Train Sim World 3 Wcml: London To Birmingham Via Watford Junction

To me anyone that uses that word "true" is basically talking rot.
A railway line is a railway line and whether you use it for intercity or not isn't really relevant to me.
And let's face it, the Kent mainline (ie a proper mainline by name) has NO intercity connectivity, but is still a "true" main line

No, I found a comparable route that is "the right length and complexity for TSW"...

Nope. Nothing "must"...

The problem is that all railway lines would be of some interest somewhere. Personally I wouldn't see the need for intercity green light specials and would prefer a dockyard or large container port. Something with some actual play required (rather than press go then watch you tube for an hour listening to the DINGs from AWS as nothing happens on the tracks between two large cities...

My only "issue" is that the line is longer than DTG have created for a line that isn't purely high speed, so the complexity is greater than the long lines we've had before

 

WCML and ECML are in demand, yes. GEML, less so. It's only got one "popular" thread and even then it seems to just be bumped by 4/5 members.

"Must" is the wrong word. No route "must" come over from TSC.

It isn't really.
Also, the Flying Scotsman ran on the ECML, not the WCML.

 

You're probably right.

I only really said that because those two stations are already in the game.

 

Yeah, unfortunately there's 80 odd miles of track and 23 stations between the two that we don't have (along with almost any of the train assets we'd need to make a good fist of the route)
So would be good to have, but unlikely in practice

 

We can dream, can't we?

 

Northampton to Birmingham just seems like a bad idea, realistically speaking I can place a few pounds on it, if the west coast mainline gets added it is going to be the Trent Valley. London - Birmingham is an absolute behemoth of a route, the passenger services alone are going to be over 2000 services, not even mentioning freight which might take minimum 500. I don’t know how people would take it if TSW didn’t get the full west coast mainline south , but honestly the sheer size would make this route take months if not years to create, not to mention timetables, optimisation etc. The WCMLOS is also quite good, albeit long, but has no-where near the sheer size and complexity of the west coast… and don’t even get me started on major locations. The depots around the Willesden - Wembley area was an absolute frame destroyer in TSC, with a few placed consists, now imagine TSW, where if there’s no kind of buzz it’s not going to go down well, then you have other stations like Watford, which is quite a large station, and further north rugby, and Birmingham as well. The WCMLs is a very very big route, not just length wise but passenger and freight wise. That route if not optimised properly will be an absolute hellhole for gen 8 consoles, as well as layers and rolling stock. But I would love to see it, and it would do quite well, as this route is heavily suggested, BUT if it isn’t done well a repeat of the TSC launch will happen, and pricing as well. It’s just such a big route to develop, when you realise that it’s TSW and more detail is going to have to go in than say TSC

 

I highly doubt there are 2000 passenger services on London-B'ham, sure, there's loads but I doubt it's near that. BML has about 1,400 playable and that includes depot runs, and all of the lines that branch off at Clapham, Croydon, etc. Also, includes 2-part services, which there would be hardly any of on WCML. I would have it about 1,000, maybe a little less.
Possibly closer to SEHS's 578.
Unless you're including AI, then fair enough.

As for freight, I would suggest 100, 200 if extremely generous, would be realistic. Not 500. Just seems like an arbitrary number you've pulled.

I would say anywhere between 600 and 1,200 would be reasonable. I dont think 2,500 (unless including Bakerloo AI) is possible at all.

 

It’s up to 2000 mate, If you count overground, underground, avanti, LNWR, the WMR and Southern, as well as freight it’s definitely up to 2000, with a bulk of the services from LNWR, the stoppers from London - Tring there is about 4 tph (2 stopping - 2 semi-fast), Then you have the Birmingham semi - fasts as well which I’m not necessarily sure about, you have the North Wales Coastals, the Wrexham services, the Wolverhampton services, the Crewe semi fasts, the Crewe fasts (Avanti and LNWR), the Manchester and Liverpool fasts/semifasts which will take the biggest portion of avanti services, the London - Scotland services as well as Freight, Layers, etc, not to mention ECS and two part scenarios, the timetable will be as much, if not more than BML, if you factor in the variables, I said 500 freight because I’m not sure about how many freight locos are on the WCML, but I know it’s a lot as the WCML carries a bulk of the UK’s and even Europes freight, so there is going to be a lot. If it’s not at least 1500, then it’s going to be more because there is a lot of movements on the WCML especially around the Southern area until Milton Keynes and the northern area around Birmingham new street

 

I'll do the maths on it, it for sure isn't that high (realistically, we aren't getting every TOC).
Not doing this to just prove a point, would give extra value to the suggestion.

 

I make no apology for advocating strongly for my local route and it's had a number of popular threads over the years. So many in fact that my own draft suggestion for the route has been sitting gathering dust for years because I didn't feel it was needed.

If popularity by users of TSC are relevant to the TSW2 community then I'd say ECML South and it's various versions is by far the most popular AC electric route in the South East. GEML probably second given that it's been in TSC for 10 years now. WCML South has it's performance issues and is also no better than the freeware route. I don't have access to sales figures, natch.

 

I have mentioned all the TOC that we would get LNWR, WMR, Avanti WC and Southern, LU and LO

 

Would?
You mean Could, right?
You'd be lucky to get 3 of them. And I'm not counting AI in my above estimate.

 

We have WMR, Southern and Underground, so the Overground, LNWR and AWC would be 3 new operators right?

 

Again, not counting AI. So put a strike through WMR and Underground.

AWC has the complex (to make) Pendolino, LNWR has the 350. You'd be really lucky to have the 710 thrown in for Overground. Also, Southern would require a whole new class of 377. Wouldn't really be worth it.

 

390, 350, 710 base trains, DLC 730, 805/807 (when they enter service) that wouldn’t be a bad route at all

 

Surely 221s would be better DLC as it wouldn't mean an era shift of the route post release. Also 3 new trains is very unlikely, even two is pushing recent boundaries.

 

It’s very unlikely yes, but for a route like the WCMLs it is essential

 

Just won't happen though.

 

It could happen, depending on dtg

 

It won't because it's far too much.
That's why I don't see WCMLS happening at all.

 

Not sure WHY it's a bad idea, and again with statements of fact. There's nothing to say "it is going" to be anything at all

Absolutely up to 2000
Just did the maths and at Watford Junction (so including all LO, LNWR, Avanti, Southern and Freight) it's 910 services today
That includes ECS and freight that pass through the station, but also includes the branch off to St Albans so the main and DC lines would be slightly less than that

Luckily there's very little differentiation in LO and LNWR traffic through the station but the Pendos would be an issue with them having 7 different carriage types to make up one train

 

also forgot about layers, layering with the AI, or Layered Underground will be another handful of services, as there is a very high frequency underground service inbetween Queen’s Park and Harrow & Wealdstone, as well as railtours, etc. a route this big would be at least like 20-30gb, and would not be able to come to gen 8 because of memory, as gen 8 is already struggling with the 1400 services BML has, not to mention a 2000 service WCML with a Northampton branch and all the depots, it would be a frame rate butchering, for gen 9 It will just about cope with it, but the route will probably be scaled down because we won’t get all the rolling stock (i.e the soon to be retired 319s,730s,805,807, the cross country 221)


And the Northampton branch isn’t a good idea because people will complain just how they complained about GWE, and the nature of the WCML isn’t really for short routes, unless you talk about branches

 

Unless it's Glasgow to London people will cry out that it's too short. If you have too small a timetable people will cry out it's too quiet. If you have too many trains and the game slows down people will cry that it's too bloated. You getting the idea?
In other words DTG need to do what works for the majority of people, rather than addressing the "needs of the vocal" and we already know that BML is too much for consoles to handle with too many extras, so the WCML (especially in the South) would be much the same

Even with 16 trains an hour for most of the day and some allowance for winding up and down at each end of the day I make it 276 LUL services, so we're just under 1200 services a day. You're still 800 over unless you're counting all diverging services at Birmingham, Rugby etc and the freight coming over from Felixstowe that goes up the Trent Valley lines, but I doubt that's 800 services a day either

 

I respect the optimism but you realistically aren't getting all of that.

 

True, people will cry that it is too short, you can’t please everyone (I 100% agree) but London - Birmingham or at least London to Rugby, or even the Trent valley would probably tick a lot of peoples boxes, I 100% see where you are coming from, and yes I am counting everything, all the Manchester, Liverpool, Crewe, Glasgow, North Wales Services are being counted, as well as the services that go via Birmingham New Street up north, that is a whole extra handful of services, along with the 323s that will probably get layered in between Coventry and new street, those altogether are at least another few hundred services

 

Realistically, yes it’s very unlikely DTG are going to add in a route this big at this point in time, I know I agree whatsoever, but If gen 8 gets cut off which is going to happen at some point I suspect, there is a likelihood of getting a WCMLs

 

Gen 8 getting cut off makes no difference to it's feasibility.

 

Well there will be three big routes coming in September from DTG. We will probably find out in a month or so. Or within a month.

 

It would probably more of an incremental process to get WCML South, it could happen one day but I would suspect a few years hence, it took ten years or so for it to appear in TSC.

If they made a Birmingham area route first with the 350, I think Birmingham to Crewe has been suggested in the past. Then maybe a Avanti Voyager might get released as DLC, then that could leave just the Pendolino to be made for a WCML South featuring three items of rolling stock plus the Electrostar, 323 and the 66 layering in of course.

Then other trains like the Overground 378 could then follow as DLC.

However I think we are some way from this happening. I would love to see it though, preferably with AC Electrics but I wouldn't object to a modern day version.

I think if the WCML comes it will be a less busy section further north, would love to see Preston to Carlisle as it is a decent run and very scenic but it would be pushing it mileage wise compared to the usual route length.

 

Worth pointing out that DTG don't have a known LNR license
(Inb4 someone says WMR license = LNR)