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Users Poll For Tsw 2020 (and Ts 2020)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jack O'Track, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Jack O'Track

    Jack O'Track Active Member

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    Can of Worms opener?

    Maybe it's an idea to setup a poll about the likes and un-likes of the current state TSW 2020 is at for users? A scale of 1- 5 rating to keep things simple.

    Guess the setup of it must come from some one who knows the whole caboose like all the routes and various train sytems well enough.

    I can think of some listing points like value-ing a favorite loc, complexity thereof, favorite route, reality feel ...

    Tech things as 'access overview to all needed functions in a loc' and the mousing around amount needed, graphics quality, realism vs game feel and accessibility, bugs, dovetail's response time to buyer's wishes, manual quality, the need for an editor. Prices vs value for money maybe, the need or wish for 3rd party access..

    Something as rating the 'amount of expertise & puzzling needed to get going' ? A wish list for better game play access, like Ai autopilot functions, maybe a God mode, or control overrides as easy vs complex mode, joystick functionality. Maybe the wish for interchange-ability, as free-flight runs with various locs all over the routes.

    Forum quality and ease of access (things like, IMO, the internal search function needs work as a search via a browser often works faster). Too many complaints, tips and wishes are scattered all over the whole forum it seems.

    Reason could be a better overview for DTG what to aim for and where to go with updating and upgrading benefiting the users.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  2. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Member

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    Without an editor the game is dead in the water, long term.

    Personally give it another 6 months and no editor, no more purchases. It will be removed from my Steam installs and forgotten about.

    In the same way i dumped Trainz 6 months back and never looked back after 18 yrs (next month) of using it.
     
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  3. stujoy

    stujoy Active Member

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    That's nonsense. The game doesn't NEED an editor. Some people want it. Others, like myself, aren't that bothered. The simulator stands alone in the form it is now. New locos and routes are being released all the time, the quality is high, and there is plenty to do. If you want an editor, making up your own scenarios, unrealistic swapping of trains between countries and hundreds of routes made by third parties, that's covered in a different product.
     
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  4. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Member

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    Your opinion i don't agree. Any half decent simulator game, includes an editor.

    On the pc it is expected and any game without one, will not have a long shelf life.
     
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  5. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    MSTS's almost 20 and Railworks' 10 years of life as of now prove you wrong. Or let's talk about JBSS BAHN. That program is basically editor only. First version released in 1985, latest one two weeks ago.

    TSW meanwhile, I'm the last person I know still holding out, all others left. And I'm losing patience as well. TSW is the simulator I always wished for, minus the fact it's from Dovetail.

    You are right that there are other simulators with plenty of content - now guess where that content came from. And name a good reason not to pave TSW's way to such a future.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  6. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Well, it does because if we had an editor DTG can be making their next route while 3rd party creators are building another. We would see more DLC on a more regular basis and it would open up more variety.
     
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  7. stujoy

    stujoy Active Member

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    The existence of other simulators with an editor does not prove me wrong. TSW not having an editor doesn't mean it won't last. There is always the choice, and TSW is a better experience than fiddling round trying to fix broken third party content in an editor.

    If you want to tinker around with an editor, get a product with an editor. There are many people outside your group of friends that just want a simulator that works with all the content being official content, made by the people who make the sim. TSW is perfect for those people and in the main it does it very well.
     
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  8. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    That’s utter nonsense to say that TSW doesn’t need an editor. It absolutely does need one.

    Just look at how popular TS1 community routes, mods and workshop items are. Not to mention the fact that third parties need an editor to develop their own routes.

    I certainly do not want to wait months for content to come out only by DTG themselves.

    We’d get new content on a much more frequent basis if the editor was available today for TSW, be it from the community or third parties.
     
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  9. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Fixing broken content is better than not fixing broken content due to the lack of ways to do so.
    Official content, 3rd party content, amateur content... I've seen plenty of great quality as well as great disasters in all of these categories.
    TSW doing very well in the main? Other than console users who have zero alternatives if they want to play a trainsim, I see no evidence whatsoever for TSW doing anything close to well. Steam, for each game you own, lists how many of your friends also play it.
    For TSW, my Steam page only shows how many used to play it, eg. have uninstalled it since.

    And another point against your statement: Unofficial content being available doesn force you to use it. But truth being told, comparing DTG stuff to, for example, Armstrong Powerhouse, virtualRailroads and RSSLO content, you'll soon see who delivers the better quality.
    Not saying DTG's focus on quantity was in itself wrong, but it's not without alternatives.

    You are somewhat right in saying, TSW was able to stand on its own so far. It was, but under the premise that an editor would arrive before long. Soon as the community comes to the realisation that this is not going to happen, that might well be it for TSW.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  10. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually in agreement with you here. TSW as it stands has (quite) a few bugs, but on the whole the route and loco quality is good and there's already enough content that I haven't bought all the DLC, but have plenty to keep me occupied. Maybe it's a different mindset for console users who just want stuff to work straight out of the box, but when I read the TS2020 forums with people struggling to get all the required assets to make third party routes work properly, i'm glad I don't have to think about all that.

    I remember when all my mates were building their first PCs and they were excited about overclocking whatever processor and playing around with drivers and struggling to get their graphics cards working as they should, never actually doing anything productive with them, and meanwhile, I bought a Mac and was spending my time doing actual design work and getting paid for it. Now I want my train sim to let me drive trains and TSW lets me do that.

    In real terms, the editor will be used by a minority of people/teams to build new routes, and the most that others will do with it is tinker with some scenarios and set up specific tasks to do - hardly worth the drama of the endless "Where's the editor?" threads on these forums. The third parties who can actually make and model new routes will probably be the people already with beta access to the tools and working with DTG to get new content produced. If those editor tools are never made public, then as long as DLC continues to come at the rate it is, with quality continuing to improve as it has been, I won't be at all bothered.
     
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  11. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    The people using the editor will most likely be a minority, that is right. What they produce with it will benefit the masses though. Just as it does for TS1 in the Steam Workshop, just as it has done for MSTS and all the various flightsims for decades. At least us PC users are used to fiddling with files and configs. The hardcore of us builds their own computers from scratch. A simulator that doesn't allow that fiddling feels like a car where you can't adjust the seats, with a stereo where you can change neither the station nor the volume. And let's not even start talking about tuning the car...
     
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  12. Jack O'Track

    Jack O'Track Active Member

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    EDITOR; the sooner the better .... !!!
     
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  13. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    But DTG getting together with those minority of third parties to provide the tools to build new DLC, and DTG releasing an editor to the public are two entirely different things. If they're already doing the former, then I can live without the latter. Changing the radio and adjusting the seats is more akin to turning the HUD off in the options. What you're demanding is a fully kitted out garage with racks of Snap On tools and precision diagnostic equipment, just so that you can install a dash cam and put some stickers on your car.
     
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  14. fpriotto520

    fpriotto520 New Member

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    You have something wrong with your head.
    Go to a doctor.
     
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  15. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    That would be a good start, that's sure. DTG colaborating with Rivet and most recently Armstrong is great news too, no doubt. But then, I've also heard respected TS1 content creators (Chris Longhurst and some from the German scene, namely) say that, as long as TSW has no official mod support, they won't even look at it.
     
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  16. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Why anyone wouldn’t want an editor for TSW is beyond me.

    It’ll only allow the game to open up and expand, as well as getting content on a much more frequent basis. It almost feels like TSW is locked in a cage.

    Just downloading a few new scenarios would be a start. Service mode feels very repetitive once you’ve done a handful already, as it offers no dynamic events, or anything different to the last service.

    If TS1 didn’t have an editor, I doubt it’d be anywhere near as popular as it is today.

    With pretty much any game, modding, fixing, updating, building new maps etc. makes it so much more fun and enjoyable, as well as being able to replay it without getting bored. This is mostly down to the work of the community. I think when this will be possible for TSW, that's when the game will really be able to shine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  17. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Active Member

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    So fpriotto520, I downvoted your above post and you have downvoted 10 of my posts, at least you took time from your life to do that...:D
     
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  18. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he does way more down voting than actual contributing, and when he does contribute it's not worth the read time. I wouldn't get hung up on it, he's either a simpleton or a troll.
     
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  19. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Member

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    Got that in one, it would have faded away a long time back.
    MSTS\Open Rails is only popular still due to the open ended nature of the games and the opportunities for tweaking, editing, scenario and route creation. Trainz is a pile of crud, except for Surveyor, which is the best route creation editor around.
     
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  20. fpriotto520

    fpriotto520 New Member

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    Instead of continuing to write crap, go study a little. You could become more cultured.
     
  21. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks once again for your valuable input and for supporting my claims with ample evidence.
     
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  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    There are one or two who do that! Quite sad really.
     
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  23. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    WARNING....Instead of being insensitive and rude to others who are trying to make a valid point, why don't you offer a valid counterpoint to the discussion.
     
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  24. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well for MSTS I built my own car (tram car, that is) from scratch ;)
     
  25. stujoy

    stujoy Active Member

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    I dumped Trainz ages ago, mainly because it was more bugs than useable program. Before TANE, I spent more time in a text editor, changing the same things over and over again to get compatibility between assets and routes and getting things to work, than I did playing the game. Then stuff updated itself out of compatibility and the cycle started again. It was a mess. TANE was absolutely awful and I wasn't about to go through hundreds of hours making stuff work to any kind of standard. I'd spent money on it, I wanted it to work out of the box.

    One thing I'm very happy with regarding TSW is that there is not a massive amount of crap about for me to search through to find something half decent to play - ie drive some ruddy trains, and the stuff there is available all works (minus the occasional bug) without me tinkering with it or going near another application.

    That is what I, and many other people, want from a train simulator. It is a valid argument and no amount of downvoting my comments will change that. I've been down the other road and it drove me crazy. In one way it will be better if there is never a publicly available editor, so in 10 years time, there won't be an internet full of awful, broken content for me to wade though. Just a large enough choice of great quality routes and trains, from DTG and official creators, for me to enjoy with very little stress attached.

    For those who want an editor based train sim, you have TSx and others already. Go nuts with them to your heart's content, you deserve it.
     
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