All of which were on a route-specific basis and so could have been added to TSW2... You're forgetting a very important reason: money.
well I rather see them patched without buying the game again. but a big update to fix all promised features. including a changed UI I'd say is easier released as a "new game" than an update. Of course buying TSW5 to get the features promised in TSW4 is complete bullshit and before even tinking of developing TSW5 they should deliver on their promises first.
I also think that the majority of players don't want a new TSW every year. After all, new core features are also being introduced that are already standard in TSC, such as the Formation Designer. CC and LD are actually no longer in beta, but it's true that the UI is constantly being tinkered with, which can mess up the workflow every time. Unfortunately there is no magic button that makes everything perfect all of a sudden, so bug fixing remains part of the work of the dev teams. Of course, some patches take longer because some bugs can be more difficult than others and then a collective patch is made instead of too many smaller ones. If there is a future change to UE5, features like CC or LD should continue to work because only textures or program sequences are loaded. I also see less effort when it comes to rolling stock, as textures, materials, meshes and physics programming should be able to be adopted 1:1. As long as this change is still too complex for complete routes, it is better to stay with 4.26 for the moment. But if it has a long-term positive effect on TSW routes in terms of performance, shadow drawing distance or LODs, it could be worth making the transformation to UE5. Of course, experimenting is allowed at any time. But in the end it always comes down to optimization, because even the latest engine can't work miracles...
TSW5 would be a welcome edition, but I doubt we’ll see this year. DTG will most likely focus on dlc and third party support for TSW4.
third party and previous dlc support has been here since TSW2? if TSW5 comes I'd rather see some new functions instead of promises that the old announced features will be included. I'd love to spend 60 euro's on 3 routes, some loco dlc and a base game upgrade. but I think it's better to wait a year or more. Roadmap is getting quiet after all the releases so I'm looking forward to new announcements.
if it finally included functioning Ebula (and maybe even its UK/US counterparts, digital or "paper"), I would just be like shut up and take my money
I would love that. just like announcements I think it's something they are looking into but there's nothing set in stone yet.
dont remember if it was Skyhook or what publisher/developer, but I remember that for 4744 DLC for TSC, they included an annoucement audio pack... which, if you then played a Vienna DLC, and selected train number for some local service there, it announced the stations (you had to manually download the pack from their site and copy it to a specific folder) but yeah, Ebula/Fahrplan, and possibly a tutorial or at least a manual on how to read those
yeah I got a discontinued app for a few routes to use ebula and it's very useful for routes you don't know well or braking in advance for speed reductions with heavy freight. I am holding off on TSC because most routes are now coming to TSW anyways and I miss the ease of timetable mode there. I'll be in vienna next week though.
TSC now has a lot of nice Vienna content, but as I have already mentioned a couple times on this forum, I just cant function properly with its UI and poor FPS performance (my machine handles TSW just fine) I use the minimal HUD / route minimap as Ebula for now nice enjoy your time there, great city... and a nice, compact paradise for fans of railways, both in terms of trains and infrastructure (they are gradually installing ETCS on the whole Stammstrecke till 2026/2027, now they are going to expand platforms at Handelskai to almost double the length, making it suitable even for IC trains to make a stop there; and S80 corridor up to Meidling will get rid of level crossings and thus increase its speed and frequency also) anyways, should you need tips on places to visit or railway/transport related stuff to see, let me know I travel to Vienna like 1-2 times a week, now third year
same. and remembering the route also helps. cheers. I heard about the changes and I've taken some nice pics there already. might throw them into offtopic some day. the straight line from Süssenbrunn towards the border is very pretty on a newyears winter morning.
they have almost finished the Schonfeld Lassee route towards Marchegg (it is electrified for at least one track now and they are almost done with the second track and sidings at certain stations) and recently they have started upgrading also the Sussenbrunn - Ganserndorf line to Marchegg (removing level crossings also)... super impressive and nice, once both are done they should be like 160 or 200 kmh eligible and almost a month ago, PORR has started works on Devinska Nova Ves to state border section... they will be renovating tracks, some of the station at Devinska Nova Ves, repairing switches, the old steel bridge over Morava river and most of all, electrifying it finally... so REX8 from Bratislava will finally be electric also... it will most probably be a Taurus push pull consist, the question is, what coaches and control cab will they couple it to (since it is a joint service of ZSSK and OBB, I hope ZSSK wont put those sh.tty 120 kmh coaches into the consist; the upgrade on our side and Austrian side is supposed to cut the travel time from like approx. 70mins to around 40-45 ) would love to drive BA-Marchegg-Vienna / BA-Kittsee-Vienna or Wolfsthal-VIE airport-Vienna route in TSW one day... any quality Vienna content would do
I'd love to see the entirety of vienna in TSW one day. I expect the first bit we'll get being either from Wien HBF towards St. Pölten/Linz or from Wien Meidling to Gänserndorf over Florisdorf (and hopefully a second line over Stadlau for freight so you can go to Hbf on both sides). I looked it up once and the history of railways in vienna itself is pretty interesting. I'd love to see more routes with a modern and historical timetable where possible because tracks change. would be a cool project for dovetail as a base route like SEHS to extend and add more rolling stock to over time. here are a few pics I took. the night one being at meidling.
maybe simpliest would be to do S45+S80, would use least resources and get some nice chunk of the city into the game... or Stammstrecke + one of corridors... St. Polten or Wiener Neustadt corridors would rule... like old Westbahn route + the highspeed one + Tullnerfeld... ah, nice dreams
The only reason that TSW4 came about was that minor details had to be completly re-drawn DTG did mention this in a pod-cast some-time ago prior to the release of TSW4. Can,t see them making TSW5 for sometime unless they have plans to drop Support for the last-gen Consoles ( eg PS4 X-BOX ONE) & make TSW5 with next gen only hard-ware?
I avoid these forums for these very reasons. Toxic base here that thinks if you don't have a high post count, you are inferior somehow. I got dumped on for posting about the leaked release date of TSW4 here. I know nothing... So while there's no leak yet of TSW5 coming, nothing surprises me with DTG.
Not aware of anything on the horizon. Old stuff is getting harder to sell to the younger the player base is, and the harder it is to move.
One of the selling points of a simulation is being able to do things you CANNOT experience in real life, as well as those you can. It's much easier to go out and train and become a real train driver and experience driving passenger services in a modern EMU than it is to do so and end up driving steam locos up and down the country, for example. Or diesel freight services out of steelworks which no longer exist.
Plenty games work on a business model of free core updates and paid DLC expansions, and many of those charge less for their addons than TSW does, so it's not really making an argument for DTG to work "for free", is it? Honestly it might make people a little less cynical and prone to waiting for the inevitable £5 sale a few months before the next version releases, as many of us are now.
For me personal a gamplaypack like earlier Rush hour is more my favor! Not every year a new game please! I have no problems to pay for new content but paying for updates every year is a bridge to far!
Paying twice for updates and dlcs is in my opinion not fair indeed! And the argument that DTG isnt work for free is a little to simple to re-bounce the discussion i think
Regardless of real world status of steam, this is a game selling itself as the "Ultimate" train simulator. If DTG truly wish for TSW to actually meet that title (which it doesn't right now), it needs to be covering content from all variety of eras, countries, traction types, etc. Otherwise their game is a simulator covering a specific niche, which in DTG's cases is mostly modern EMU commuter type routes. Right now, I'd say TS Classic is closer to being the Ultimate simulator because it covers a lot of bases, while also being proof that there is a market for steam locomotive content if the quality is there! I can only speak for myself, but I won't stop talking about steam because it's a hugely important part of railway history that shouldn't be ignored. Not everyone's going to be into historical content, that's fine. Same works vice versa. Personally, I find enjoyment driving anything in game but I do steer more towards the historical content as I find them more engaging to drive, especially the BR Class 101! But I'm certainly up for a spin in the 395 along HS1 or a bit of commuter work in Birmingham with the 323. A thing I notice with some users on the forums is that they take it to heart when we suggest a bit more variety in the era that content is made in. Not just steam either, BR diesel is under represented in route variety. If it weren't for JT and the amazing Blackpool Branches, we'd still be hungry for a new BR Blue route! I'm hoping JT stays in the BR era for as long as possible, it's a gap that needs filling in the content line-up and will ensure any BR routes that release are of highest quality because it's JT Nobody is asking for steam content or diesel content to replace modern content. Personally, I just want a healthy balance of route era. That goes for German and American content as well, not just British. I thoroughly enjoy playing Clinchfield and Linke Rhienstrecke, would love to see more content in a similar era!
I feel the ‘World’ more refers to the fact we can interact more with the map instead of being limited to the cab and pax view
Because others do however does not make it a prerogative another should.... It's a whole can of worms then what one person considers a core update and another doesn't. It'd likely end up in more.stuff being "non core" to fund it, negating the practice and generating the feedback or " why is this no longer core"... I don't get the mentality of one company should.copy another. I think digging below the surface the product people would really like for free is the one they use and enjoy most (in many instance) and the one these comments get modelled against gets used less Call me a capitalist
I don't think it's too hard to understand- Scenery improvements, reworked timetables and added layers for existing rolling stock are free New trains, new tracks and things like reworked signaling (because that has to be done from scratch) cost money.
Who pays that Dev time then? Surely scenery improvements need new assets, placing, baking etc? It would be interesting how many hours the community expect Joe to work for free at DTG if there is no revenue associated with his work. He becomes a cost then right? Or are we saying that whoever does all these things for free updates that their time is less valuable, less worthy of being paid for by the community....? New trains, new tracks and things like reworked signaling (because that has to be done from scratch) cost money. - Agree I still find the logic tricky. If someone felt the work for a community, or within my sector had no commercial value, I'd say "pay peanuts, get monkeys" Out of curiosity, work for free for me sometime?
People are fine with paying money for new routes and trains. What they are not fine with is paying money for a few features that apply to all routes and the ability to buy new content and receive patches for existing content.
Those few features have still been developed though , that would be my understanding. Someone has traded their time for money as an employee, which needs recouping in some guise, and the commercial model is what it currently is what we see.. We have to consider too, (i speculate) there's likely no real obligation to upgrade beyond a point DTG deem it playable, irrespective of 100 page posts on here. When it is no longer revenue generating I guess the focus shifts. It's a small window. I think with these few features thing, that's always subjective. Some people wont want TOD4 lighting, some people wont want formation designer, or the camera mode. They do however form part of newly developed features, so again there's a cost in there somewhere. Somewhere along the line the software will also be engineered to a point whereby unless you have version XXX then certain features or support won't be continued. I have a samsung tablet that as its's lasted well, I can now no longer receive upgrades for any programmes as it's software is no longer compatible. Its similar isn't it. I have a choice though, get on samsung forums and state my case, upgrade, use what i have and observe the newer tech until a point arrives where I pull the trigger on it. Or, I jump ship and buy an Ipad with a different upgrade structure... The crux, I guess. There will be a group, some around a lot longer than me, some around on games with different upgrade structures that feel there is an element of hard done by, mistreated (Insert feeling here) .There will also be a group that go out each year, happy to buy fifa for a kit upgrade they wont get on last years game and wont touch a new design your own player feature. Neither is right or wrong, i'm merely conveying I find the expectation that talented people should trade their time for free. That said my fellow keyboard entrepreneurs, for those far more skilled than me there is the opportunity to work your magic in the editor for hundreds of hours and share all your new routes for free I guess.
The only way there can be much more content from elsewhere and variety is to first get a license and for more 3rd parties to get involved. You also have to consider if they can access the reference material in order to create an authentic experience. Dtg can't do everything by themselves
The big issue is that once people are required to pay for continued support for fixing the bugs and incomplete features they already paid up front for going forwards, the game is essentially on a subscription model whether the publisher admit it or not.
That is exactly why it’s called Train Sim World but I’m just saying in terms of variety of content, Train Sim Classic is closer to meeting the “Ultimate Train Simulator” tag that DTG advertise TSW to be. TSW seems to be going in the opposite direction by cutting off variety like steam, US freight, lack of modern diesel power, etc. It feels like it’s slowly turning into a niche sim that focuses specifically on modern electrics, which for me personally is not a good sign for the future of the game. I’m just glad JT came along and gave us a much needed BR diesel route. The variety of the content was a key selling point of this game for me, my hype maxed out when steam locomotives were on their way with Spirit of Steam but DTG really dropped the ball with that. Then they left steam in a mess that not even third parties don’t seem to want to touch and who can blame them? There just doesn’t seem to be much to look forward to with the game right now.
This is based on the wrong assumption that the customer pays the devs salary directly. That's not how it works. A dev can work and get his salary from his company and the product can still be released for free. Otherwise it would be a good incentive for releasing broken addons plus game breaking patches to let the customer pay for fixing - it takes paid manhours in any case, whether you're producing or remanufacturing / bugfixing... If DTG put a little more effort into testing before release, they wouldn't have to WASTE so much time on bugtracking and fixing afterwards.
Oh gods, did you see that horrendous idea from the former head of Blizzard suggesting normalising the idea of game development moving to the US service sector's model of tipping, where devs are paid out of voluntary gratuities by the players of games, rather than primarily out of, y'know, ACTUAL SALARIES FROM THEIR EMPLOYERS?
Nonetheless, from the studio's point of view, every project has a budget, and developer time is budgeted just like everything else (in fact it's the primary cost). It's no different from a widget factory including labor costs in the budgeting of widget production.
Great suggestion, have you put it in suggestion forum. I'd envisage they'll be expedited further. Good shout and well within forum boundaries I'm not sure what implication more testing, more outsourcing of testing would have on patches and route cost though. Who would pay £40-50 for less routes, less choice in their region, to fund even larger qa teams, yet still be further upset that at their self created higher price point something still creeps through. Imagine the cycle you create then. £70 game bug free. Opportunity for a pointless poll there Gta 5 would be a good example of a huge bug free game, or snow runner, or cyberpunk. They have shed loads of testers and release bug free so why can't this, oh wait .?.. they have bugs too. I'm sure I'm being partially pedantic but I don't personally believe any Dev, or any of you reading should work for free, but I do think we should reflect that things could be far more expensive, far worse
The way I view it are that patches/bugfixes are what they say they are on the tin (they correct something that has been done wrong/making the content unusable) and so shouldn't have to be paid for. Any new content/features (including routes and things like Formation designer or CC) add new things to the game and so I am happy to pay for these and understand why these are charged for. Route remasters are strange as they are a funny mixture of new content and patches, however the key reason they are not paid for are because they are passion projects done by devs in their own time and so I think it acts as a good gesture to offer these improvements for nowt. Frankly I am not going to complain either as the Mrs isn't best pleased about my purchasing habits recently! Before anyone turns their pitchfork on me just be clear that I am not aiming this post at anyone specifically and is just me reading what has been said and typing the ramblings that went through my head in some sort of comprehensible sentence!
Nobody here has been advocating that devs should work for free though. It’s not like a dev wouldn't get paid if there was a free core update for tsw for instance. It's the obligation of the company to pay their employees salaries and not the customer. Also I don't see how this game can be more expensive than it already is.
Except that some new features like formation designer, editor and suspension physics were supposedly included with the launch of TSW4 were they not? The fact that they are still not operational doesn't mean that we should pay for them again sometime in the future, if they come as part of TSW5, for instance. Some things , like LIRR2 and BR101Xpert we should pay for and some things not. We have to be careful.
I think everyone's definition of ultimate train simulator is different. You decide what you think it is. TSC most definitely is not my idea of an ultimate train simulator. For that matter, being frank, neither is TSW, but I feel it's much closer. For me though, it's got a lot less to do with the content and a lot more to do with the experience, but then I don't mind what I drive at all, I love all trains. I appreciate i'm probably a bit weird though and I get that having your favourite content is important too, just for me, it's much less important. As to what should be free and what should be paid... again, that's up to you to decide what you're happy with and for us to decide what works commercially for us. Where we agree, happy days. Where we disagree, forum posts and unhappiness. We try to do the best we can but, it's inevitable we won't always agree i'm afraid. Keep the feedback coming though, we listen and it's all discussed. Matt.
I would pay more if it meant routes came out with less bugs, yes. Your comment about being upset about there still being bugs is a strawman.
