1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tsw: Seaside Spectacular!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Nov 28, 2019.

  1. Amirakun

    Amirakun New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    17
    You're welcome! They also used to work a semi-fast pattern, but now they stop at all stations (bar Pevensey Bay) on their way to/from Eastbourne.

    Exactly. It doesn't feel like there is a proper endpoint to the route either. It's like if Great Western Express terminated at Slough instead of Reading or Trans-Pennine Express only went as far as Huddersfield.

    Eastbourne also doesn't feel like an 'end of a journey' station either. Coming out of the tunnel to Hastings to the the sight of semaphore signals and gazing up all the houses on the hills could be a really big 'wow moment' for the route. Terminating at Ore less so - it's one of the naffest stations on the network (unless you're a fan of palisade fencing) - but the Queen's Road bridge is very pretty.

    Since 313s only work the Lewes and Seaford services on the East Coastway*, I'm guessing Dovetail deemed it more cost effective to slap a new skin on a Class 66 and model a wagon rather than an entirely new train.

    *The 313s also used to operate a once a day return trip to Ore in the mornings, but that stopped with the East Coastway timetable reforms.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    347
    I would be amazed if we didn’t see the 313 be released at a later date as an add on, even though DTG have a mind of their own so you never know. I would have thought we would have seen a Pacer by now for Tees Valley but that hasn’t happened (yet).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    788
    I’d love to know their reasoning behind this. Cost? Time? Demand from management? I’d guess a mix of all three to be honest but we’ll never know. What we’d like and what management want are totally different.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. paulgregs

    paulgregs Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    129
    Quite a few seem to have already made their minds up on this despite the fact that not a single person has actually bought or used the product....
    Isn't it wiser to either try the route when released or get some feedback on it before deadpannig it as shite?
     
    • Like Like x 4
  5. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Nobody said shite. I said even if it will be any good, it will still be a huge missed opportunity.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    788
    What have people made their minds up on? I don’t think anyone is deadpanning it, most are unhappy at the length and the fact they didn’t go to Hastings. We’re slating the decision about the length not the actual route.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Well the point about Ore is that it's the terminal for quite a few real life service, and its only one more stop from Hastings, what everybody assumed was going to be the end of the route then.
     
  8. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Interesting though, whenever I make a complain or even rant about them damn routes always turning out too short, I mostly get something between a 70-30 and 90-10 ratio of up and downvotes. If that doesnt speak market potential, I don't know what does. And that does not even take into the majority of trainsimmers who don't even play TSW - nor a forum account - because them damn short routes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  9. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    2,734
    Perhaps they couldn’t get access to one yet.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    2,168
    Personally I would’ve preferred if this route was extended to Hastings/Ore. It would’ve required a ‘break’ in service as changing cabs is required. Reversing at Eastbourne and going down the diverging lines. I’m not too bothered about the Seaford branch really.

    I really do question some of the decisions the management of DTG make sometimes...
     
    • Like Like x 4
  11. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    With the route we are getting, having Seaford is probably not a bad thing, but yeah.. I'd totally have sacrificed that for Hastings. Seaside Spectacular... more like Landlocked Lackluster.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
    • Like Like x 5
  12. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    253
    Yea but when you think about it in a way we are given the opportunity to own a Morden technological marvel especially given bombardier Derby Litchurch lane stopped making the electrostar emu last year now they moved on to the Adventa emu
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    253
    Apparently something is being released next Wednesday for this possibly a video clip
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Will it reveal that they stated the wrong Eastern endpoint for the route? Which kinda made its way into the promo material, but was changed after the backlash they got for RRO being so short?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    2,734
    What do you mean?
     
  16. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    253
    In all honesty I’m not sure I saw a post that stated there would be something on Wednesday
     
  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    2,734
    There wasn’t one.
     
  18. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    347
    I’m hoping for a trailer to land tomorrow. It’ll be the usual glitz and glam with atmospheric music but it might give us some more insight. With RRO they released one a week before release.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    253
    The one thing I have just learned is that to set the electronic destination display that is achieved via the Mitrac panel on the left side of the class 377/4
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    1,698
    What percentage of TSW users, use this forum? How do you know that the users of this forum represent a broad spread of the TSW user base? I would say this place is possibly a bit of an echo chamber, probably like getting excited on The Guardian when you get up votes for making pro-left wing comments or getting upvoted on The Telegraph for making pro-right wing comments!

    We read time and time again and have done since the days of Railworks that DTG management are doing it all wrong and they aren't listening and not releasing a good enough package, yet here they are still delivering pretty much what they have always done! If their sales were being seriously affected because routes were too short then they would have to do something about it, and they aren't? So either they know what they are doing or they should be in the boardroom of the Apprentice with Lord Sugar saying "you're fired"!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    253
    Spot on I’m sold on it the class 377/4 is such a fantastically modelled train very realistic and the fact I’ve never even travelled in route it is in makes it all more fun as part of the enjoyment is learning something new from it
     
    • Like Like x 3
  22. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    253
    Think it was on the discord train sim forums
     
  23. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2018
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    541
    Hopefully, it will happen tomorrow. They release the RRO route articles 1 week apart with the trailer in the second one, so I think it will be tomorrow. It will interesting to see the video because we haven't yet seen Eastbourne or Seaford Stations.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,862
    The popularity of DLC on this forum correlates with other data such as the Steam player data. Steam reviews also highlight the same pros/cons as the members of this forum do, so I think the opinions here are fairly reflective of the userbase as a whole.

    You imply DTG are being successful in what they are doing, but without £3,500,000 in subsidies from the British government DTG probably couldn't have developed TSW and would likely have collpased after the Flight Sim World saga. They are also lucky they have a monopoly on Train Simulation which is how they get away with a lot of what they do.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  25. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Messages:
    799
    Likes Received:
    1,084
    Dang I had no idea they were subsidized.
     
  26. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,862
    They are indeed. They have received around £3,500,000 in tax breaks from the UK government via the Video Games Tax Relief scheme the British government operates.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  27. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Maybe that flightsim license getting revoked was Microsoft's attempt to sink DTG in preparation of their own (alleged) new trainsim launching. Glad it didn't work out so far, some rivalry is just what this industry needs. Not just another hand getting hold of the monopoly.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  28. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,862
    What happened was that consortium of third party Flight Sim developers got together to purchase the FSX license. DTG then came in with a ridiculous bid to ensure the third party consortium couldn't win the license. DTG intended to force all the third parties to sell their DLC through DTG to recoup the money spent on ensuring the third parties didn't get the license. Most of the third parties turned around and told DTG to get lost, so DTG was stuck paying off a massive debt for the license, with little income from third party addons, having burned their bridges with the third party developers. This is why they had to leave the Flight Sim market.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
  29. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    226
    Wondering if we would get the depot whistle working otherwise this wouldn't be realistic just saying.
     
  30. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    205
    I am looking forward to this DLC and will buy it to encourage more electric UK routes.
    It's an interesting line, it's not been covered before, it could be longer but I'll enjoy it nonetheless. My only crib would have been that the original Electrostar is an uninspiring unit, correct for this line, but a dull choice. A 313 or an OHL line with something new and exciting or old and slammy would have shut my whining-up. Maybe next time.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  31. 7orenz

    7orenz Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    200
    I'll glad if DTG add this new Class 66 livery in Brighton-Eastbourne dlc, at release date.


    Update: Also the yellow-and-green (Freightliner?) livery looks so cool.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    714
    It would be a monopoly if they were the ONLY developer making Train Sims...which is simply not true. We have Auran making the Trainz series, Run8 Studios with Run8, Lapioware with Diesel Railcar Sim etc

    Sure those mentioned are not as big as DTG when it comes to Train Simulators but by definition they are not a monopoly.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  33. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,862
    If you want to get technical, they have market dominance. But the effect is the same. No other company can compete because DTG own the two biggest train simulators on the market and have been granted millions of pounds in subsidies. The result is that they can extract more from the customer in return for less then they would be able to in a competitive market. This is why we have half a route, as well as a locomotive recycled from a previous DLC that most people already own.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    1,698
    Precisely. DTG may be the largest but if they didn't produce something people wanted, it wouldn't sell! Trainz has been around since 2001 and is well known to train simmers. I haven't looked at Run 8 or some of the other more niche simulators as they are restrictive in the areas they produce routes for. If Run 8 produced some European routes, especially UK routes then I would look at it. TS1 and TSW as far as I am concerned are the best out there, not perfect but better than the others. I also have Diesel Railcar Simulator which I enjoy too it has very good physics although its graphics are not as good but certainly decent.

    And so what if they have had a grant, lots of companies do, it can help companies get off the ground or start new projects, they don't rely on them for ever!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  35. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Of course they produce what people want. But - other than the Peninsula Corridor perhaps - they only ever produce the minimum viable product version. That's where their bad reputation comes from. Not the choice of routes or something.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  36. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Hm, including PMDG. My favourite example I keep bringing up when DTG hints at people supposedly not willing to pay what they'd have to charge for those long routes. Ane single airplane from PMDG costs well into the triple digit realm, I could buy half the TSW routes ever released for that. And probably every single DLC made so far during a sale. And PMDG have been in business for years and years and years.

    Also, imagine DTG tanking and the TSW franchise getting passed to a consortium of Aerosoft, virtualRailroads, RSSLO, whoever... wow :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  37. animalkosmik

    animalkosmik Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    1,706
    no one is stopping this consortium from creating its own train sim on Unreal Engine:)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  38. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    3,126
    Hi all, just a quick reminder for everyone to keep to the topic of this thread which is the discussion of the East Coastway announce article, thanks! :)
     
    • Like Like x 4
  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    1,698
    It is rather unedifying getting excited over the thought of a company going out of business!

    Why have those companies not produced a rival train simulator I wonder? Maybe DTG have more knowledge of the train sim market than some on here want to believe?

    Personally I would pay a little more for longer routes, maybe another £10 but more than that I would have to think twice, not all users are necessarily that wealthy.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  40. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    1,698
    Sorry I posted my post at the same time as you.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  41. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    1,082
    I too would have loved the route to go as far as Hastings. Something to consider maybe. Im not up on all the various licences, but a quick google search shows Brighton station operated by Southern, for which DTG have the licence. Hastings however is operated by South Eastern railway. maybe a problem there. On the 66 just being subbed and used as extra stock. I suspect some work will have been done to the loco in terms of functionality and hopefully, sound.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  42. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,862
    If DTG chimed in and answered some of the questions it might assist in this aim!
     
    • Like Like x 9
  43. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    It's not that we're talking unprecedented lengths from Brighton to Seaford and Ore after all, would be roughly the same as RT, NTP or Peninsula. So what was the issue now again?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. Amirakun

    Amirakun New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    17
    The only licensing issues would be with logos at the stations, and the only relevant ones present at St Leonards Warrior Square (which is also operated by Southeastern) and Hastings are on station running in boards and frontage signage. I can't see any legal issues if Dovetail just removed the Southeastern logo from those entirely.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  45. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Station signs would probably have fallen in the same category as the H&W and Bauhaus stores - not adding enough value to the product to require a license.
     
  46. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    253
    Bring it on Dimitri to hell with general election government is totally useless next Thursday is about the lovely release of new Brighton route and all the solitude and magnificent things about the route reflecting on the hard graft DTG has put in over Goodness knows how long to get us to next Thursday
     
    • Like Like x 2
  47. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,862
    The signs don't even have any logos these days:
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
  48. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    253
    Nice sign lovely and bold
     
  49. Amirakun

    Amirakun New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    17
    At Hastings some do and some don't. See this photograph, taken just a couple of months ago. I thought they were debranding all their signs, but they replaced one of the big hanging signs at Hastings with a branded one earlier in the summer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  50. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    253
    This promises to be a exciting route the wonderful class 377/4 which features cruise control programmable destination display (Via the left Mitrac control screen in cab) AWS drivers safety device and given the presence of Mitrac equipment if we lucky maybe the southern next stop announcements on train and a wonder diverse Array of stops it may not extend To London but when you think we are being lucky enough to get the 2 lines in one DLC which is more than we get in GWR to reading plus undoubtedly as well as nice packed timetable I’d imagine some scenarios be included also
     
    • Like Like x 4

Share This Page