Wcml South - Not Good Enough

You could be right there. There might be some agreement in place between them and we'll never know.

 

You know what, at the end of the day it does not matter who built it, what matters is that it isn't as polished as it should be, whether it is a flagship release or not it is a significant drop of quality from a product DTG are releasing. This is what is concerning and needs resolving.

 

The pan in use was the third carriage from the back. I thought that was the correct position.

 

The fact the SB line is now seen to be a reasonable standard of quality, by comparison WCML has become a facepalm meme. Chances are the German route will also probably be pretty good if past ones are anything to go by, so what the heck happened to the UK flagship route in TSW5? Don’t want to use the ‘R’ word as there’s no proof, but they’ve really dropped the ball by not allowing enough development time, despite the truncated section of the line we are getting.

 

If it’s the trailing panto then it’s correct

 

I think it's fairly considerable DTG doesn't want to admit any wrongdoings for now being they could be try to maximise their market value in relation to pre-ordering etc. Might explain why they said they likely make a statement until after early release.

 

The night lighting at WCML and SB are like night and day (pun intended).

DTG, you know what you need to do with WCML.

 

surely DTG aren't stupid enough to let Rivet create a whole route for them? I can understand if they helped a bit on some things but like surely? Even if its some bits the WCML does wreak a bit of Rivet on places which is a real shame

 

The actual timetable from Euston (not including ECS runs and arrivals) is at 20tph

 

So the preview stream said 218 services for the Overground, and there are how many overground trains a day? 150/160? Obviously some extra depot runs. Then what is going wrong in the preview as it clearly shows missing services...

(time stamp 2:26:07 on the preview stream)

 

Do you ever look at the positives? I said that this route is better than WCML. it isn’t as eyesoreing to look at, and it at least doesn’t have any timetable issues.

 

There is a lot of speculation flying around about did DTG or Rivet create wcml? EA done it, no it was Codematers? It makes absolutely zero difference who created in the respect that, if DTG has created or they wish to take the credit they created the route or lead us to believe, then the buck still stops with DTG because they have taken ownership of that product and it is down to them to quality check it (quality control he says laughing). If you buy a brand new BMW and the lights stop working (usually indicators), you go back to BMW and they inform you it's not their fault because it is a unit created by Bosch and you need to go speak to Bosch, you think they do that?

No, BMW will take ownership of any problem that arises with their car and they will have the responsibility to put that right, which will probably involve BMW going back to Bosch and dealing with them to fix the problem. Same applies to DTG, they have not told us wcml was created by Rivet, so they have taken ownership of it, their problem. And by the sounds of it from all the faults players on the forum have found with wcml, it will be the first unrelease route that needs a remaster before it has even launched. There I was thinking DTG would fix Harrow Wealdstone station, I am just gonna go outside and kick myself around the garden for thinking such silly thoughts.

 

I checked the rivet forum and there are posts asking rivet about if they had any input on this route, there is no denial, make of that what you will.

 

Despite the bad lighting issues.
Despite the timetable issues.
Despite the missing OHLE gantries
Despite the awful running 390 sounds, and I mean awful, sounds nothing like it
Despite the PIS issues - really!?! in TSW5!!!??
Despite the missing suspension, not that I'm bothered, didn't like it on the 390

At least we have............................... working lifts! Yaaaaaaaaay!

Oh and what was with the in game sound cutting out every few seconds on stream, I hope that was just the streaming software, seriously couldn't be putting up with that - would deffo be a showstopper for me that!

 

That is my main concern. It is a showstopper for me as well. I found it irritating on the stream, I certainly couldn’t play like that.

Both previews have suffered from it and there was no comment to deny it was the game. Not even from an Ambassador or Beta Tester who had played it.

I really hope it was just the stream.

 

The sound stuttering and occasional rubber banding is a long standing issue which they really do seem incapable of programming out. As said, total immersion killer.

 

Actually its:

Despite the timetable issues.
Despite the missing OHLE gantries
Despite the awful running 390 sounds, and I mean awful, sounds nothing like it
Despite the PIS issues - really!?! in TSW5!!!??
Despite the missing suspension, not that I'm bothered, didn't like it on the 390

Im still preordering the deluxe because I must have my train fix!

 

That's really going to send a strong message to DTG to stop their short changing practices isn't it.

 

Each to their own, hope you enjoy it, but I'm waiting to see how it develops from both DTG and mainly the Mod community, may pick it up later depending how/if it improves.

 

Look on the bright side, everyone. Wait two or three years and the remaster will sort it.

 

That will hold DTG accountable, that will teach them NOT to do it again. They produce and launch an unfinished product and you still gonna buy it? Errr?

 

But will thou?

 

That is the value of hype over reality. It is how PR machines work these days, pump people up, get them hyped to the point where they cannot help themselves.

 

I was being sarcastic my friend

 

Hang on a minute, no one is pulling the wool over anyone's eyes here. The reason this thread exists is because there's been a preview stream (which they didn't have to do) and, for various reasons, some people didn't like what they saw. Vern has already preordered and cancelled deluxe (twice!). There is a lot of information out there, plus plenty of experience over the lifetime of TSW, so surely people can make a relatively informed decision? At worst, wait and see how other people get on (most of the active participants in this thread will probably buy it anyway) and then decide. Who cares if you get in on the 12th, the 17th or even the 9th of December?! There needs to be a sense of proportion and this thread isn't it. As usual, it has turned into a web of conspiracy theories and people feeling like DTG - or is it Rivet? - has deliberately gone out of its way to destroy their lives in some way.

Inevitably, I will now be attacked for defending DTG (I'm not) but, for the record, I will not be purchasing any TSW5 content until I know more.

 

Not getting caught a third time. Anyhow Steam yellow carded me for too many refunds (!) so next few purchases need to be keepers. Well Arkansas for ATS seems to be shaping up nicely. Just a shame Run 8 isn’t on Steam. Also looks likely there will be a big transport related sale coming up in the next few days and there’s always something to add to TSC (maybe the Florida route, as that region seems anathema to DTG in TSW). But bar the free update, TSW5 really can wait now until a nice 50% off the content and maybe some decent core fixes.

 

Sounds like a balanced and reasonable view to me!

 

Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking!

 

Just one final word on this subject i have been waiting for yonks for a TSW version of WCML-South & have to say on this occasion DTG have done a very good job on it i just can,t wait to play it Well-done DTG

 

DTG...Hype...I don't know what you mean? DTG never do hype do they

 

And I thought I was impulsive lol
DTG have now just 6 days to convince me the deluxe preorder is worth keeping. Who the hell do I think I am? No-one important, but nevertheless like many who frequent these forums, a DTG customer from the very start (Rail Simulator). I have shown them support with my wallet for years and this is the first time I am seriously considering refunding a new version of the game.

 

AH yes the R word, I was saying to Yorkshirelad that if 'R' are involved in it and we can only speculate but it does seem like one of their products I think the community should Hammer DTG for such a woeful decision.

 

Well the irony is as I’ve said, not so much the content as the core which is restraining me from handing over the £54 to DTG. Could probably have taken WCML as is, with decent lighting and more than one save slot. And yes will this will be the first time I’ve sat on the fence, just watching the reports and reviews come in from those with first hands on experience, to make an informed decision come Christmas or train fest next year.

 

Like that, I have been buying TSW for years, but after TSW4 and what went on with that I swore I wouldn't buy another TSW. You certainly don't buy the launch edition because it just simply isn't ready, maybe DTG might fix SOME bits by next year? If you aim to pick up a copy of TSW5 when TSW7 is out you might be ok? Maybe?

 

Anyone else find it a shame we ain't getting the Special liveries with the 390, The Pride one and the Climate Change one? Considering they been with Avanti for awhile should of been done. Also no name plates as well apparently.

 

I'm not sure DTG are the only entity around here who could be accused of hyperbole.

 

Compared to SB, WCML is nowhere near an acceptable standard in my view. Too many compromises, which just kills any enthusiasm for the route.

Although SB is a much stronger route, but not without its own flaws, I’m still not going to pre-order. The sound issues and the glaringly obvious issues with SB (flying cars a major one) won’t allow me to part with my money just yet. DTG has the feedback and the means to do what is necessary to deliver a polished product - the ball is in its court now.

 

Another unfortunate compromise.

 

And, so is Greece for us ETS2 fans, both DLC's are in my wish list.

 

Glad they are leaving political statements out of the game to be honest.

 

I agree to some extent. The only thing I disagree on is, if it is Rivet, even though DTG are selling this route as 'one of their own' for now, we need to acknowledge the Rivet element of it early on as they have a very poor reputation for not fixing faults at all, or at best releasing a single small update/patch and essentially abandoning add ons there after. It's concerning as any post patch improvements would then solely rely on Rivet to do them and that should be a huge concern to players as Rivet are notorious for never fixing big issues and abandoning routes.

My main concern is, if, it was Rivet that were responsible for building the route is there reputation for shoddy work and not even bothering with bug fixes or fixing problems at all. You're right DTG should be held responsible to some extent as they are aware of these issues and if it transpires that Rivet did create WCML, and were trusted to do so, that would leave a few questions. A) Why was a company with such poor feed back and evident poor quality products allowed to build one of the flagship routes? B) Why has DTG taken the route back and thought this was acceptable to sell to the public in the current state? C) Who is monitoring the quality control of in house and outsourced work and allowing this type of work to pass off as okay? Why isn't there a procedure to make sure all the work being released meets a standard criteria before being sold to the public?

So you are right it is down to DTG to take responsibility for the quality control of products, and if it is marketed as one of their own products, the buck needs to stop at them as the publisher.

At the moment this is nothing more then speculation, but as I've mentioned its a personal belief that Rivet have something to do with this as this has all of their hallmarks so far.

Next week will bring a few more answers, so we shall see...

 

Promise you everything and deliver you less, anything for a fast buck, but that only works some many times.

 

If you got xbox it's on gamepass on release anyway I will more than likely get it that way

 

That will come as extra dlc at some point. No doubt.

 

I’m sure that there is an improved build for release but what concerns me is that DTG cannot be bothered to placate or even reassure all of us punters. They were more than happy to show an inferior or unfinished product on stream but have not come forward with any answers that may persuade those of us on the fence.
So until DTG stop treating us with contempt I won’t be spending anymore money with them (and I have £2000 worth of TSW content!)

 

DTG have claimed or led us to believe it is their work, they have taken ownership of the route and its problems. I know you think next week more answers will come out, but DTG can't back pedal, blame or throw Rivet under the bus as it is not professional and it would refect badly on DTG. So, back to DTG where it stays.

 

Good point tbf. I like the Climate Change one.

 

I have the pre-order still as WCMLS is currently my local line, but my attitude towards the franchise is becoming more negative. I buy less DLC / wait for sales a lot more and worry that we are getting towards 'shovelware' status. There are possibilities with TSW5, the Route Hopping stuff could allow networks to be built up over time as JT look to be doing with WCML over Shap tying in with BPO but will it be utilised properly or will it become another forgotten development stub, like Steam? Are they ever going to fix the promised suspension? Wasn't that something that was promised for TSW4?

As for the stuff saying the build used on stream wasn't final, I've seen plenty pre-release streams for games where that's been said and there are very few that DO make any changes prior to release. I'd be surprised if what we got on release was very much different from what we saw even taking into account any Day 1 patch.

EDIT : I think it was the bungled release of WCMLS on TSC that killed my enthusiasm for that.

 

A livery acknowledging that LGBTQ+ folks and Climate Change exist aren't political statement. I will say that I think the older Virgin 'Flowing Silk' rainbow livery looked way better than Avanti's efforts but considering DTG hyped up that they can represent the whole fleet but they ignored nameplates and the 2 aforementioned units, I'd say it is misleading to say the whole fleet as it is in 2024 is represented.