Simugraph simulates slip speed/percentage, yes. EDIT: I removed the description here because I don't have the editor open and I don't actually remember exactly how the curves are shaped except that the ones I use look very much like the curves you can find by googling "adhesion vs slip percentage". The key difference is that in TSW the curves should start at y > 0.0 for x = 0.0, i.e. even at 0 slip you still have adhesion. Without this you can get some interesting (bad) effects.
Hi! Thank you very much, Vectron is brilliant! I have two questions I can't find answers for Is there any way of confirming AFB with PS4/5 pad? Each time I decouple the train and run it around combined breaks don't work. Setting it to "full breaks" only applies electric breaks which do almost nothing in low speeds. Is there anything special I need to do to make them work? Sorry for bothering you
1. Unfortunately, at this moment (on consoles) the only way to confirm AFB speed and engaging the train length feature is to pan to the AFB lever or throttle lever and click the buttons "manually". There are no console keybinds. The reason for this is that the identifiers do not yet exist in the game. On PC I had to add the exact key combination (Shift + R for example) which means PC users cannot change this keybind, as with other inputs. On Console I couldn't add fixed keybinds since many of the buttons are reused in different "modes" (can't remember the name but it's where you switch to use PZB for example). Hopefully these identifiers can be implemented by DTG in the future so that console players can have a button to press for the corresponding function. 2. This is basically blended braking at work The locomotive preferentially uses dynamic braking when the train brake is used. When shunting in light engine configuration and at low speed I would recommend using the direct brake instead of the train brake. It's kind of in the name (or at least it is for US locomotives where it's called "Independent brake").
I suspected something like that Well, that got me by surprise more than once. But what's even weirder is that same happens in emergency… And I bet this is not the behaviour one would like in an emergency. My first encounter was when I was approaching red light on Austrian route, I started breaking with train brakes, it didn't affect speed almost at all. In the meantime signal changed to "shunting", I beamed passed it, it tripped PZB emergency. Vectron continued like nothing happened Thanks for your reply anyway, I really appreciate it!
Can you try to reproduce that and make a video recording of the game? The Vectron using dynamic braking in Emergency/Zwangsbremsung is realistic as long as you don't press the SOS button (then the MCB will open and the pantograph drops which makes the locomotive revert to pneumatic braking).
Hi Thank you for your detailed explanation on the vectron. I wanted to use vectron in multiple unit configuration. 2 vectrons in the front and 2 vectrons at the back of a 1 km long freight train. Is there remote control of the back locomotives modelled? To be more clear with my question, I want to be able to control all my locomotives, 2 in the front and 2 in the back of the freight train from my front cab. Is this possible? If so, how? I could not find any answers in the manual
Hello cwf.green, Excellent tutorial, everything important is described to get you started with this Vectron 193. A big thank you to you for this user guide allowing everyone to be able to play TSW4 properly!!! Kind regards, tof
Yeah I'm also wondering if there's any special steps I have to take when using multiple Vectrons at once. I'm also curious about how to setup both a Vectron and different locomotive behind it.
shpranavar and wcwood92 multi-traction (double headed or top-tail) control is simulated on the Vectron, both Vectron-Vectron and Vectron-German Locomotive (I have not tested locomotives with tap changers so it is possible that these do not work). This requires that all intermediate wagons/coaches have UIC cables. Remote control is not simulated. Setting up the locomotive for multi traction does not require any additional steps compared to setting up a single Vectron locomotive, as long as the second locomotive has the pantograph raised and main circuit breaker closed (should be done by default and both of these are MU-controllable) except that you may need to change the brakemode selector on the second locomotive. If the second locomotive is a Vectron, the tractive and braking effort will be automatically limited (double/multi headed formation) but if the second locomotive is not a Vectron then you are responsible for limiting TE/BE yourself. More details are described in the Vectron Advanced Features Description thread in my signature.
How do I get the AFB to engage> have read and followed your guide but nothing happens with it. I set the speed limit and hit to confirm but am not getting the blue marker line around the speedo to show me what speed it's at.
Make sure to first enable AFB on the left MFD. It’s the symbol that looks like a speedometer. Then you can set a target speed and confirm.
cwf.green very cool! thanks for the reply. When you say UIC cables, I'm assuming that's for a consist with a Vectron up front and another locomotive (Vectron or otherwise) in the rear. How do we know which wagons have UIC cables?
In TSW this should be the IC, Doppelstock and "n-wagen" coaches. Freight wagons do not have UIC cables (> 99.9% of the cases, maybe some test train has run with a UIC cable to experiment with ep-braked freight trains).
Thanks for that. Will give that a go. Was expecting the AFB to be pretty much like the 101 as in no switch to activate the lever
In this post there is a picture of the UIC-cable connectors on the n-Wägen. On the Dostos, the connectors are visible in the space between the connecting doors, but not marked: Here are the connectors on the Vectron and on the 766 cab car, that allow connecting a loco on both ends: Connected (maybe a bit tight for running through curves, though): Another little point that makes the free roam and spawn and couple up everything feature such a huge addition to the game, that cannot be valued highly enough.
I’m confused, you need to activate AFB on the 101 as well via the main switch on the lower left console.
Yeah you're right. It's the 187 I'm thinking of not the 101. Had to go through the locos in game to check which one it was lol
Thanks, your guide helped me a lot. As I am playing my sims with an Elgato Stream Deck, is there a keybind for the MCB ? It's not Ctrl W... EDIT: I found the keys, these are "Ctrl Shift P" and "Ctrl P" for Circuit Breaker open/close. BUT I found out that this switch has some strange behaviour when I tried to program both these keys on my stream deck compared to other keys e.g. the panto. For the panto I program one key with "P" and a second with "Shift P". When I press either of them on the streamdeck, the panto switch goes into the UP or DOWN position and then back to neutral when released. NOT the MCB switch ! When I programmed two keys with the two Circuit Breaker keys above, the MCB switch moves to UP or DOWN and is staying there ! Pressing the opposite button does not help. When I use both keybinds on the normal keyboard, everything works as it should, but after trying "this and that" I figured out that I can provoke this weird behaviour with the keyboard too ! When I press Ctrl Shift P and then release only Ctrl Shift before releasing P, the MCB switch is stuck in the OFF position too. When I then try to move the switch to ON with the mouse, there's the clicksound of the switch played several times very fast... As this is the very first time that such an error occurs in TSW, I think there must be a problem with the programming of this switch, perhaps a wrong timing value ? Afterwards I tried the Talent, here the MCB has the same problem...
There is nothing specifically wrong with the way the MCB is implemented on the Vectron. The issue you are experiencing is a core TSW/(or UE?) issue present on all similar types of inputs ("Hold Increase Decrease" style levers) with CTRL/Shift modifiers. Try rebinding the PZB Acknowledge key to something like Shift + Page Down and try it.
OMG ! I'm playing this sim since TSW2 and I wasn't aware that I can rebind the keys now... So I rebinded the MCB ON/OFF to single letter keys and now I can shut it of and on with the streamdeck when passing the Schutzstrecke in Vorarlberg. Thanks for your help and again thanks for this excellent Vectron guide !!
Changing Keybinds not possible for certain functions ? Now that I have binded the keys I need on my streamdeck to single letters instead of CTR or SHIFT combinations, everything works fine, EXCEPT the AFB confirm button "Shift R". I can't rebind this one because it is simply not on the list where the keybindings can be changed. I also searched for the Shift R combination without success... Is there a solution for this ? I also couldn't find the "E" for sitting down in the keybindings list which is no problem but I could have erased that and used it for another function.
================================================ Thanks for this extensive written guide and the downloadable file, but the complexities of this amazing engine really deserve (and require) one or more advanced training sessions. The current session only covers v-e-r-y basic information. Matt recently provided a video "guide" to the Vectron, in which he occasionally fooled around with features such as the control desk screens, but without any really helpful, step-by-step guidance. Please give us more hands-on instruction!!!
Hello everyone, Small modification concerning the confirmation and adjustment of the speed chosen with your AFB from a keyboard: * click on the R key to adjust up and F down your VI * click on shift + R to lock your AFB that you have just modified !!! PS: on Windows 11Pro x64 PC with Steam client !!! Thanks again to cwf.green for all these additional explanations on the possibility of simulated branching or not with the Vectron 193 and other motor cars, a subject obviously more interesting for better veracity and credibility of the excellent work done for this motor car and therefore It would be a shame if this very important subject was not treated correctly, so I think it will be continued!!! Kind regards to all of you, tof
Just found that when in PZB mode "U", LZB allows a top speed of 120 km/h - this should not happen, LZB should limit the train speed to 100 km/h. (Wanted to put that in the Feedback forum, but it seems I am not able to delete my post in here)
LZB disables all PZB restrictions, this behaviour is absolutely correct. In reality LZB requires to know what brh and what vmax your train has and calculates the braking curve accordingly. However, you need a minimum of 60 brh to be allowed to run under LZB supervision. Hence, it is possible that with a „U“ train you would not even be allowed to drive under LZB. Obviously the representation of LZB in TSW is highly simplified. I don’t technical know how it calculates the max speed. I assume it is somehow hard coded into this specific consist you are driving. Not sure what it does when you build your own consist…
The "elephant in the room" question remains: why doesn't DTG provide detailed user manuals that contain information such as that supplied in this thread? Lacking such manuals, the tutorials included in the "Training Center" episodes could and should be expanded or augmented to include much more detailed information and practice than is currently made available.
The tutorials in the game are very sadly lacking and have been from the start. Now with the new scoring system that includes the use of safety systems each training module should be getting expanded to include those systems and how to activate/use them for each and every loco/unit. The fact that DTG have changed the scoring system but not the training modules will most likely end up with players who are new to the game giving up because they aren't getting the basic information they should be getting! It's like joining the army and being given a box of gun bits on your first day and being told to build the gun.
The pantos are linked to the different systems the Vectron can run on. You only have one panto to use, the others are for other systems, so there’s no front and back to choose from.
in the special delivery scenario, the third train has the front pantograph raised. I was wondering if there is a possibility to lower it and raise the rear pantograph. thank you for the answer
Hello, from my Side as well thank you for the guide. I do have a question regarding the brakes-logic of the vectron: I‘ve observed when braking with the trainbrake that after the release of the trainbrake ( main brake lever ) the direct brake ( „Lokbremse“ ) fills the brake cylinders of the Loco, although the trainbrake is already fully released ( brake-pipe / Hauptluftleitung filled with 5bar and pressure on display in blue colour ). This holds true especially in brake mode „G“ ( Güterzug ) and it takes quite a lot of time ( about 20-30secs ) for the cylinders to release. Furthermore, this seems to happen only when below a specific speed ( maybe 35km/h ) and makes braking the train, when a full stop is NOT intended, even more difficult. Is that a bug or a feature? If it‘s a feature: what is the logic behind it? Thank you in advance and best regards Toto
It sounds to me like the loco brake cylinders are filling again to compensate for the electric braking being released when you release the train brake. Especially in mode G, the brakes are supposed to take long to release. So if the electric braking force goes away, the loco fills the air cylinders to keep the overall braking force the same. When you reach slow speeds, the electric brakes become less effective and thus the loco blends in more and more air to compensate as well.
Athough electronically-activated brake systems are faster than purely pneumatic triple-valve systems, nonetheless it still takes an appreciable amount of time to refill the length of the brake pipe, which after all is still dependent on the compressor at one end. This is, as Lamplight says, even more the case in Mode G which is intentionally slowed down. I suppose the question is why you are using the main brake for speed corrections. This is the sort of thing best done with the dynamic brake alone, or with the independent loco brake.
This is because the third loco is facing forward with cab 2. With the Vectron you cannot simply select the pantograph, because only one of the four is intended for Germany, and this is the rear one respectively the outer one above Cab 2.
Any way to turn train lights in IC Coaches? MFD "beleuchtung" is bugged and is clearly hard to fix as usual.
Hi Toto, This effect is intended and prototypical. There are some cab rides which show the displays available on Youtube where you can see this effect in action. When applying the train brake (and the electrodynamic brake is cut-in - which it is by default) the locomotive automatically applies a proportional amount of dynamic brake effort. This brake effort will depend on the brake mode selected (G/P or R). As soon as the electrodynamic brake is applied the brake cylinders are released with a magnetic valve. NOTE: only the brake cylinders are vented, there is still pressure in a line between the magnetic valves and the distributor. This pressure is named "Cv" in most German manuals, basically control pressure (steuerdruck) so if at any point the electrodynamic brakes fail the brake cylinders are filled again. The rate at which the electrodynamic brake applies and releases will depend on the brake mode selected (G vs P/R) but in G it will be faster than the rate at which pneumatic-only braking would apply or release (15-20s vs 18-30s for application to full service and 15-20s vs 45-60s for release from full service pressure/level). Hence when you release the train brake in "G" the electrodynamic brake effort will vanish before the control-pressure for the brake cylinders has dropped to zero. With no electrodynamic brake effort but a non-zero "control pressure" the brake cylinders are filled back up to equalize with the control pressure.*** All of this is quite a complex system of pneumatic parts and electrical signals from a computer so while it was probably a convoluted explanation it is still very simplified I may also have made some mistakes in the explanation, air brake theory is already quite hard to understand with out the insane complexity of modern locomotives with electro-pneumatic brake valves (HSM). I share this picture from the ES64U2 manual since it is already accessible on the internet. The Cv line I'm talking about is the yellow line between "Steuerventil" (distributor) and the two red/black valves which are the electro-magnet valves between the Cv and the two DU (used to boost the brake pressure in "R"). *** Technically the Cv is not equalized with the brake cylinder pressure (C) because of the DU that can boost the pressure in C above the pressure in Cv (as is the case in brake mode "R"). So more correct would be to say that the Cv is equalized with the control/reference pressure in the DU (I think).
Great explanation, thanks! Do I get it correctly from the diagram that... the direct brake does not use electric impulses at all but sends a "competing" air pressure in between the electromagnetic valves and the DÜ's (that, if it is higher, overrides the pressure coming from the electromagnetic valves)? Is this also the case on the Vectron?
Yes, that is correct. It is basically (or equivalent to) a double check valve that combines the air from the direct brake line and the Cv-line from the distributor, with the highest pressure going to the DÜ. It works the same on the Vectron (although "upstream" the Vectron seems to be different since the AFB holding brake and manual applications are independent which to me implies some form of electrical memory rather than just "dumb" apply and release magnet valves). One thing that still confuses me of all the brake diagrams I've seen is that the combination of the direct brake and indirect brake air is done "upstream" of the DÜ which to me implies that in R-brake even the direct brake pressure gets boosted. But this is not the case IRL.
Is it possible that the boosting in the DÜ's doesn't have to do anything with the brake setting at all, but happens anyway (so that you do not have to have the full C pressure in your Cv circuit), and R-setting already increases the Cv pressure in the control valve? (As in the diagramm the GPR-selector is only connected to the control valve, not the DÜ's.) This would also allow the electromagnetic valves to blend the electrodynamic brakes into the "already-increased-for-R" Cv pressure, instead of boosting the Cv pressure after the blending happened?
I'm relatively sure that this is not the case and the DÜ are what is used for R-brake. That is how they are described in the manuals that I have (which I unfortunately cannot share, but the German wikipedia page about air brakes has more detail than the English page).
This is how the DÜ are shown in the more detailed diagrams I have Here R is the line from the high pressure auxiliary reservoir (which are connected to the main reservoir but behind a limiting valve that lowers the pressure to 7.2 bar, at least on the 101). Cv is the control pressure line described previously, C is the line to the brake cylinders (or technically first to wheel slide protection valves that can be opened to reduce the brake cylinder pressure if a slide is detected). The line called "0" is the exhaust to atmosphere. The way I understand these types of relay valves is that they basically act as a multiplier. Pressure_Out = Factor x Pressure_In or to use the names in the diagram: C = Factor x Cv, where Factor ranges in values to make C a pressure between 0 (all getting vented out "0") and the pressure in R.
Hm, I see.. this actually looks like on locomotives (unlike some cars) the pressure increase for the R-setting (or P2 setting) is created not in the control valve, but in those DÜ's. The DÜ's need some electrical connection then to actuate the pressure increase according to the speed, no? Most probably to the electronic wheel slip protection controller? So maybe this controller doesn't actuate the pressure increase if only the direct brake is used, so the C pressure doesn't get boosted then? (Apart from the fact that you would probaby rather not use the direct brake anyway at speeds fast enough to trigger the pressure increase.)
In the settings menu 1. click arrow key down (right of screen), until "PZB Mode" is highlighted 2. click number key "3" (below screen) to select "O" 3. click "Enter" key (right of screen) to confirm. Unlike with older locomotives in the game, this should work even with PZB already activated.
It wouldn't let me change it at one point but then I left the Vectron to shunt with a G6 and when I got back on the Vectron it would let me change it. I don't know what changed as it was practically the same behind me but with the addition of two passenger coaches and a dead 103 (on top of a 110 and 111 which were also powered down).
This sounds really hard to reproduce. I just realized, though, that the last step (confirming by pressing the enter key) doesn't seem necessary. The indicators on the MFD already change when selecting the PZB mode by pressing the corresponding number keys.
All correct. There are some blocks though, if you try to change the mode while running or while PZB is monitoring it won't accept the change. The settings page is semi-fictional. Most of the settings there are correct but PZB mode is not since IRL there is a special page where you input the train data and the PZB mode (and VMZ) is automatically selected (iirc). That sort of realistic input is outside the scope for a normal DLC though. More of something that could fit in an "Advanced" product if such was ever released
