difficult position, and I’ve absolutely no hard evidence of that except for the following...

    In a discussion on Discord about the HH diesel electrics, he said that they’re almost there, but they’re taking their time because they want to get it right. The critical bit of the statement was that there was ‘no business pressure’. I’m paraphrasing obviously.

    Now, clearly DTG are under commercial pressure like every business but it would seem that the senior managers are demanding (again, my interpretation) that the developers release software to market that they’re not happy with. I think once you get into this MO it becomes a vicious cycle that’s very hard to break. Where does the revenue come from to bridge the time gap required to switch to investing the correct amount of development into a product?

    You could say (and, if I’m honest, have thought in the past) as Senior Producer, why doesn’t Matt P stand up to them and say no? I guess the problem is that Train Sim is clearly more than a job to him. Do you take the principled stand and walk away to let someone else do the job, or do you stay and try and fashion things as you’d want them?

    A very tricky position to be in.

    The above is all entirely my interpretation of where things are of course.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  32. Lombra

    Lombra Member

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    Well, ideally it would come from people recommending TSW as the premier train simulator. It would come from customers knowing that they're going to get good value for their money. It would come from loyal and returning customers.

    Often, when someone asks about TSW, the answer is "well, the graphics are great, but...".
     
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  33. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    hightower fair comment. But Matt isn’t a developer, he’s the Producer and stealing from Wikipedia this is what he’s responsible for
    • Negotiating contracts, including licensing deals
    • Acting as a liaison between the development staff and the upper stakeholders (publisher or executive staff)
    • Developing and maintaining schedules and budgets
    • Overseeing creative (art and design) and technical development (game programming) of the game
    • Ensuring timely delivery of deliverables (such as milestones)
    • Scheduling timely quality assurance (testing)
    • Arranging for beta testing and focus groups, if applicable
    • Arranging for localization
    • Pitching game ideas to publishers
    Note he’s the link between the development staff and management and the particular references to testing and also that he develops the schedules and budgets.

    In my commercial experience having the passionate and often most expert person running the show isn’t always what you want. Yes, you want them involved at an influential level (I see Matt as a sort of the ‘father’ of TSW) but for budgeting, scheduling, testing etc. sometimes you want someone who is a little less involved (less passionate) and more focused on business delivery. Sometimes you want someone like Matt working his management over a beer rather than spending 22 hours in the office.

    As you say ‘entirely my interpretation’.
     
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  34. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Its not only the developers that might put pressure in the date dlc comes out. Only have to browse this forum. To see anytime somethings announced its “when when when?”. Im guilty of this too.
    My wheels are already turning. If its unlikely that there will be chance to livestream the dlc before Matt gets back. Start of Jan. Then the dlc is coming out before then...?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  35. tbaac

    tbaac New Member

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    Looking forward to this one. Slam door trains in BR Blue, and its set in the era rather than being a heritage line. Nice selection of locos as well.
     
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  36. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Aswell as a loco freight pack add on
     
  37. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, seriously. The fanboys need to learn that DTG is really shady and not all sunshine and rainbows. I agree with you there. For example, I wanted an LIRR route for TS so bad, but they came out with it on TSW instead which was a red flag for me that it would most likely be a lot less than what I was hoping for. I waited until after the release, read the reviews, and sure enough everybody was saying how much it sucked. Glad I didn't buy it. If they come out with a better, longer, and less buggy LIRR route for TS, I might consider getting it. But for now, it's just not worth the money at all.
     
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  38. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t suck. It clearly has issues but it doesn’t suck. The M7 is one of the best trains in the sim and I’ve really enjoyed playing the route.

    Service mode is way too quiet, and only one included train is poor, but if you really wanted the LIRR then I think you’d enjoy it. I’m optimistic we’ll see a patch for the route when the Huddersfield line is released as that seems to have become the norm.

    ps I ain’t no fanboy!
     
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  39. nattydredd

    nattydredd New Member

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    I am looking forward to this route big time!
    I lived near the railway line in Collyhurst, and spent a lot of time on Miles Platting station as a kid.
    I'm hoping you get that area spot on! I can help, and supply many many pics of the area in detail from the early 80's.

    Nat.
     
  40. nattydredd

    nattydredd New Member

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    NTP_0003.jpg 9630507899_eda5dfa897_b.jpg On another quick note, this is a Google sourced image of 47001 at Vic in 1982. No Semaphores. Not sure if these two images are of the same place.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  41. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the semaphores were on the entry to the station. Other side of the bridge.
     
  42. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I hope they add some weathering to those MK2s, as they look far too clean and plastic looking. Almost looks like a model railway.
     
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  43. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    Surely you're used to pristine stock from DTG by now?
     
  44. JT_29O5

    JT_29O5 New Member

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    I took the plunge with the 33 WSR dlc last night, having watched a couple of player vids, and if they build the new rolling stock for transpennine to that same standard we are in for a treat. The 47 might just be a reskin of the WSR model (not that it is bad by any means, the 33 just seems to be another level of quality) but I’m looking forward to see what they do with the newbies. It’s the environmental factors I’m more concerned about (road traffic and winter trees) but hopefully Steve will have some updates on progress with those.
     
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  45. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Thats what Im thinking.. 47 is tge same shell, different cab from what Ive heard.
     
  46. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Although I haven't messed bought the class 33 yet (I only buy DLC while on sale or preorder discount), the destination thing on the class 101 seems to work in a similar way to the headcode thing on the class 33 (excuse me if I'm not exactly familiar with British rail terminology), which looks promising!
     
  47. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I hope that isn’t the case as it was definitely not ‘fresh out the works’ at that time. BR was known for its dirtiness. It just wouldn’t look right if it stayed clean looking.
     
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  48. tbaac

    tbaac New Member

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    You've probably seen that's its available for preorder now. Some of the photos on the steam page now look pretty dirty.

    Re the quality of the models, I'm hoping for some really nice models included with the new route obviously. But at the same time, the Class 33 cost about the same as the new route plus 3 locos and some rolling stock does. The press release described the Peak as "the star of the show" so I'm hoping that some time will have been spent on the features and physics on that one at least.

    Pre-ordered anyway. btw, have we got PIS signs on platforms yet? Would be a nice feature I think.

    Thanks.
     
  49. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    A patch from DTG? Yeah you probably will see one...for added language support. Good luck getting one that will fix any of the real problems with the route. I'm not trying to be a hater here. It's just the way DTG works.
     
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  50. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Er, there was a fairly sizeable patch when LIRR was released (the latest in a line of patches) covering all the other DLCs except HH, including the revised physics for GWE. There will be a patch before too long applying the new physics to HH.

    I like to hope I’m balanced in my opinions, and have been pretty (constructively - I think) critical of DTG where I’ve personally felt it appropriate. Equally, they deserve credit where credit is due, and there is a lot about TSW that is good. Yes LIRR shouldn’t have been released with the obvious bugs it carries, but that doesn’t mean it blanket sucks. I bought it, and I think it was worth the money. You don’t have it, so your opinion is kinda moot.

    Still, thanks for the downvote.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
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