Various Revisions Of The Same Type Of Train In Tsw

The best thing to do going forward would be to include 'new' rolling stock with every route (by that I mean anything completely new, with a different livery or of a different variant/subclass) so to avoid having multiple of the same. Existing stock appropriate for a route would then be layered on where it doesn't constitute the majority of the timetable. Plenty of routes would fit this scope.

 

Main issue I would have with this is exactly the issue we have now. The 375/377 etc work on multiple routes, so where a new route has the 377 but DTG have new toys if it was "new route, new stock" then the old route would be left behind.
I agree with subclasses etc as a possibility to solve this, but you'd still end up with "old 377 can't do PIS, new 377 can" or different sounds etc etc

 

Simrail has no routes I am or ever will be interested in, and the videos are not of gameplay... Until I see a proper player stream and they make routes I actually want, not for me

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has similar frustrations. ECW is my second all-time favourite route (after London Commuter) and since the latter came out, I've really struggled to enjoy ECW with the older 377, it just ruins the immersion, especially when there is such a better version already available in game, really annoying to say the least! Instead, whenever I've played ECW, about 90% of the time I just use the 313 instead.

 

Having multiple trains the same with different functions based on the route you use or the train you use is like a messy cutlery draw. Never know what to pick up and what it's going to do

 

The beauty of the world is variety. There is something somewhere for everyone.

I have no idea how their project will end up. They have the undeniable experince from building proper simulators for train engineers. Now it looks like they touch on the game aspect of things and bring appealing features like proper lighting and DLSS.

All in all, competition is great! Should push (other) people out of their chill zone and stop making excuses for delays, lack of variety, etc.

 

Competition is only valid if it affects sales, otherwise it makes little difference. And for me there IS no competition yet because simrail haven't actually done anything, same as the pres crew fixes haven't been done yet

Until someone gets their hands on the game and sees what happens with it outside of the dev environment it doesn't exist...

 

Except, it does exist!
Players are trying it out, I tried it out as well. There are reviews as well.
You too can try, if you really want that is.
It's on a different profile called prologue. I don't think it has the last graphics update yet though.

 

I’ve just remembered something regarding ECW’s 377 - AI 377s still don’t have deceleration sounds, do they? Hasn’t been mentioned as being fixed by the preservation team, either.

What a mess when we already have a superior version of the train in BML.

 

I could understand the argument that the scenarious might need to be remade for each upgrade. Especially the ones that tell us to press specific buttons etc. The difficulty would be affected too, when a train gets faster acceleration in a later update, and better brakes, and now the "on the edge of being late" hard difficulty scenario becomes much easier. Or way harder if a train gets an updated the other direction, or impossible to complete.

Same could be said about the timetable services.

 

That potential problem would be obviated if timetables were based on the RW timetables, rather than auto-generated using AI trains.

 

Indeed, but I find it even more ironic that the "superior version" still has its own bugs, such as the very frustrating cab lighting issue etc.

 

That also affects 146.2 143 issues too and in the future MRCE BR 182 & DB BR 182 Rapid transit are the base models for OBB 1016 & 1116.

 

Agreed. This sort of "make the train fit the timetable" mentality is backwards, and would rightly be laughed out of any other simulation genre. I've honestly given up on Train Sim World at this point; Train Simulator 2022 just seems to get more things right, even if it is clunkier and not as pretty. Hopefully DTG will figure this out sooner rather than later, but I fear that they've decided that the only way they can turn a profit is by pumping out new routes and rolling stock.

 

I would love to know what TSC gets right that TSW doesn't because I gave up on TSC due to the constant crashes, memory holes, incomplete routes, loco asset mess, third party abandonment of DLC, third party abandonment of websites...
I changed to TSW because at least within a given scope of the meaning "work" the DLC all work out of the box without needing a load of third party nonsense which as I say, will likely be abandoned down the line (looking at AP here)

 

We can only hope that when TSW3 is brainstormed in dark backrooms at Dovetail Towers, the core systems will be rewritten to take on board the excellent suggestions in this thread: rolling stock not being tied to routes, and a true dispatcher that guides the trains in an intelligent fashion.

 

I feel the same. TS1 has it's issues, although I haven't had an OOM crash for a long time, apart from once or twice in the scenario editor. The main attraction for me in TSW was service mode, but as the older period routes (which I prefer) generally don't seem to have such a high level of realism in my view, I would rather spend time in the scenario editor on TS1 and make realistic scenarios to real world timetables. In TSW you get what the route builder deems to be realistic.

I have uninstalled TSW for now as I needed HD space, I will probably reinstall it when spirit of steam comes out. I hope that we get in the future some classic BR diesel and steam routes which have the same attention to detail and accuracy to which the modern routes seem to command. Having said that the Spirit of Steam route looks promising and I think with some DLC for it to follow could be a very immersive experience.

I can't see TSW usurping TS1 on my HD for many years yet, if ever.

 

After my last upgrade I uninstalled TS1.
Guess I'm a lightweight.

That said, the editor was the best thing about it. Being able to create your own scenarios and download others.
Had some wonderfully immersive runs from player generated content.

 

I've had just as many crashes in TSW2, honestly, and plenty more duff scenarios with red signals that never clear.
I agree that the third party situation in TSC is a bit of a Wild West, but there's definitely great stuff in there if you're willing to search for it. Armstrong Powerhouse, Steam Sounds Supreme, Searchlight Simulations, Reppo, and more - all great content. At least we actually get the choice, as opposed to the same couple of developers on TSW2.

Yep, the editor is the thing that keeps bringing me back. Being able to actually create proper scenarios is key to the longevity of the sim, otherwise things will get stale as you run out of things to do that aren't repeats.

 

Fall at the first there... AP remove content and orphan scenarios. Not the best example of a content creator other than they do good sounds...

 

You can download the "Prologue" for free now on Steam
SimRail - The Railway Simulator on Steam (steampowered.com)

 

Something tells me this has to do with the release of dtgs spirit of steam without a manual firing .

Competition is always good, in this case my guess is dtg has just more experience with the difficulties of train sims. So im kind of glad its not microsoft coming around the corner with msts and dry out everything.

But it looks like the ones wanted finally drive in an other country get their chance now. This franchise faces same problems with signal & track rules, braking physics etc., so just from a few pics im not convinced.

 

this thread was originally about the difference of the trains on the routes,

I must be the odd one out here... but isn't that a bit more life like? more immersive? more realistic?

In real life every individual train has slightly different driving characteristics, regional variations... with slightly different servicing routines etc.

I.e. depending on the train you are assigned to drive, the brakes apply slightly faster or slower, power is taken up a little differently, slightly different sounds....i do mean slightly, and not missing sounds or totally LOVE ones... but i know sounds is a big issue with the UE4 engine already, so wipers that squeak on one loco and are nice and quiet on another may be asking too much.

Slight differences like some pixels out on the FIS/PIS displays, different amounts of weathering etc,


So sorta.... kinda... maybe... having different versions of 'the same' train is just more prototypical,

It would be nice if this kind of thing was intentional... a single base model of each loco/train, but different ones with different serial numbers, each with slightly different characteristics,
But with exactly the same controls assigned to them... and controls for RailDriver matching in every German train that shares the controls that are operable..

 

It was released in December.

Cheers

 

Ha, completly missed that one.. thanks anyway.

 

The problem is that we have one outdated version of a train and one newer version of the same train. So for example the ECW 377 and the BML 377. The ecw has incorrect PIS, and sounds. The BML 377 has accurate PIS and close to accurate sounds. The same pair of trains in real life aren't gonna have different sounds and PIS. That isn't realistic to real life. Your not gonna have for example LIRR M7s have different propulsion sounds in real life for example. This is why DTG's design choice is flawed because we have one outdated train with inaccurate sounds, pis and possibly physics and then we have the same exact version of the train that fixes those issues. There should be a base and whatever is updated to that base should apply to all routes but DTG don't do that which means we have different versions of the same train with different sounds which isn't realistic at all nor prototypical.

 

I fear amongst being a medium amount of development effort in comparison to other deeper adjustments (probably a comparable amount of working hours as xbox sound bug and ps5 limit) it was decided to pick those customers who buy the newer DLC mostly for the new version of their preferred engine up as well... this additional incentive would be missing if everything would be included in a single database.

Although I still have hope to be proven wrong someday. The benefits of a single-database-system should really overwhelm a small figure of missed sales...

<wishful thinking on>
Maybe we all get surprised and its all part of the PS solution?
<wishful thinking off>
<reality mode on>

 

I absolutely agree with you. Also there is not much in the way of rolling stock either.

So 500 km, of just Poland with 3 locos at release...Steam to follow later (where have I heard that before, and how many years did that take.) No branding, no mention of time tables. You get to be the dispatcher but no real details on if it is a "smart" dispatch system when you are not in control.

And multiplayer well that turns me off, I find there are too many idiots when playing multiplayer on simulation games who ruin the experience, like flight sim.

You will end up getting some jerk on dispatch routing you right into another train because they are bored.

And finally there is no public editor for the game either. So this is Simrail is a hard no for me at least until they have a few years under their belt and I can see how much any DLC will be with them, if they will have any. But for now I will stick to the devil I know, just on experience in train simulation is enough for me to stick with them.

There just is not enough info to make me switch from TSW or TSC.

 

The thing is, I really don't care much about crossing gates or platform climb-up, but I DO care very much about fixing longstanding bugs. From my perspective, the PC's mandate has its priorities reversed.

 

Crossing gates I can see being a good thing. Platform climb up maybe not, but the routes are just about all done now for that anyway
Not sure those things affect bugfixes though as they're both "pres crew" installations and they don't fix ALL bugs

 

The Pres Crew only have a finite number of man-hours to devote to each route. Doing one thing means another thing doesn't get done.

 

Look, it's a balance of accuracy from differences in models vs "waah, it's the same recycled model" .... pick one guys.

 

The question was whether the pres crew address all bugs, and of course not all pres crew are involved in core dev anyway, with them also having route and artist devs who wouldn't necessarily be fixing timetables or locos

 

As i said before. There is something fundamentaly wrong with the way DTG "build" TSW.
Every DLC is basically its own game with a few connections like being able to add rolling stock to other routes.
Its sadly a mess.

There is no need for 80 Dosto Variants and 5 BR 442 Variants!

 

And yet the contrary to this is that if all routes had to be linked and assets usable elsewhere you'd end up with a cluster of routes in each country and in one time period because the turnover of routes is fairly low. This would cause as many issues as their current way of working would

 

Hello,

I am not a professional Game Programmer, but I am spending many hours in programming in Unreal and Unity. Generally, I am very curious on how DTG solved some implementations like the safety systems.

A good example is the LZB on various locos. The ICE 3 and BR 101 for example seems to have a very prototypical implementation of the LZB. ALL TRAXX locos having the system implemented but do not have any indicators in the MFD. Another example is the PZB. There are different bugs like blinking indicators after pressing PZB Release.

Normally in Unreal you can create Actor Components. An Actor is the blueprint for a non-player game asset. For example, you create a new Train as an actor and then You can add a component to it.

So, in the whole game should be ONE representation of ONE safety system (PZB90, LZB, KVB …).

If you found a bug, you can solve it in the code of the component blueprint and you do not have to go into all different trains again.

Also, it would be better to have a “Asset Storage” for all game assets like trees, buildings or what ever and the routes are linked to the game assets in the file structure of the game. The same thing would be better for ALL locos, wagons etc. to store them outside of the route-file. You can update a train but do not have to download the entire route. This minimizes the update-size.

It is working with the loco DLCs then it should be working with the locos which comes with a route.


I do not want to blame DTG and my goal is not to tell them how they have to do their job. But there are some points I am wondering for a long time ago why they have done some decisions.

Best Regards

 

100% agree.

Thats what i mean when i say every DLC is basically its "own game".
Every loco seems to be build from scratch when it comes to safety systems and every route seems to be build from scratch (of course they copy assets) when it comes to things like the skybox or the lighting or the animated level crossings.

Same with the sounds. On loco A 99% of the sounds work perfectly but then they release loco B and only half the sounds work (like no AWS sound in some situations or no rolling sound). You would think since they have build dozens of locos with similar systems (AWS/PZB) this should not be a thing but again, it seems every loco or route is basically build from scratch each time or by a different team.

 

i agree, every DLC is basically a different version of the game,

look at trying to find engine.ini / gameuser.ini settings that works well for all DLC's, it's almost impossible, get everything set just right on one route, think you've cracked it, minimal micro stutters, graphics just how you like them,
then load another route and it's a slideshow running at 5fps.

Only way to do it is to treat every DLC as a separate version of TSW2, and load different .ini files depending on the DLC you are driving on that day.

similar problems with raildriver buttons, they cant even position the 3 PZB buttons in the same place for all the German trains.
Then you have the BR423, the one in the expansion pack Koln route has different raildriver button assignments to the MAG one.
i know they have regional differences... colour of the FIS screens etc, but one of the things about German public service vehicles is they deliberately share a similar control layout.

 

Absolutely. And that's because every DLC basically IS a different game, the core provides the control inputs and basic physics but everything else is in the assets in the DLC files, hence different raildriver buttons. The access for the raildriver itself is in the core, but the layout for that specific train is in the DLC files. Same with lighting settings and so on