1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tsw2 - Clinchfield Railroad - Building The F7

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG JD, Mar 5, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    In real life, Clinchfield used A-A, A-B, A-B-A, A-B-B, A-B-B-A. and A-B-B-B. Not more that that, because they only had three B units!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    794
    If you think Clinchfield has only 3 B-Units in the roster, then clearly you didn't research further enough (unless you mistyped, which it doesn't look like it).
    CRR has a roster of:
    F3/5s: 6-As and 3-Bs (before rebuilt into F7s)
    F7s 15-As (Plus 3 from L&N) and 11-Bs (Plus 2 ex-L&N)
    and only 5 F9Bs and 1 FP7A
    And it wouldn't matter if Dovetail made the F7 formations accurate or not. As long it has enough power to get a full train moving, I'll be fine with it.

    Plus there is an A-B-B-A formation on Clinchfield:
    showimage.jpg [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
    • Like Like x 7
  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    Ouch! My mistake. I only looked at the F3 roster.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    794
    No worries, almost every F-Units looks identical from one to another. Hard to track which is which sometimes.
    On that side note, however; would be lovely to have some loco formation combinations on trains like Sandpatch does. But with both the SD40s and F7s (and future locos).
    showimage (1).jpg
    showimage (3).jpg
    Probably not for the Day 1 release, but (maybe, hopefully) somewhere down the line in the near future.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
    • Like Like x 8
  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    Clinchfield NEEDS a GP7 high-nose followup DLC.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    For this route I am ready to buy a new loco as well as additional scenarios if they are done right.
    A GP7 or a SW7 would also be a big plus.

    I really hope to be able to drive everywhere on the road, several small pieces of roads are modeled with the small deposits and other "distributor of coals".
    There will be so much to do on this road.

    For training I would also like to have a "mixed" loco.

    Pity DTG a "dummy" radio where you could hear the staff talking would be super cool, like in TS's Sherman Hill locomotives for the atmosphere please ....

    I can't wait for this line more and more than for the Arosa.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,321
    Likes Received:
    5,263
    Do we really need a 2nd chapter of Foreman Dan Hernandez?
     
    • Like Like x 8
  8. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    Foreman Dan Hernandez gives me a strange nostalgia in its own sense. I wonder who he is how he is getting along these days. The mystery of the Foreman Dan Hernandez remains. I think it would be a good bit to add him back into TSW2, even if only for a small gag.

    Cheers
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    Yeah, him or somebody else it doesn't matter as long as we have the radio
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    3,986
    Combinations of F7s with other locomotives definitely need to be a thing. Maybe just a couple of trains, so it's rare enough, but it should be there.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,535
    Likes Received:
    2,722
    The bursts of radio chatter on SPG are a little annoying, because they're unintelligible. Some understandable chatter, no matter how brief, might be atmospheric.

    I agree. Something other than F7 A-B-B-A would definitely improve services. It's important that we get additional loco(s) as soon as possible. The SPG model should be copied. We also need a variety of rolling stock, not just 70 or 100t coal hoppers.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    The announcement image shows a pair of F7s coupled in an A-A setup. This might mean DTG could make this route a bit different from the TS version and also bring us different setups of the F7 instead of just A-B-B-A setups.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,535
    Likes Received:
    2,722
    Very perceptive of you. I hadn't noticed that.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    960
    Interestingly enough, I like the SPG radio chatter because it is unintelligible.

    In Train Simulator, I wound up turning the radio chatter off on several locomotives. While it was enjoyable for about an hour, it got a little bit annoying when the same messages repeated themselves over and over.

    Having it unintelligible it’s just enough to remind me that a radio is on, but not distract me.
     
    • Like Like x 12
  15. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    The good thing about TSW2 is that there is a button for the radio on "SPG" so if DTG makes it functional I will have the radio and you will have peace of mind.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    699
    Is Chlinchfield freight only?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,321
    Likes Received:
    5,263
    Yes, the era that this is set in is the late 70s to early 80's. By that time most American Railroads had already turned their passenger services over to Amtrak.

    However I don't think the Clinchfield ran any passenger trains in recent years even before 1971, they are mainly a coal hauling railroad.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,892
    Likes Received:
    3,199
    About formations. 4:08 :D

     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    I dont believe Clinchfield ever had passenger service
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,535
    Likes Received:
    2,722
    No, the original purpose of building the railroad was to exploit the Virginia coalfields and to transport the coal to South Carolina, Georgia and Florida where it could be loaded onto coastal and other shipping. Later, other products were added, but passengers were never in its plans. It would have been a strange route to take to that part of the South.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. met_cui98

    met_cui98 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2019
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    39
    Clinchfield had passenger service until 1955. From the timetables I found online, it looks like they never had more than two trains in each direction each day on the main line.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    The other, very profitable, side of Clinchfield's operation was as a link railroad for through freight between the ACL at Spartanburg and the C&O at Elkhorn. It was the most direct route from Florida to the Midwest (hence the "Citrus Express").
     
    • Like Like x 2
  23. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    I’ve never heard of clinchfield having passenger services, but if they ever did they probably quit them before the era represented in the route, which is all freight.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,535
    Likes Received:
    2,722
    I'll delve into my library when I get a chance and do some more research on this subject.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,321
    Likes Received:
    5,263
    • Like Like x 3
  26. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    So the clinchfield did have passenger trains. The era represented in the route is way after the clinchfield had them I think, so we definitely won’t be getting them, just freight. Anyways only diesel locomotives are in the route, but that may change once DTG gets the hang of steam for TSW...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Yep, the Clinchfield article mentions the Florida Perishable express train. I believe it was the only unit train besides the coal drags. I don't know what the frequency of these trains were, but they were given the highest priority on the line. It would be nice to have this train represented in the timetable services
     
    • Like Like x 3
  28. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    It could be represented in the route at launch, or it might be included in a special loco dlc for the route, which might add additional services including this “Florida Perishable” unit train.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    Just a speculation: DTG might not want to do just one dlc, but two loco add ons for the clinchfield. Or a third party can make additional content for the route, but this leaves the devs with an option to add another mainline loco and a switcher, such as a high nose GP7 and GE U36C.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    566
    Well, to be fair, "it won't be in at launch/it will be added later" is a common trend with DTG recently.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  31. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    1,179
    Research is light? Buy an emd f7 manual they cost like 10 to 15 dollars and are easy to come by lol! On a side note I was able to drive one of these in real life, super fun!

    For livery designer it will kill it for me if we are stuck with set formations of AB or ABA because many railroads I'd want to paint didn't use B units. So hopefully it gives us some freedom to choose.

    It'd be cool if when they make remakes they'd improve on them instead of cutting out a bunch of stuff and hiding it behind a dlc paywall. Why not give us a GP7 and a F7? We don't need the repetition with the SD40 which aside from some electronic differences is the same as what we already have. It's just sad to see them continuing to give us remakes with less content and more added expenses. They know my thoughts on these matters though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,321
    Likes Received:
    5,263
    For one its more than just electrical differences between an SD40 and a SD40-2. The standard SD40 is shorter and was built on different trucks than a SD40-2. Also it make more sense to give us 1 4 axle loco and 1 six axle loco rather than 2 4 axle locos. The SD40 was also Clinchfields only 6 axle loco that wore both the older Grey and Yellow and the Black scheme. (The SD45-2 and the U36C only came in the black paint, and the SD45 came in modified SCL colors.)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    Almost no two F7s were alike.. Not only did EMD change them year by year, but each RR ordered them with custom specifications. And then further modified them in their own shops. An Amtrak manual would not be a research resource for a Clinchfield F7- or at least not a very good one.

    Far better to start with CRR No 800, which exists and runs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Rutger Luiten

    Rutger Luiten Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    69
    • Like Like x 1
  35. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    794
    6 F3As actually (from an actual roster). And some of the F3s were upgraded to F7s later on in their career (which makes a perfect fitting for this route). Oddly enough, 800 is still currently classified as an F7. Not sure why (since it was restored to its original condition), but that's what I saw in some descriptions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    So, again, there is huge variety among F7s (EMD rebuilt a lot of earlier E and F units to -7s)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  37. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    I could see that happening. Probably with a U36C road locomotive, over a GP7 switcher.

    I don't know if anyone noticed in today's TSW2 update, but MU pin 19 was made functional. This pin is not used much in modern day, but was used in the time period CRR is set. So it looks like CRR is getting closer to release.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  38. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    Which means there is a possibility for a loco dlc in the near future! I don’t think DTG would totally abandon the route, so they should make at least one add on for it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  39. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    As Matt commented in the Bakerloo stream, if they are going to do all the research required to add an additional country, like France or the Netherlands or Australia, they intend to keep using that country to 'pay off' the investment in research. Well, the past is another country, they say......
     
    • Like Like x 1
  40. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,535
    Likes Received:
    2,722
    On yesterday's stream, it was mentioned that Clinchfield had run into a hiccup or two. Apparently, it was sent back to make some last minute corrections. Whether this was related to scenery or the locomotives was not made clear or if it caused any delay to the proposed launch date.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    I wouldn't panic- the whole point of the QA/beta process is to find glitches so they're fixed before release. You know, like so many people yell at DTG about.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    I think on balance it is more likely that DLC engines will be a GP7 and/or SW7 or NW2. DTG have no database on pre Dash-8 GE engines; it would be a research as big as the F7. And not totally worth it, to provide a second 6-axle road engine on top of the SD40, and one which Clinchfield didn't even own that long (they didn't like the U-boats, and traded them to SCL for SD45s after just a few years).

    In short, if they do Florida Perishable it would likely be SD40-hauled, or perhaps F7 at player option
     
    • Like Like x 1
  43. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,321
    Likes Received:
    5,263
    They have some info on a GE U36C from their DLC they did for TS2021.
    4054bdcfbf91086d0ac0b8e65e0697c0.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    6,478
    Fair enough- but building a model for TS doesn't require nearly as much detailed info.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  45. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    The first screenshots for the clinchfield are out today, and boy do those locos look amazing in TSW.:love:
     
    • Like Like x 3
  46. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2021
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    112
    I'm really excited about the Clinchfield route, I really hope the sound design is on point especially with the F7 they have such a unique sound. The Nathan M5 horn is a very musical horn and I'm hoping that they have a good version of it. I love the Sand Patch route and really the only thing that pulls me out of it is the awful horn sound files, and the fact that the engine sound for the GE locomotives is way off the mark. In real life it is much more of a low chugging rumble, to the point you can feel it in your chest. The sound models are very turbocharger heavy, to the point that you hear the turbocharger more than anything else. The Dash 8 is a little better than the AC4400, but without banking comm functionality it can be difficult to operate at times. The engine sounds from the EMD locomotives are on point though. It's really is mainly the US and Canadian freight locomotive air horn sounds that are lacking.

    As to some folks talking about the engine room, it would be cool but to be honest most railroads in the USA at least in the past, seem to leave most of their locomotives perpetually idling. I can remember being a kid and driving by engine terminals especially during winter months and it would seem most locomotives were never shut down. They would just leave them all idling between uses.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
    • Like Like x 4
  47. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2021
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    112
    They ran a Santa train that CSX continues to operate to this day. Although it was canceled due to COVID this past year. In the 90s they had UP Challenger 3985 visit in Clinchfield livery to pull the Santa train.

    http://trainweb.org/vrt/CSXSantaTrain/

     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  48. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Those photos were great in today's article. Although I noticed there are auto start/shutdown buttons on the back wall of the F7. So yet again no accessible engine room.

    I would assume then that there is no manual startup for the SD40s. But they probably could've copied the modelled engine room form the SD40-2 in SPG as the standard SD40 and the -2 variant used the same diesel engine.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  49. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    960
    I totally agree with this. The route and the locos look fantastic, but the engine and horn sounds will make or break Clinchfield in TSW2 for me. I hope for more than a repeat of SPG sounds or the Clinchfield sounds in TS.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  50. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    2,231
    I always load up RailroadRadio.net and get a live stream from whatever region is near where I am running in TS Classic and as well for the US routes in TSW2. Live radio chatter plus defect sensors add a real big touch of realism, especially on those slogs up Sand Patch

    http://www.railroadradio.net/
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1

Share This Page