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Upcoming Dlc's/deluxe Edition Content/season Pass?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by StarTr3k1701, Sep 5, 2018.

?
  1. Yes

    37.9%
  2. No

    48.3%
  3. No, but there should be discounts for the deluxe edition owners

    13.8%
  1. StarTr3k1701

    StarTr3k1701 Member

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    As someone who has purchased the deluxe edition of the game I am wondering if the extra locomotive will be the only benefit we get, while I am hoping that we get a discount on the upcoming WSR dlc. Another thing I am wondering about with the upcoming dlcs is if there will be a season pass, I know dovetail doesn't have much experience with consoles but I would happily pay another £45 if it meant we got all the dlc that gets released in the future and hopefully it will be worth it if they improve upon the game (I mean seriously only 9GB its clear you don't know how to optimize so you are lowering the overall game size instead, sorry if i'm wrong but that is how it seams).
     
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  2. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Season pass for console games is normal, and I would have totally gone for that. Doubt it would happen though because it is late in the day and normally a season pass is announced before the release then you know how much it will cost you if you want the full game. With this we have WSR on Tuesday and not even a price confirmed for this single DLC.

    By the way, I went for the physical copy of the game for two reasons, I prefer games on disc, but also the additional bonus was a variation of a loco we get in the standard game. I'm also not as fussed about the non UK routes/content anyway.
     
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  3. xD 2Bad4You

    xD 2Bad4You Well-Known Member

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    Season passes are great for some games, but for Simulation games they just dont work.
    The game will get DLC in the years to follow, developing DLC for simulation games is expensive with licensing fees, time needed for development of each route and so on. (RSN as example was 2 years in development). So you wont see anything like that for TSW or other Simulation based games.

    Further usually in simulation games like Train Sim´s you pick the routes you like instead of getting them all. If you look at DLC available for TS it would be a huge investment to get everything. At the moment sure the Route choice is limited in TSW but it will grow over time and even faster if 3rd parties get on board. So its just not a game for a Season Pass model.

    On PC there always was a discount if you purchase / pre order a new Route. Since we dont get a preorder, we might get like a week long introduction discount for early adopters.
     
  4. redgor thenoob

    redgor thenoob New Member

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    Not entirely true. There are simulator games that offer season passes . The thing with a seasons pass though is it expires and at times you lose your items ( I've experience it with other games). There are other sim games on console that have a seasons pass, I've bought them that's honi know. So as I said your comment about seasons pass on simulation games is all false
     
  5. iAspex

    iAspex Active Member

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    As explained before, you buy what you want, not every single route and/or train. If it is all of them, then so be it, but people would want to buy which routes they want, for example, I'm more keen on the UK ones, so I'd buy them.
     
  6. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Some of the contributors in this thread are a great example of how DTG has misjudged the console market.

    Train Simulator 20xx has over £4000 worth of DLC. Suggesting that DTG would create a £45 season pass to give players access to a TSW DLC catalogue, which could hypothetically run into the thousands of pounds, is indicative of the console demographic. Most Season Passes save buyers around 20%-25%, so assuming TSW to be as successful as TS2019, a 'Season Pass' would potentially cost around £3000-£3200. Even if they had several 'Season Passes,' with content divided by country, you'd still be talking about a cost of £800-£1000. Throw into the mix the possibility that TSW could be cancelled like FSW or have support withdrawn like Euro Fishing, nobody is going to spend that sort of money for a Season Pass.

    Console players are not going to pay $20-$40 for each DLC, they on average don't have the disposable income of PC players, nor do they wish to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on a DLC collection, which may be made redundant in a couple of years when the next console comes out; For two years after release you couldn't play Xbox 360 games on the Xbox One, even now not all Xbox 360 games are compatible with the Xbox One. I still play with Rail Simulator content from 10 years ago on the PC, does anyone really think in 10 years time people will be running TSW on a 15 year old console? Not likely.
     
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  7. Kizna DeAllura

    Kizna DeAllura New Member

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    I'd be interested in what Simulator games that are supposed to be?
     
  8. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    The one thing no one has mentioned here is that Dovetail have never announced a roadmap. In effect we don't know where this game will go at all. Again on consoles, the big companies like EA etc announce a roadmap to keep players interested in the game and to look forward to what is to come. I'm not comparing Dovetail to EA by any means but a simple bulleted list would suffice.

    Just things they are working on eg dev tools for other content providers, ability to run UK locos on other UK routes other than the one they came with etc etc

    I also wasn't sure if the game dropping in price yesterday by £10 was a positive or negative after just over a month since release.
     
  9. TrainSim-Luke

    TrainSim-Luke Well-Known Member

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    Why's that? We run sales all the time. Literally all the time, our weekly deals on the Dovetail Store means there is always something discounted.

    Also, the above reason is why we don't do season passes. And at no point did we ever promise that buying the Deluxe Edition will get discounts on or free future DLCs, although a lot of people keeping asking this. The extra £5 you spent to get the Deluxe Edition gave you the extra loco and freight wagons for the NEC, it is not a season pass.
     
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  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    OK, let's take this at face value and compare to another game, made by a large company that is cross format and has "added packs"... The Sims, specifically Sims4

    The root game on playstation store costs £45, so the same as the Deluxe edition of TSW. The addons for the Sims 4 are between £8 and £33. The average is £8 to £15. To get everything and every expansion pack would be about £300

    And this is for the Sims, a game that takes little research and doesn't have an audience like TSW where people use, live, breathe and critique almost everything about it
    If the Sims get it wrong the people get the wrong hair colour or a dog talks in swedish. If TSW get it wrong we get every man and his dog on here beating on about it.

    So to say that DTG are "misjudging the console market" when they're doing exactly what major software houses have been doing for years I find a bit off.
     
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  11. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Thats fair enough Luke. For many of us this is our first Dovetail purchase so we are not aware how it works.

    For the record I absolutely do expect to pay for the DLC's and am looking forward to WSR a lot.

    StarTr3k1701 I bet you wish you never asked your original question now ;-)
     
  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    "There is no such thing as a stupid question" as the old saying goes. the question was valid and there may be ways that "season passes" can be used, such as reductions on all DLC maybe rather than getting everything for one payment and it's certainly a revenue stream that DTG might think of. So long as it can be applied to all platforms I'm all for it!
     
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  13. Dawidowmaker999

    Dawidowmaker999 New Member

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    I wouldn’t mind paying $20-30 NZD for the dlcs. I’m happy paying top dollar for a game I love. End of the day we console players are lucky that we a getting some games that only run on pc.
     
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  14. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The nearest comparable game in terms of DLC and you can get all the DLC for less than 1/10th of the cost of TSxx DLC, the DLC is also on average cheaper. Additionally The Sims is aimed at the mass market and casual gamers, Train Sim is a much smaller niche market and it doesn't appeal anything like as much to the casual gamer.
     
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    What game?

    So if TSW is more niche then maybe those niche people would be willing to pay more for things. This still undermines the argument that "console gamers won't pay"
     
  16. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The Sims 4, in terms of DLC.


    It doesn't, because the console gamer demographic don't play niche games which rely on DLC, nor do they have the disposable income of the PC gamer demographic, and they won't spend thousands of pounds on DLC for TSW when their console is likely to be replaced, by one which doesn't play TSW, in 2-3 years.

    Consoles also take a hit in terms of visuals and content. GWE for example doesn't have the stopping services, the HSTs are shorter than in reality and the graphics in general are not as good. Because it is a niche market, and those with interests in niche games do spend more, they spend more on hardware (decent PC instead of a cheaper console) as well as software (DLC).
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    So you're comparing "total cost" of a game that has about thirty DLC with one that has hundreds? That makes little sense

    Fine. Then DTG should kill the console and concentrate on the PC. Is that what you're saying?
    Personally I don't care but the reaction by people who have consoles, who want to drive trains and who are willing to spend a few quid on something that runs on a £400 console has been positive from what I've seen.
    As someone who would happily pay good money for a decent product that will give hours of enjoyment, I don't fall into your category of "casual gamer"
     
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  18. Caineth

    Caineth Member

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    I think it would be tough to market a season pass at this time, but a good middle ground would be "DLC packs" down the road. You could, for example, release a "German DLC pack" when you have 2-3 german routes as DLC, as a way to discount older content, like ARuscoe mentioned. There are a lot of possibilities for the marketing team to get creative, for sure. :)
     
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  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They do have almost constant sales, "deals of the week" etc etc
     
  20. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Our sales would always have to come from the PS store though I assume rather than Dovetails site
     
  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I'm not too familiar with the PS store, but would presume that markdowns and sales are possible... More work for DTG to get them setup I guess
     
  22. UP_conductor79

    UP_conductor79 Member

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    Huh, saying console users dont have disposable income is kinda insulting, I make plenty of money on average $70k+ a year as a conductor on the union pacific railroad. So to say console users are not going to spend 4k or whatever on DLC is completely retarded and judgmental. That be like me saying if you never worked on the railroad then you shouldn't be playing a train simulator and get a job on a railroad if you wanna drive a train. Honestly I could careless what you do or play, If you in to it great! If not then thats great too.

    Maybe, I rather play on my 70" 4k smart tv with my $5k dobby surround sound system, that makes it feels like a train coming right in my new house, and maybe I wanna be able to take my ps4 on a train "a real train" and have something to play and have something to do when I'm away from home for x amount of time. Now I can't do that with a computer, now can I? Sure I can use my gaming laptop and I do on a occasion but alot of times I dont wanna carry multiple bags, and all of the time we stay in hotels that have big screen TVs in the crew rooms and someone always brings their ps4 or xbox with them and we spend alot of time in there when we are waiting to get called. I don't know what you do for a living but, all those people make a lot of money and alot of them make 90k dollars a year or more.

    I have own a couple of high end computers and I have honestly played several games on it that completely looked like crap compared to the console versions or just about the same in graphics. So that argument is completely false. But also to say console users are causal gamers, I'm just guessing you never seen people playing COD online either on the ps4 or xbox from all ages and all backgrounds and they are playing COD non-stop and maybe a break here and there. I don't know about you but I don't play TSW or TS 20** non-stop, day in and day out.
     
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  23. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    That's not what I'm saying.

    If I was in DTG's position, I'd have come up with an arcade style Train Sim for the consoles based on UE4/TSW. There wouldn't be any need for complicated signalling systems, cold starts and accurate sounds; It would just have simple controls and really pretty scenery, perhaps even procedurally generated scenery, so every time you drive there will be something different to see.

    Realism would go out the window, because most casual gamers want a nice relaxing train ride, not 101 safety systems that keep going off and a throttle that doesn't make the train go because the generator field switch is in the wrong position. Realism is also what costs the money during development, so it would be cheap to produce and at the same time cater to the largest demographic within the console gamer market, a big win!

    The money from the game could be used to help fund the early stages of the much more complex TSW, as well as remove the issue of having to develop a complex game for multiple platforms.
     
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  24. Dawidowmaker999

    Dawidowmaker999 New Member

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    Yep once again the PC master race fan boys are acting like they are so much better than console players. I play TSW on console because I’m not going to spend $2000 plus on a pc when I can put that money toward a car. PC master race fan boys should just get over the fact that TSW is on console.
     
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  25. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    UP_conductor79 and Dawidowmaker999 personally I don’t think that Digital Draftsman is trying to start a PC vs. console users war.

    Firstly, on his comment about how he would have designed a console application he’s entitled to that view. For those of us coming from TS (a PC app) there’s a history of DTG not even getting the simple things right. Now I’m not a long term user of TS - and DTG are showing some signs of improvement - but for many I think there’s a concern as to whether TSW is going to work out as well as we all hope. Building a sophsticated Train Sim platform, that also works for casual users for both console and PC isn’t going to be easy. It’s going to be a challenge for DTG. Digital Draftsman saying if he’d been in charge he would have set the bar lower (or differently) isn’t a pop at console users.

    On whether console users spend as much or have as much disposable income does of course mean looking at a big pool of people with very differing levels of income. Now I think - but I can’t prove it - is that the average age of users is lower on consoles than PCs. That won’t be universally true but you can see from some of the forum postings that many of the new contributor seem younger. Now that’s anything but a problem. New blood is what this hobby needs. But if that’s true, that on average console users are younger then yes they probably do have less disposable income. But there will be many exceptions to that.

    As to what Digital Draftsman does for a living I don’t know, but I do know that in the past he’s produced TS software professionally so I think if he has an opinion it’s grounded on something other than being a ‘PC master race fan’.

    On the comment about $2,000s being the required budget for a PC to play the game reasonably I think that’s less and less true. Increasingly there are gaming laptops around the $1,000 mark that will be fine for TSW. Still more expensive than a console I know.

    UP_conductor79 firstly I think it’s great that someone enjoys their job enough to want to continue it into their spare time. It’s also a great tribute to TSW that a professional in the railroad industry finds it a great product. However with your background and knowledge personally I think you’d really appreciate the extra dimension an editor gives the game. It isn’t available yet, but on the PC side it’s something of a game changer. Now that isn’t going to be available on the console. That doesn’t make PC users superior to console users but it may well make the PC version better. That isn’t about choosing a ‘camp’ it’s about what is going to be a fact of life.
     
  26. bart2day

    bart2day Member

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    It seems fairly obvious to me that the amount of DLC for TSW will never run into the hundreds or thousands especially on consoles. Look at the current release pattern. One route every three months on average. That four routes a year. By 2020/2021 a new generation of consoles will be out so I can't see any more than a couple of hundred pounds worth of DLC ever ending up on consoles. In my opinion the lifespan of this game on consoles will be short unless DTG release TSW for the PS5 or Xbox Two and allow us to move our purchased DLC to the new consoles.

    Therefore a season pass, that perhaps give you all the routes released in a calendar year for one price doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.
     
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  27. Dawidowmaker999

    Dawidowmaker999 New Member

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    Cheapest Gaming PC I can get in NZ is $2000.
     
  28. Dawidowmaker999

    Dawidowmaker999 New Member

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    Sorry if I sounded like a asshat. Just over some pc players acting like they are so much better lol.
     
  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Ah right. then this isn't the game for those players. I suggest they go elsewhere. This is supposed to be a train simulator rather than an arcade game...
     
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  30. UP_conductor79

    UP_conductor79 Member

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    I'm sick of it too, especially when they generalize and paint all console users is just some poor people that can't buy a high end gaming computer and isn't going to go out and spend alot of money on DLC and highly doubt most of them don't get every DLC that is released (nor would I) or paint all consoles users is just some casual gamers which is untrue. I hate to tell the "master race" even TS 2018 isn't exactly realistic nor accurate in most cases. I know for a fact that the UP and the BNSF uses (I would imagine CSX also does) simulators for people that goes into the engine program or to get recertified and those are highly accurate and realistic next to real thing. But each of those cost millions of dollars a piece and those can throw anything at you at any given time. Which TS does NOT, for an example in TS or TSW you can use the dynamic brakes all the time without causing the traction motors to overheat and catch fire, and actually we don't use the amp meter to throttle up, just to name a few. So to those say that the consoles have limitations and making the game unrealistic doesn't know crap. Being a game developer compared to the real world is like comparing apples to oranges, I'm not slamming developers of DTG but even with them they are limited what they can do unless they have free access to that specific route and that specific railroad and have access to their simulators and the understanding how they operate.

    Now I give DTG some credit for trying and bringing a train simulator to consoles, and I'm willing to give them a chance to get the game as close to being realistic as much as possible.
     
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  31. Caineth

    Caineth Member

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    Either that, or the next generation might be backwards compatible, considering the PS4 is built on PC-like architecture. The step between the PS4 and PS5, from a technical standpoint, shouldn't be as big as it was between earlier generations. If that's the case, TSW might be able to run on the PS5 as well, with all the DLC carrying over. It's a nice thought, at least.
     
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