There is a great service that needs to be in this game. Examine this timetable. Look at the first and last lines. What do you see? Look at the third line and the one third from the end (25.59). Now go to the seventh line, and seventh from the end (23.14). What do you see? The London to Reading Line connects from London Waterloo to Reading. Services at Reading can then continue to Oxford, Swindon, Bristol, or wherever they go. And it's true that adding this line by itself would not allow one to have the service I just showed you. However, the London to Reading Line with the PDL extension from New Maiden? THAT would allow for the missing part of the service. Let me explain. Portsmouth Direct Line starts at London Waterloo and goes to Clapham Junction. It continues to New Maiden and onwards to Woking and Portsmouth. The turn at New Maiden leaves the line on the Kingston Loop Line. That is where this DLC can pick it up. Stations on this loop include Norbiton, Kingston, and Hampton Wick all within a mile and a half of each other (note the timetable above comes in the other direction, I'm at 14.44 and going up here). Teddington follows a mile later, then Shucklegate Junction with the six and a half mile Shepperton Line (worth including that and its six additional stations). The last station on the loop is Strawberry Hill; Twickenham follows when we join the Waterloo to Reading Line proper. St. Margarets takes us to Richmond and the start of the Goblin Lines DLC (which we quickly leave). We then come to North Sheen, Mortlake, Barnes, Putney, and Wandsworth Town before completing the circle at Clapham Junction, and back to Waterloo. The option to extend to Kew Bridge (from Barnes) allows for a complete and total Goblin Lines merge (separate from the one with the PDL, I'd suggest) with the Waterloo to Reading Line, as well, meaning Richmond also needs to have a matching point of origin along this line. Also, use the PDL as a base for the route and keep the four stations from Clapham Junction to New Maiden (just update scenery). Keeping this branch in means a merge isn't even needed, and anyone inclined to merge the rest of the PDL or another line will have the same points of origin for that section regardless of the route merged. Using the existing line also means a chunk of the work is therefore already complete, it's just about completing the circle and any branches not yet represented in an official TS route, then merging magic can take place to link to other routes as people need them. And while it would be completely optional, branching to and updating London Victoria can be done as an offshoot project; you just did it in TSW2, so why not import the work here and allow a new Victoria? (Heck, we REALLY need a new London Bridge; let's have that eventually too, but not on this project.) One more thing: we need to visit one other terminus at Windsor & Eton Riverside through Wraysbury, Sunnymeads, and Datchet Staines to Eton Central Line (another nearby station connects to Slough on the GWML and I'm shocked it wasn't added to that line back then, so I'll have to check WML for it). So to summarize, the idea is: Waterloo to Reading Line Kingston Loop Line including a segment of the Portsmouth Direct Line (Kingston Loop service) Shepperton Line Staines to Windsor Line Hounslow Loop Line to Kew Bridge (Goblin Lines) and beyond to reconnect to the line after Hounslow at Feltham Junction The service pictured is run by a Class 455 operated by South Western Railway. This one used cars 455739 and 455705. We have this. All we need is the route and a version for the DLC. Also, if the PDL section is not incorporated, it's important that the points of origin at Clapham (in particular) and east match the PDL so that merging is super easy. That way, the circular service becomes a thing. However, it's such a neat idea that I think it's worth doing your own batch of scenarios for the circle and this include that part of the PDL. As for other roling stock on the line to Reading: SWR Class 458 is the main purveyor of the line, and an excuse to build a new train; maybe Armstrong Powerhouse can be involved in that so their fans are potentially happy with the result, too? Class 450 is sometimes seen, such as this service from London Waterloo to Woking via Chertsey, and I think it's the same one as the PDL so can probably be duplicated (that's one done!); it's also seen on services on the main line and branches I mentioned the Class 455 already, and I think we have this one in the 455/8, so I'd recommend pairing the DLC with the route for scenario use (just bundle it together); the train is also seen at Shepperton and over at Reading, so it's essential Class 456 supposedly runs to Shepperton and Eton Riverside, though this seems to be a dated service that users can create themselves (the 456 Armstrong EP does exist as well) and does not need to be included with the route unless the next suggestion is a problem... Class 707, such as this London Waterloo to Eton Riverside service; we might have to use the 456 as a replacement for now if we aren't going to build a 707 Occasional overnite freight services; this one looks neat By the way, I'm not concerned about the Reading point of origin here. It could be a great merge with the Railways of Devon and Cornwall providing the types of service seen along Just Trains' Western Mainlines (assuming a long service from Waterloo exists to Exeter or even Bristol), but I know you don't try to satisfy third-party content and thus are not going to look up its point to match to the route. Someone will have to play with it if that gets merged in. And if the services don't exist...then yeah, Reading is a good ending point anyway and no merge is required. I think this circular service would be a great addition to the game. As such, the Waterloo to Reading Line and Kingston Loop Line, plus the Shepperton Line, would be a high value DLC to add to the game, and even higher value with the original PDL from Clapham Junction to New Maiden added on to provide some great scenario activity along the circle in addition to services to Reading. It would be foolhardy to not take on this project.
I would add the NDL as extension like what they did with GOBLIN line. Would it be set before the closing of Wokingham Signal Box in 2024?
I would imagine a GOBLIN extension would be, if only because the route is already before 2024. So it would have to match. But the new line? Anyone's guess, depends if they model it to use the 456 instead of the 707 for instance.
This is a fantastic piece of freeware and a great place for me to use my collection of Southern locomotives, EMUs and Bulleid/Maunsell carriages as well as Pullman rakes. Cyclone - Regarding the modern day route, I am currently trying to create a modern day version (project where I am learning how to route create) or rather a pre-redevelopment of Twickenham and Reading era which will be from Clapham Junction (I refuse to model as far as Waterloo) to Reading and Windsor and including the Hounslow Loop, Kingston Loop (as far as New Malden) and Shepperton Branch. Bare in mind, it will be very very low quality (I am unskilled, impatient and mainly doing it for my own use) and will take a very long time. If I ever get that far, I will post it on Steam Workshop but only in instalments and it will be very much n00b level creation (scenery from cab view only).
Hopefully someone is able to help you with modelling Waterloo. It might be nice to have that full journey back in that time era.
Being honest CBA. This will take years to do assuming I haven't given up. Doing Twickenham area is bad enough (my start point). Having said that I've laid all the track minus Wokingham to Reading. I'm not somebody who sits and spends hours playing at a time, so I would happily do Waterloo to Clapham in PDL if I was that bothered about doing Waterloo to Reading for example (being honest I've done that stretch enough times).
Waterlloo to Reading Line ought to in fact be a DLC, complete with the part that forms the circular Waterloo-Waterloo service and that part of the PDL added to it. No other reason to have those segments other than to make that service possible. Branch to Windsor and Eton Riverside should be included, as well as the line to Shepperton from Strawberry Hill which is only a six mile branch extending off the Kingston Loop Line, a major part of the suggested circular service path and unlikely to be visited any other time. PDL can be included with the route up to the Kingston Loop Line and potentially even up to Berrylands for scenario building purposes for creative people. This gives a much desired line plus the circle through Clapham Junction. In addition, if Danny were to be inspired to merge that route with the South London to Brighton route for a huge megaroute, that would then open up Waterloo to Brighton direct for more scenario options. Waterloo to London Bridge, maybe even add Blackfriars for more scenario creation options. Though the requirement list would be getting too big for his liking at that point, and stability could be an issue. Hence why I think Waterloo in this route is a good idea. And yes, I did post a suggestion for this showcasing the trains used on the route. If backdated, the 456 could appear instead of something like the 707, which is there today. Frankly, I would like to see the 700s in the game, and we need a Thameslink with the 700 itself. Good excuse to finally build Tattenham Corner, too!
I'm not a big fan of these mega joined route proposals. Apart from a rail tour or a freight service, who needs both Reading, Richmond, Blackfriars etc connected? Also I lack the patience and time to do huge routes end to end. I see people propose having Londong and Glasgow all merged up and genuinely wonder who would actually do it in one go...
I'm hopeful that my DLC idea just includes the needed segments of line so that merges are not necessary. Otherwise we'd have a full merge of the PDL just to do the circle service, and that assumes the loop line is included (it may not be).
Going to bring this back up to the top. If DTG can learn from their mistakes on the 700, a 707 becomes possible with this route. Going to change something I said in the TP as well; the Reading point of origin, if possible, should match the Southwestern Expressways route to Reading, but this may or may not be possible. Would help with the route merging people's work, though, in putting huge networks out there (provided they run on the PC LOL).
A Class 707 add-on for the existing Waterloo to Woking section of the PDL would be good, if not with a new route such as this. Not sure why a merge with Southwestern Expressways would be beneficial, no services go between both routes in real life (except maybe as a diversion or rail tour, where use would be limited to those types of scenarios only).
You forgot freight but I have not studied that in detail. Though you're right, never a point to making a full network when most trains stay in a specific area. An example of this is the track north of Wrexham General, which is a single isolated back and forth service with nothing else along the path as the northern end (Bidston?) connects to the Metrolink while Wrexham General itself connects to Shrewsbury from Chester and makes more sense from a long distance driving perspective as I believe one Birmingham to Holyhead service uses this route.
Not sure if much freight goes between these two routes either. I would imagine not since most westbound freight goes via the GWML using the Acton chord linking up to the North London Line. Otherwise any freight going to the southern region would have to reverse at Clapham or Redhill. Saying that I have seen freight go through Clapham Junction in the direction of Reading in real life. Bidston to Wrexham services use the Wrexham Central station which branches off from Wrexham General, where most of the north to south Welsh services run via, reversing at Chester from the North Wales Coast line, then continuing south via Wrexham General to Shrewsbury. They can also run via Crewe then back across to Shrewsbury without needing to reverse at Chester, although I think most services going via Crewe from South Wales actually go onto Manchester Piccadilly via Stockport/Wilmslow. Again not sure about the Birmingham International services, I think they run down the WCML via Stafford sometimes instead of going via Wrexham/Shrewsbury but without dredging through years of historic timetables I can't be certain how common those routings are.
Freight traffic for Southampton either arrives from Imperial Wharf or Wandsworth Road directions and travels along the Windsor/Reading lines as far as Virginia Water before heading down the Chertsey line towards the SWML just east of Woking. AFAIK there is no connect between the SWML and the BML (the only direct links between the SWML itself and the old LBSCR network are at Wimbledon, Guildford and Havant) and the WLL. I believe it is possible through a back and forth zig zag route though Clapham Yard... Hence all freight from the central and eastern sections of the Southern Region (i.e. the daily gypsum trains from Mountfield to Southampton Docks) and plenty of the freight from the WLL (the ones that don't go via the GWML to Reading and then Basingstoke) must go through Staines and Virginia Water. Historically a lot of freight would also transfer from Wimbledon to the Windsor Lines via East Putney (as the Windsor Lines have direct links with the WLL and the rest of the Southern Network).
