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Tsw: Seaside Spectacular!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Nov 28, 2019.

  1. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well the German trains we have in TSW don't have any scrolling text in reality. What they do however is show the next stop, not just the destionation.

    And of course, with DTG being DTG, we have the 422 with displays inside and out, the DoSto with displays outside, and the Talent and BR 143 where still no displays work at all.

    I guess in the UK it will be the same.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  2. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    i wonder if we will be driving the variations of coaches, ie 2, 3,4,6,8 like on this video. nice vid by the way
     
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  3. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well the 377/4 is a 4-car unit, so only 4, 8 and 12-car trains are possible with that. The 3-car ones are 377/3, which is not included in the DLC. Unless, of course, DTG pulls another RRO and accidentally sends 3-cars on their way :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  4. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    i wonder if they will model morrisons the supermarket as well cos i saw morrisons near one station lol
     
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  5. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Active Member

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    How does that stuff work?
    DTG won't be able to make a Morrisons but take Cities Skylines for example. Modders there have created IKEAs, Poundland, Wendys etc to put into the game.
    If an asset is available on Steam for distribution by a lone poster, I guess they are in breach of some law?
     
  6. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I was surprised we got WH Smith’s at Reading station
     
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  7. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Active Member

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    DTG must have some agreement there, as WH Smiths have been on stations since the 1910's or similar. Is it the same on US and DB routes? Well known shops etc?
     
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  8. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well DTG did place the Bauhaus hardware store in Wuppertal ;)

    Those Cities:Skylines modders - I'm one myself - are technically committing trademark infringement, that is correct.
    However, most companies don't care if you use their logo for some freeware item. But as soon as you want to sell something wih their logo - for money - they will want their share.

    One would think they'd be happy about free publicity, but that doesn't seem to the way it works.

    Edit: Trademark infringement, not copyright. That's something different yet again.

    146 278 Wuppertal-Oberbarmen 01.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  9. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Well-Known Member

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    There is no agreement, but from what I remember developers can use stationary objects like houses with the respective branding as long as objects remain stationary and are not used in the promotions.
     
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  10. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Active Member

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    That's interesting and something I'm sure not many people think about, Thanks, TrainSim-Dmitri.
    So you could theoretically populate Paddington with Cornish pasties, Booths, TESCO's etc?
    Same for Cities Skylines I assume then?
     
  11. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well Skylines like I said is a bit of a grey area, and I personally mostly stay away from anything with logos on it. After all, in theory these companies had any right in the world to say, not without our permission mate. Now take that stuff offline or we'll meet at court.

    One particular case back in MSTS days, a particular German website which hosted freeware add-ons got fined for unauthorized use of some company's logo (it was never revealed publicly, which one) and from then on they required anything with a logo to be accompanied by a forwarded e-mail from the rights holder, agreeing to the usage.

    So, when I wanted to publish that beer reefer trailer of a local brewery here in town, I was asked by the webmaster of said site to please contact them first.
    Needless to say they were exceptionally happy "that our van has caught your attention, and we happily consent with its use for the purpose you described."

    But they also made sure to include a warning not to commercialise their content.

    Commercialising is another mixed bag in itself. What they had in mind is, don't sell that asset you made. Putting it on a website that makes a bit of money through adverts, that's nothing they have a problem with. Different lawyers in different companies might differ though.
     
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  12. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    It is a bit of a grey area and as with most law it comes down to interpretation. You can look at it from an ethical perspective and just say you should always get permission, but generally businesses will weigh up the risk of getting taken to court and whether they'll win/lose and if they can afford to win/lose base on what they gain.

    If you're using the branding to assist in selling products and it's likely people purchased your product based upon the inclusion of the branding, you might lose a lawsuit. The same goes for using the branding in a way that damages the brand, so perhaps showing a W H Smiths sign broken or covered in graffiti, you might lose a lawsuit.

    There's also the likelihood of a lawsuit actually happening in the first place. Lawsuits cost money, so would W H Smith even bother going after DTG to get their free advertisement removed from a game which is rated E? Maybe if it was being used in a violent FPS game they might, but it's unlikely it would be worth their time and money to go after DTG.

    The context as well is important, video games are often regarded as art and much like Andy Warhol with his Campbell's soup cans, you can get away with incorporating brands into art.

    Let's face it, you can do everything by the book and still face a lawsuit!
     
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  13. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    For a release that is supposed to be due next week, they’re awfully quiet - the German DLCs and US ones had loads of press. No news is good news but this is a concern. Mercury must be in retrograde at high speed!
     
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  14. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Very true. I’m hoping a trailer will drop sometime this week.
     
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  15. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    On an unrelated note: Am I the only one who keeps reading "TSW: Seaside Spectacular" as "Teesside Spectacular"

    Always those Alliteration Affluent Advertisements :)
    No time to talk, they're hastily laying those tracks to Hastings!
     
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  16. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I can imagine the panic in the office:

    Employee Bloggs: 'Mr DTG, sir, they've realised we're only doing half of the East Coastway and we've not included the actual 'coastway' bit along the coast!!! What do we do!?!?!?'

    DTG: 'Damn it Bloggs!!! Don't just sit there, get the UE4 Editor open and start laying track immediately!!!'


    It'll already be with Steam now, so it's too late for any changes. Unless they delay release it won't be going to Hastings sadly. One of my issues with DTG is that when they announce a product it's almost always already with Steam, so when they get feedback from the community it's too late to change anything.

    For example, the yellow AWS magnets should be green AWS magnets because of the third rail. That's a really simple thing to correct, it's a minor texture change which could be done in 5 minutes. But because it's already with Steam for approval DTG can't make the change.
     
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  17. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't mean things can't be changed though as far as I'm aware. Steam isn't like the much stricter Playstation sore or what it was. And even that must have a way to take into account last minute bugfixes etc. revealing themselves necessary.

    They sure were able to change the Amtrak shunter's roof from white to black after it was pointed out to be wrong. If Steam workshop items are anything to go by: You can change, modify, replace, delete them at a moment's notice.
     
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  18. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    Just to let you know they release a picture every week day on there insta and the dovetail picture album
     
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  19. Amirakun

    Amirakun New Member

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    Living along the line, I'm always wanted the East Coastway in TS2020 or TSW, and I was so excited when I saw the blog post until I realised it doesn't go all the way. It seems like such an own goal, as extending to Ore or Hastings adds so much more operational variety to the route. Driving from Brighton into Eastbourne and having to change ends and set the train up to take it along to Ore would be a fantastically immersive use of TSW's walking feature; likewise, you could also take a train in and out of Ore's reversal siding to start the next service.

    Terminating at Eastbourne loses so much to me and I won't be purchasing this unless it's at a very steep discount. I'm sure the train and the route detailing will be sublime, but the Coastway to me is all about the views along the coast.
     
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  20. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    If it’s already with steam, why are they making us wait another 10 days if no further changes will be made by DTG?
     
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  21. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Changes still can be made.
     
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  22. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    You can definitely make the change even if it's with steam or not. Especially since the game is already out and they're just releasing DLC. Also even so, it can be added as a day one patch. It's never too late with steam. Xbox and PlayStation on the other hand are questionable.
     
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  23. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Valve have to perform checks on the release build of the software to approve it for release, this can take up to 5 working days. If it's rejected, time is needed to make changes before undergoing a second check by Valve. So generally the final build will be with Valve a couple of weeks before release.
     
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  24. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    This means expansion for Class 700s if they’ve got a licence from Go Ahead Group.
    For the mainline, possibly.
     
  25. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    Good point so how does this work with the electrostar 377 do dtg have to get permission from southern and bombardier to use this train as it is a real actual train?
     
  26. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Southern definitely, Bombardier too perhaps. Designs can be copyrighted as well, but these expire after x time. Seeing how the TSW fleet is like 85% Bombardier, they seem easier to work with than say, Siemens or Stadler. Especially the latter being a pity, I'd totally love to see a Flirt in TSW!
     
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  27. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    From Southern Yes, from Bombardier possibly, it depends on whether the aesthetic design of the train is Bombardier's intellectual property, if it is then they would probably require permission.

    Fewer people would buy a Class 377 in a fictious livery, so the Southern brand is adding a lot to the value of the product. When you compare it the W H Smith's branding, having that in the game probably wasn't a deal breaker for anyone, so W H Smith are not losing out, where as Southern would be.
     
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  28. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    Tell you something it’s a magnificent work of art dtg done on it I’ve seen the pics on discord it’s absolutely stunning the detail that’s there on the 377 in my mind well worth the £30 just on quality of 377 itself
     
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  29. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    Also another opportunity there the fact that in a good day we can right a long standing southern wrong and show southern how to run trains in time lol
     
  30. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    The modeling, the visuals of those TSW trains... hands down that's something DTG are just excellent at.

    Now if that excellence could be extended into a few certain other categories... TSW would be the trainsim to rule them all.
     
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  31. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    It’s absolutely incredible the detail of the 377 interior the drivers cab is so futuristic looking with all those different screens in
     
  32. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    Yea I can easily see this class 377 being my new favourite multiple unit currently it’s the historic class 101 on the TransPennine and Darlington to saltburn line
     
  33. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Do these pics show functionality?
     
  34. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    It would be amusing to see that argued in court!

    'Your honour, DTG have in fact added value to Southern's brand, as unlike Southern in reality, TSW would give the public the impression Southern trains actually run on time!'
     
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  35. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if these units will be setup with the gsm R input features for head code and starting signal code
     
  36. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    If you like the 377, you might want to try the LIRR and DB BR 422. Only problem with the latter, it comes with RRO only.
     
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  37. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Thats what I was illuding to with your screenshot post.
     
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  38. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    i did see Bauhouse on RRO. i guess thats some german supermarket
     
  39. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Hardware store!
     
  40. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    This Newhaven aggregate train.
    Newhaven to Acton. Then Acton to Westbury and Torr Quarry.
    We have 2 sections of that contract in our TSW locker.
    Newhaven-Brighton and Acton -Reading?
     
  41. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    It will also be interesting to see how the destination display works whether we have to manually punch numbers into keypad to set destination from memory bank or whether on setup of class 377 this happens automatically
     
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  42. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    If you get notified that I downvoted you comment it was a misclick. I was trying to upvote but missed by a bit lol
     
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  43. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    I do that with messenger.. people tell me bad news and i respond with a laughing emoji when im just trying to scroll down..
     
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  44. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    I think thee most requested DLC along with the WCML in parts. I can’t wait, the first TSW addon I am genuinely excited for.

    I thinks me will spend the entire month of December salivating over the thing!! Next on the list is to replace the Nvidia card with a better one
     
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  45. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    "Three lawyers - five opinions."
    -German saying.
     
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  46. rick.mcfc

    rick.mcfc New Member

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    I know it's been mentioned previously, but what actually are the chances of the Class 52 being available for a 'railtour' type scenario on East Coastway? It seems such a shame to keep the Western confined to 25mph on WSR when it could be so much more utilised up to 90mph on East Coastway...
     
  47. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Matt mentioned it’s something they are working on, allowing trains from other routes. Add it to the list of ‘one of those things coming at an unspecified period in the future’.
     
  48. rick.mcfc

    rick.mcfc New Member

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    Well that's positive...although hopefully it doesn't take forever!
     
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  49. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    I cant imagine its far away now.
    When East Coast Way gets released, we will have 2 services or scenarios banging on the door of GWE.
    A Minehead to Paddington railtour.
    An aggregate service from Newhaven to Acton and beyond.
     
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  50. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    Cool does that mean we could use the class 377 to reading and retire the slow aged 166
     

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