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Tsw: Time For A Sprint

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. TrainSim-James

    TrainSim-James Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    State-of-the-art, stylish, and melodic – three ways to describe the DB BR 182, which is coming soon to Train Sim World for “Rapid Transit” S-Bahn services!

    READ MORE
     
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  2. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    Will the PZB/Signalling be updated with the release of this DLC? Whilst this DLC does look good, it would be spoiled by the lack of properly working PZB and signalling on the Rapid Transit route.
     
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  3. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Active Member

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    Yeah - ^ what NorthRail said. this DLC is pointless without improvements to the RT route which is fundamentally broken. no doubting the loco looks great and will drive well, but it seems...lost on current RT.
     
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  4. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    As the others have said above, what's the state of play with PZB? I'm assuming it's still broken as nothing is mentioned in the article and it was stated by Matt Peddlesden that DTG had no intention of fixing it.

    I also notice the locomotive has a destination display like the stock in MSB, will this feature also be added to the Talent 2 in RT? The destination display on the Talent 2 seems to be blank in the screenshots, but I'm hoping that's just because they're WIP.
     
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  5. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Active Member

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    Dmitri just confirmed on discord that there are NO PZB fixes for RT......oh no.
     
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  6. Manclion

    Manclion Active Member

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    No fix for pzb just confirmed on Discord..
     
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  7. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    Certainly won't be buying this on release with no PZB fixes, which is a shame since this looks to be a very good locomotive. I will probably wait until a sale before buying this, though I may not buy this at all now.
     
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  8. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    It's a really nice looking loco, but as others have said, RT is still broken so I'm not sure about this. I won't but it for less than 50% off, that's for sure- hopefully by then something's changed.

    Rapid Transit is broken, DTG. Nobody's gonna buy more stuff for a broken route.
     
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  9. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

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    Indeed as said before, the route itself needs bug fixing to work properly, mostly on the PZB side.
    I think with the case of the 442 destination boards, I think it will be the same as the 143 in MSB, that it isn't back ported (wonder if it will ever be, as it doesn't fit in with the company wide 'Dovetail Flywheel').

    But as it is a loco DLC, it should also be enabled for RSN, MSB and future German routes. To add more variation to the route, as those are much better routes (the last one is the best one yet for Germany).
    The 143 is a nice one for MSB if you have RSN, as it shouldn't be unrealistic to include the 182 in the services as well, then it actually does sell.

    But as it is the case with most of DTG Add-Ons, which take a lot of effort to build, there is hardly any support for that specific DLC after a short while, as seen here once again for the I don't know how many times already.
    This damages the company's reputation in the long run (as it has already as you can see in any community for Train Simulators).
    The standard mention about 'does it get fixed' is 'ask in the forums for an official response', 99% go unanswered.

    Same as with the editor, every time it is mentioned 'by the end of 2018' then to 'early 2019'. It is stuck on the same part for 'cooked' assets.
    One thing this game needs is that the editor is out, then the community's can put in the work that DTG refuses to in the last few releases.

    The so called 'Dovetail Flywheel, -as readable on glassdoor- put out as many DLC possible, as soon as possible when the game is available'.
    There are bug fixes in the weeks after the DLC has been out or part of a large update, but then there is silence only it seems.

    Better communication means more people listening.
    More listening to the community means better reputation.
    Supporting the DLC with bug fixes, back porting, means more sales, which means more profit.
    That is only good for the company, which then can make more content.
    Take for example SCS on the communication, support and bug fixing.

    EDIT:
    This is not meant as rant as such, but more to give an opinion to the company as the some of the community feels.
    I really enjoy the last 2 routes with their content in Train Sim World (NTP and MSB) and many recent releases of DTG for TS19, don't get me wrong!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  10. LTEcactus

    LTEcactus Member

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    Will we be able to use it as a freight loco for RSN and MSB?
     
  11. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Well, Dovetail, here's an idea- you've spent all this time working on diesel locomotive physics in the background, right? That's finishing up, right? Well, why not get to work on Rapid Transit PZB in its place?

    The PZB's in much worse shape than the loco physics were- at least the game was still playable. Here, the PZB's completely broken! Few will buy more things to drive on a broken route.

    EDIT: and while you're at it, try to fix the last Talent 2 scenario. You get stuck and Leipzig Nord (or Messe, I forget) and the game doesn't recognize when you open the doors, so you're stuck.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  12. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The DLC everyone wanted was a diesel to use on the 8km of unelectrified lines on MSB and the yards on RSN. Instead DTG have gone for an electric locomotive for a route which DTG themselves have said is broken and will not be fixed.

    Why expend time and effort on a DLC for the broken RT instead of spending that time and effort fixing RT? It can't be about making money because almost nobody is going to buy this DLC and fixing the PZB would have been a big PR win, not to mention the right thing to do morally.

    Not including an update for the destination displays on the Talent 2 is another fail, because it reinforces the idea that future features will never be brought to existing DLC and that the inconsistencies between DLC will just keep growing. At the beginning DTG gave the impression that new features would be applied retrospectively and that we should buy the DLC to support future development, despite the missing features, as these would be coming later in updates. This has turned out not to be the case.

    In all honesty even if the real BR 182 locomotives rarely travelled on MSB and RSN in reality, this would have been a better DLC if it included scenarios for MSB and RSN instead of RT.

    All the decison making here seems nonsensical. I just don't get it.
     
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  13. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Active Member

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    Will the destination boards work for the original train in rapid transit. Look amazing
     
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  14. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Member

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    This x1000. NTP and MSB just highlighted so many outstanding problems for me, I'm seriously concerned for the TSW franchise, which seems to be regressing into the habits of the TSXX franchise. So many new tools and opportunities, and Dovetail seem unable to properly take advantage of it.

    Lets face fact, the game was not ready to come out as a "beta" product 1-2 years ago, as these inconsistencies grow larger.
     
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  15. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Hi there everyone!

    So hold up, hold up, hold up...
    WHAT!?!? J... j... just... why?

    There is like a bajillion (Okay, four) problems/concerns with this I immediately see:

    1. PZB on RT is not only connected to the Talent 2. Please check my bug report on the complete bug list. The Ks1's are not fixed. The Zs3v's are not working properly and the magnets on Ks2's are inconsistent. Whilst the third might be attributed to bad coding of the Talent 2, the former two bugs said are certainly issues with the route - The same exact route the 182 will be on. This renders the trains on the route basically un-drive-able with the safety systems on.

    2. If we have 182's and Dosto's we ought to have return services in the Dosto. But we know the Dosto, at least the one we currently have, has working PZB. But RT has broken signals. So the Dosto is basically useless too...

    3. The 182's top speed is 230km/h. There are stretches of RT where the max permitted speed is 200km/h > 160km/h. So we will need LZB to reach those speeds. DTG, did you, by any chance, attempt to build the roof of LZB on a foundation of PZB no more stable then a house of cards? If you already went out of your way to make a new LZB, why not wait to release a route with LZB and say the 182 as the high-speed service?

    4. The 182 is almost omnipresent everywhere in Germany. The rails around MSB and RSN certainly do have 182's from time to time. I in person saw them on those rails. Will we have the option to drive services on MSB and RSN with the 182, like we currently have the option to take the 143 on MSB? Could we have 182's generated instead of 143's / 146's by random chance?

    From the last point the question arises: Why RT? or better yet: Why *only* RT? If this is a thing for RT only, I will be hesitant to purchase the add-on, due to the problems outlined above. Let the 182 randomly take some services on MSB/RSN, I'm buyin' it. It shouldn't be an issue either. The set of destination displays is already there. PZB/SiFa is the same on (almost) every route. Just put the train on MSB/RSN. Piece of cake?

    I will not satisfy myself just by stating the problems. I want to help to resolve them. So, if I can in any way possible help in fixing the signalling on RT, be it by giving new bug reports or making other documents, just tell me. I'll be happy to help whenever I can.

    Cheers,
    Prof

    EDIT: I don't agree that MSB or RSN were failures. Although MSB is buggy, the bugs are very minor and in my opinion hardly influence the experience. I personally think that MSB and RSN are both outstanding add-ons and should be taken as an example to work from in the future. I will be giving a detailed review of MSB later this month.

    EDIT 2: Proof that the 182 is present on MSB: https://www.flickr.com/photos/126584084@N05/15988792487/in/photostream/
    This fine gentlemen took their time to fotograph a 182 at Gemünden am Main.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  16. pennine465

    pennine465 Active Member

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    DLC?
     
  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They are making more than one locomotive. The 182 has been in production for a long time.
     
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  18. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    It all boils down to the PZB. If that was working, I'd be fine with this. I'd wait until a sale, but I'd still buy it. As things stand, however... how am I supposed to enjoy this when I didn't enjoy the original, broken gameplay?

    Yep, thankfully. They also mentioned a loco DLC that can be used on both RSN and MSB, so it sounds like a switcher is in the works, and this loco has been referenced in the game files for a very long time as I understand it. Plus the NTP freight DLC.
     
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  19. Manclion

    Manclion Active Member

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    Maybe it's an April fool joke but DTG forgot it's actually March 1st tomorrow.
     
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  20. pennine465

    pennine465 Active Member

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    1 March ?
    For my is 28 feb
     
  21. ASRGT

    ASRGT Active Member

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    I Enjoy RT and am thrilled such a loco is on the way , but come on DTG RT is in the worst shape of any route, the Signaling , PZB..... hell even the catenary are a metallic teal color, a bug DTG introduced with the lighting pass update ! and never corrected. Its a great route that was always lacking variety in rolling-stock however to continue to ignore the issues that make the route utterly useless with safety systems on is beyond a joke .

    Feel its about time DTG formally acknowledge the RT issues and give the community a solid yes or no on if you plan to correct the the core faults with it . I am sure the loco its self will be superb but this DLC is a slap in the face for people who have been waiting patiently since (15th DEC 2017) for an update around RT bugs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  22. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    NEC is in an even worse shape tbh.
     
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  23. Nick Saes

    Nick Saes New Member

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    I was looking forward to this DLC but it is pretty much useless with a substantial fix of the route it self.

    I am really sorry to say this, but DTG should be ashamed of theirselves not devoting rescources to updating existing content!
     
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  24. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Not really- signaling isn't perfect but it works (even got a fix at one point), fun switching opportunities. NEC is better than RT IMO.
     
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  25. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Except that the signaling mostly works.
     
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  26. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Active Member

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    I do agree with then general tone of this thread:
    The BR 182 only for RT, not even for RSN or MSB?
    And that with the state of RT being.. not the best, it really does sound like a nice DLC, but one which can not properly be used.
    So yeah, for me it's waiting until a sale arises with the BR 182
     
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  27. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    If this was accompanied by an overhaul of RT, I would absolutely consider buying it at launch in support. But given it's not, it's hard for me to justify wanting it.

    This is exactly like TS20XX DTG tactics though, and it's incredibly sad to see it hasn't changed...
     
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  28. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    Funny how anybody could even think they were going to fix the signalling and the PZB with this release. Did they fix it before porting RT to consoles? No they didnt, so why would they do it with this release considering it being a way smaller one?

    There needs to be a serious shift at the top of DTG for things to change. Its obvious that the ones at the top dont care about trains and only want their income to increase and thats why their resources are to 95% being used to work on new DLC's rather than fixing old ones or releasing long promised features. Its unfortuante, mainly because the developers are a bunch of talented people who are forced to work under time pressure and with limited resources. Wish someone like Matt would be the owner/leader of DTG.
     
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  29. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Yet another very poor decision by DTG which in no doubt will cost them greatly.

    Who’s clever idea was it to release a loco DLC on a well known route, famous for its broken signalling and safety systems, and to then have no plans to fix it for the foreseeable future.

    Hopefully the editor is just around the corner so we can use this loco on different routes.
     
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  30. Ninetofive925

    Ninetofive925 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, really hope so...
     
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  31. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Active Member

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    Rapid transit is my favorite route. And I don't see how the signals are broken. The loco looks amazing.
     
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  32. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Have you played with PZB on?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  33. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Active Member

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    No I do not.
     
  34. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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  35. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Then that explains it... that's where all the bugs are.
     
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  36. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Active Member

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    Another thing to consider: how much is this DLC going to cost? This is the third time we see the DoStos now, and I really don't want to pay for them a third time, considering I already paid twice for them
     
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  37. Nick Saes

    Nick Saes New Member

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    It is probably 14euros, I highly doubt they will ajust the price for this one.
     
  38. pennine465

    pennine465 Active Member

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  39. Tomas9970

    Tomas9970 Well-Known Member

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    According to pictures, it will come with the RSN version of DoStos.
     
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  40. pennine465

    pennine465 Active Member

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    When is the next sale?!
     
  41. Tomas9970

    Tomas9970 Well-Known Member

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    DTG sales are happening at the same time every year so the next sale should be on the March 23.
     
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  42. pennine465

    pennine465 Active Member

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    To ps4?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  43. xD 2Bad4You

    xD 2Bad4You Well-Known Member

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    The Loco does look nice. But these things need to happen for me to consider a purchase:

    Patch for all RT owners, that includes:
    - PZB / Signaling fixed and working on RSN / MSB level
    - Destination Boards for the Talent 2
    - Fixing the stuck services, there are some that get stuck on reds
    - (If viable, adding Road traffic to the route aswell. Note: I havent played it much so i dont know if there are parts where you actually see the streets. If not forget that point)

    The thing in bold is the most critical deal breaker for me. You cant release a new Loco DLC for a route that has broken Signaling / Safety systems. Those things are the main reason to buy a game like that. To get to know and master, the correctly working, safety systems and trains.
     
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  44. pennine465

    pennine465 Active Member

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    How about add this cool livery?
    upload_2019-2-28_19-5-58.png

    PORSCHE ;)
     
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  45. pennine465

    pennine465 Active Member

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    TrainSim-James When is time to a Sprint :)?
    Coming soon?
     
  46. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    It's been 8 hours since this news has been posted and the thread has grown to a good size with many people asking questions, but as usual DTG themselves are very quiet. The infomation we have had in this thread is secondhand from other sources; Why are DTG neglecting the forum yet again?

    Imagine going into a shop and asking questions about a new product only for the members of staff to just stand there ignoring you. You'd start to wonder if they actually have any interest in trying to sell their product.
     
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  47. Nick Saes

    Nick Saes New Member

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    Don't forget the pantograph going through the overhead wire in the city tunnel and the color of caternary posts!
     
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  48. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    That first bug was fixed IIRC. Second one was not.
     
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  49. pennine465

    pennine465 Active Member

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    Ok!
    When is the Launch day?
     
  50. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    I hope you guys at DTG will do an overhaul to the route, because some assets looks horrible... here are some screenshots of what really need to be fixed, and some things more like pzb and signals of course. I hope you did read the long RT-buglist in this forums!

    Level crossings made by an apprentice 3D artist:
    20190228214501_1.jpg
    20190228214838_1.jpg

    Strange glossy overhead masts:
    20190228215004_1.jpg

    Broken Displays and ballast on tracks that opens like a zipper:
    20190228215023_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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