Tsw Uses Bad Denuvo Drm Technology Affecting Performance

Less stuttering, Is what I would get from it. Like with most games that remove Denuvo.

 

Go and buy Microsoft version, i think that store got same rules like steam about refunds... so buy it, compare it, refund it and then give us report if you got less stuttering because when i tested Microsoft version, Epic version (the one without Denuvo) and Steam version then all of them were the same - use the same drive, use the same DLCs (so basically use just core versions without any DLCs if you dont want to spend extra money on Microsoft store for DLCs), and dont use any ini tweaks.
Everybody can read how is Denuvo bad, yes it can have some impacts on the games, but prove it that it got impact on TSW. Blaming DTG that they are using Denuvo because some devs got problems with it without any prove that there is impact on TSW is not really good way how to do it

 

1+anything is never going to result in a 1. It might be 1.01 but there is still an increase. This means that whatever the DRM is doing, it can never have a non-existent perofrmance impact.

As for us having an agenda, the game is fighting performance issues since day 1 (or at least since TSW 2020). There have been various cut-downs to try and manage that and other times we were just told to shut up and deal with it as it's a core engine issue and whatnot. With that in mind, of course we are going to try and go after something that gives us no tangible benefit (because we bought the game) and that is widely known to cause performance issues or even the very kind of issues we are experiencing.

TLDR: If the game was running smoothly, we most likely wouldn't be having this conversation.

btw. About official answers on game issues, my favourite answer was the one talking about foliage pop-in, which said that the reason we don't see it in other games is because trains in TSW are moving so much quicker than any other game character. Meanwhile the pop-in is very noticable even at running speed.

 

Well said, my man.

 

And again, another raving of grown men about how bad piracy is and how much profit poor developers are losing.... And you just make high-quality content at an affordable price, without bugs, and people will be happy to give you money themselves. And so...the ground is concrete for you then.

 

Unfortunately, there's the crucial issue with many DRM implementations, they almost always alter the balance of user experience such that only paying customers experience the detrimental effect.

One of the reasons DRM-free GoG releases work so well for the full gamut from small indie games to big name AAA titles like CP77. You eat the piracy that's gonna happen anyway, and the smaller amount that DRM would have discouraged by making it annoying to circumvent, as a tradeoff for more customer goodwill and better sales that way.

 

It's been proven time and time again that piracy barely results in lost sales. It's why Invasive DRM is such an own goal. The people that tend to pirate weren't going to buy it to begin with. Either due to financial, or other reasons. It's extremely rare that people pirate when they can afford something and want it.

 

I can think of an exception to that - I know a bunch of folks on tight budgets who will pick up a pirate copy of a game that has no demo as a "try before you buy" thing. If they bounce off it, the game wasn't for them and they'd have wasted their money, it gets uninstalled. If they like it, they buy it, and get the benefit of stuff like ongoing patch support, etc.

But yeah, just look at the sheer amount of money people will drop into hugely exploitative business models regardless of how far their budgets actually extend, and you'll see that on the whole, people are fine paying for things they want.

 

I don't know if you've been keeping an eye on this thread since both of your last posts on here but I thought I'd give my thoughts on the situation beyond the broken copy protection for DLC.

I'd like to start by saying that just because a game is cracked doesn't mean that it will begin a domino effect of lost dales - the days of mass game piracy are long gone. TSW3 may have been cracked, the games before it as well maybe, and possibly TSW4 too, but a crack is only useful to those who know how to use them and find them, and to someone who does not mind the disadvantages. Let's say TSW4 has been cracked. I don't know where to find it, and neither do most people. TSW is also updated frequently, but updating cracked games are a hassle. When it comes to DLC, these are where most of your income lies for TSW, even if you've put up the prices of the base game to make more money. It's ironic then that the copy protection for DLC which works fine in TS does not work in TSW, as I described earlier when talking about the refund method.

Then of course there's the point to make that TSW is a niche game and therefore there is little demand for a cracked version anyway. Some developers can see millions in lost sales because of piracy (sometimes getting close to ten figure values) - DTG is not one of them. Call of Duty Black Ops reportedly had 4.2 million illegal downloads, undoubtedly far more than the entire TSW 'franchise' combined. Therefore, even if there is no 'actual evidence' that Denuvo is causing performance in TSW, I'm not convinced there's much of an advantage to DTG of using it anyway. Since DTG has not provided any numbers for TSW piracy none of us have any idea if the 'unfortunate necessity' JD has told us about is actually real. There might be a serious problem for all I know, but I haven't seen any evidence of it.

 

Well I have buyed TSW2 on Epic Games and then with Humble Bundle I switched to Steam without my TSW2 Routes. I moved the TSW2 Routes in my TSW3 folder and tadaa it worked. Since TSW4 it doesn't anymore. The .pak files are there but nothing appears in game. So apparently the DLC copy issue is resolved ? At least in my case... (Dang it Köln-Aachen I miss you)

 

Yeah this is not effective at all..... For PC there are so many simple files that can let steam think it's in you're library and works fine. And no I make no advertising for illegal things.

 

I haven't tested it in TSW4 for obvious reasons but it still works in TSW2 and 3, probably 2020 as well. As for specific DLC when I refunded the Class 37 and IOW2022 it did it, although in the case of the former I later rebought it on sale. I did not test IOW2022 as it never worked for me even when I owned it.

 

They forgot to add Denuvo to the Train Sim World 3 release for the epic games store back then. Performance was way better and there were basically no micro stutters left when comparing the epic store version with the steam version. Tbh was surprised nobody else talked about it back then. Guess nobody else thought about comparing those two versions:p

 

Well i dont think so man DLCs from TSW 2 are not working for sure with TSW 3 because they did some shader changes. So try different story. They will work only if you have TSW 3 on Epic and you move them to the Steam, but it needs to be TSW 3 version of the DLC.

You will be surprised, i wrote that many times that i tested TSW 2 from Epic and Steam, and same goes for TSW 3, there i even test that Microsoft Store version to compare with Epic and Steam because in that time gamepass was only for $1 for a whole month. And there was no difference, at least on my HW. Important is to test both versions without any DLCs, mods and ini tweaks exept the DLCs which were included with Core game.

 

Yup I had buy TSW3 on Epic and then switched to Steam forgot to say that...

 

Better not to update, as they solve 1 problem and create 10 problems, the company is now known as Bug Games.

 

I may have once when ranting about an issue with a route, had a friend mishear them as "Bug Tale Games".

 

Dear Matt,

I just stumbled on this information and didn't know or realize the fact until now.

I have the highest respect for your work and your very open communication in general and in your streams, which I love to watch. I am sad that this wasn't brought up more prominently and I missed it.

I do hate Denuvo with a passion. And while I do understand where you are coming from, I firmly believe that while including it certainly does lower the number of illegal copies, I don't think it has much effect on sales. But what do I know. I am way too deep into the best Train Simulator in existence to vote with my wallet.
I can however report that TSW4 runs not perfectly, but quite a bit better than TSW3, and for me your hard work in this regard paid off.

Only real gripe I have now: Isn't there a EU law or rule or something that when you use DRM like this you have to mention it on, in my case, the Steam store page somewhere, very visibly?

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/denuvo-drm-protection.77161/#post-768805

 

While taking onboard DTG's legitimate interest in fighting piracy, there are much better/less obnoxious/less performance-killing DRM systems than Denuvo.

 

They have not understood what Steam's boss tried to explain.

Implementing such software will actually drive people into using cracked versions, understandably. As they are better.

 

While I understand this is off-topic and very much un-related as of now when talking about DRM and gaming, it would seem that it's becoming a much bigger issue, I'm taking these videos at face value, the one reason I am posting these videos is that I did run into an issue last night with my TV and my Cable box, I/we also use a capture card to record from the Xbox 1X, so far all is okay for now, but this begs the question? For How Long?
While these are all very different from each other from gaming, to trains, to TVs. Did all these DRM and piracy get a foothold with gaming, and it's just a let's see how far can DRM put into everyday lives, and gaming was the test bed? YES, I know I sound like a tinfoil hat crazy ole Geezer, but am I?

 

The right to repair movement has been fighting the encroachment of efforts to limit the ability to repair hardware of all types for a long time now. It certainly got worse once unethical industries discovered they could just make everything reliant on software which could then be used to lock off basic functionality, so they could sell you heated seats or working brakes for your car as DLC, but a lot of it predates the games industry.

 

Very much of this is new to me still with the DRM, the last time I really played any PC games goes back to Win98 to WinXp to Win7 and so much time has passed that real life stepped in, I played games on XB here, and there but that was it and didn't have time to think about The right to repair nor did I have a decent PC. It's only been the past 3-years? now that I have gotten more interested and paying more attention, as more and more Louis Rossmann YT vids have been popping up in my YT feed on my Cell. I appreciate the reply with this info.

 

TBH it come down to the simple fact is pirates are gona pirate no matter what you charge for your product, most pirate will do it either on principal to punish a publisher or they just think there special and don't need to pay for stuff, there are few pirates who do it for monetary reasons, that saying its a fine line publishers have to tread, they have to secure there IP without p**sing of to much of there customer base, theres an old saying that some it up better than i can: You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
As for a fix to this problem with invasive DRM in todays software, well DRM companies gota make money to, so of course there going to hard sell there software to publishers and down sell the issues it can cause, do you honestly think CEOs of big publisher companies peruse gaming forums for info, or rely on flashy bullet pointed demos at there HQs given by suited eloquent individuals.
Sorry mini rant LOL
Take Care
Gary

 

I will not buy that buy that for a Dollar.
A DTG product and there are many more that don't use Denuvo Link in OP

 

Denuvo has just been removed. What changed?

 

Afaik only from TSW4, not from TSW5. Nothing changed. It costs licensing fees, and it makes no financial sense to keep paying them for the last entry.

 

But TSW 5 dont have Denuvo since release because why they will add denuvo to the free core game as it was free till January 2025 ? So if you have still the same problems with TSW 5 like with other version then Denuvo wasnt the problem...