West Coast Main Line South Improvements

Nice mate, I've been tinkering with fusing the new DTG MTU cab with the original Kuju model AP MTU EP packs, once it's finished, I'll make it public. Not something that can be charged for really, breaks all sorts of terms, but it is a great thing to give DTG, AP and the player base, and they all mutually benefit from such a thing.

Where is your patch available? I'd like to check it out please.

 

I would hardly say it's gleeful. Just lots of understandably very frustrated disappointed players - reasonably scratching their heads as to how it happened. I would agree some of the YouTube 'superstars' have pushed the criticism too far, for their own personal gain/agenda (whatever it is), which is not particularly nice to see.

Do you actually have the route, & have played it yourself? I get the feeling perhaps not. If you have bought it, are you genuinely enjoying it?

Having browsed through all the various main TS forums, I've noted a whole two people kinda 'happy' with this route. One member here that appears to have fairly low expectations, & another elsewhere that seemed more interested in the potential use of assets - but the latter player did note the route was a bit better if you used other driving stock (to that included with the route) and played QD without any AI trains. Would such restricted use be acceptable to you? But that seems to be the sum of players happy. Perhaps there are hundreds of people merryingly playing it, that don't visit the forums - possible I guess.

I did buy the route & I desperately regret it - try as hard as I may, it's not giving me any pleasure just lots of frustration. I can't get a refund though, because I didn't buy through the Steam store. I bought a Steam key elsewhere & did so because I could save £3 in the process. I thought it ok to do so because foolishly I was gullible enough to trust DTG had (after all their many recent promises) picked-up their game. Especially after their sticking their hands-up with TSW2 a couple of months ago, & promising no such repeats. At least I don't play that game.

I 'skimped' on the buy because I have a very low income (not of my choice) and every penny counts. So in recent years this was a big buy for me, a rare gaming treat & the first of 2020. So it's rather disappointing, it's now turned a bit sour. I'm a big grown 'boy', & give it a few days will go back to my existing TS content & move on (finger's burned & finally finally finally lesson learnt i.e. always wait for the initial reviews to come in before buying a DTG software release). Now imagine you're a young kid, & that was your birthday present, and/or you'd been saving your pocket money a long time in anticipation of getting (would should have been) a great route. Perhaps it was a Steam gift you received, making refund very difficult. So yes, no-one died, but for many it is a big let down, & they have every right to express their dissatisfaction so long as it is polite.

I'm not too keen on the apologists for condoning DTG's shoddy work. Surely it only encourages the studio to release further poor quality products. Because if no-one kicks up a stink, that's very likely what will happen (if they possibly think they can get away with it). Unfortunately such poor workmanship (although rarely to this level) has regularly reared its ugly head, & sadly there's a track record of infrequently putting it right afterwards. I've often noted some of the moneyed brigade on another key forum seem to be regular offenders in condoning such poor addon releases, as often they're not actually interested in playing any of the default scenarios, or sometimes even the route. They chiefly want the new assets for new personal route builds or scenario creations. That's fine, however, that's not going to work for the average player/customer who perfectly reasonably does want to enjoy the default DLC release as is. £40 isn't petty cash for everyone.

I truly hope your optimism & confidence in DTG to patch the route in the coming month or two is rewarded. Finger's tightly crossed - it would be really nice to see the route come good; as I'm sure was intended by DTG at the outset. Cheers.

 

It's here on this site: https://sites.google.com/view/thetrainsimcorner/downloads/cg

I'll have to get it uploaded elsewhere, but frankly I can't be bothered. I'm working on a further update to fix some of the issues with the liveries but frankly I'm sick to the back teeth of developing stuff for TS at the moment haha.

 

Make it a profession And thanks for that mate, I'll check it out.

 

Yeah Bletchley does look recognisable. I used the cam to freely move around. The booking-on point,, depot, carriage sidings are all there. Even the staff car park... needs more potholes in the tarmac and fancier cars

I have a teeny request for the patch. Could you get Boris the Bletchley depot cat to wander around the carriage sidings building? Oh pretty please

Something odd happened when I tried a quick drive from Bletchley to Wolverton, on the Down Slow. Weirdly at Milton Keynes, it sent me into platform 1 the wrong direction and from then down the Up line to Wolverton. I don't mind faults with scenery but the junction/signal/operation needs a bit of attention too.

 

I've done a lot of work on my copy of the route-

I drive quick drive only so these work for me.

Deleted all the ambient sound spheres from Euston to Milton Keynes (they eat up memory for no good reason IMO)
Deleted all the Avanti Liveried 221 and 390 preloads
Created new Virgin Trains preloads using the old S9BL Pendolino Reskin and the DTG North Wales Coast 221s.

Getting very decent framerates now- 20+ in heavy urban areas, 23-24fps in Euston and 30fps at Milton Keynes. Its still not fantastic but its not the slideshow as it was in that frankly embarassing first look video on youtube.

DTG if you are reading this- trim the fat from this route. Ambient sounds are a total waste of resources and add to the workload on the game engine- at the end of the day- all the trains on this route are in sealed cabs with Air Conditioning- you wont hear the ambient outside sounds from a sealed cab with air conditioning in real life.

 

Some people play in outside cam exclusively, not everyone drives as a driver, some treat the game as a virtual train set. DTG have to cater for them too.

 

Well some more points I discovered today whilst making scenarios. Why is there a serious lack of way points between Milton Keynes and Wolverton and Rugby? There is nothing to select to make the train drive on the left and it randomly routes the train to the right and then as I get to the north of Wolverton. It routes me back onto the left through the 15mph sidings and it was through luck that I didn't come flying off the track? Another problem when coming off the slow line and onto the fast north of Wolverton is that you are routed on the RIGHT hand side on the line and there is no way to route the player train onto the LEFT side because there is no markers. Now here is a question. Can I add markers to correctly add the way points so that this doesn't happen in the scenario editor? (If so, where are they located in the tools section). Or will this be addressed in the upcoming update? I can add them myself in the route builder but I would be unable to release the scenarios on the workshop because the route has no way points on those sections. This route gets worse the more I play it as I cannot route trains properly on my customised scenarios and there is barely any marked sidings at Wembley train yard either which kills any opportunity to make custom freight scenarios. I think I will switch back to the freeware version which is better and more usable for freight scenarios at this current time. I cannot make any decent freight scenarios at this current time .

 

You can add track markers in the scenario editor. They will only be for that scenario.

As far as ambient sounds, they do add to atmosphere, I do drive from the cab but sometimes like to "get out" at stations. Also I would be making lots of scenarios using AC electric stock and older EMU's to I would notice the lack of sounds!

 

One immediate improvement I'd like, is to have WCML South back in my Quick Drive route options. It has removed itself. I can drive the 1 class 390 career scenario on the route no problem.

My intention was to make a video featuring the route, however, what I'm uploading next is a look at other DTG and 3rd party routes given the same weather conditions as the scenario described above. Starts off in the new 390 on the WCML, runs through some locomotives and routes, finishing with the 395 at Faversham.

I think it's important to show off these runs, as it gives a good idea of the state of play - it feels to me, as though the engine has been tidied up a little, not by much, but there is something there that gives an even better feel of flow. On the cusp side of that, TS is now presenting me with moments where everything freezes for maybe 2-5 seconds, then continues as normal.

That aside, the next upload does go to show that it's not all rough rides and slideshows on TS, and that it really can look and feel great. I'm hopeful that whatever updates happen, they'll fix my Quick Drive WCML South problem.

 

I'm sorry, but it was terrible, which is why I got a refund. Why else would I do that? I've never applied for a Steam refund before in my life. Stop making out people are exaggerating or being drama queens. It was unplayable.

 

I didn't purchase it because of the stream, when I thought I would be with all certainty, so I am certainly not sticking up for DTG here, the minor details like the OHEL going through bridges I could have lived with in the hope they would be fixed but I decided my system would likely struggle if Sam couldn't run it with his modern system.

Yet some, and as far as we know a silent majority are running the route!

 

How do you know that? Only 17% of the Steam reviews are positive. How can you possibly know that the majority are happy with it?

 

I‘ve been playing the route and to some extent have enjoyed it (except the scenario on the stream- why cover it with fog?). I may well be the person mentioned above that has fairly low expectations. That’s fair, if I can get a stable framerate and can finish the scenarios, I‘m reasonably happy. I’m a casual player and a wall missing at Euston doesn’t bother me. Things like speed limits and incorrect signals do.

However, I‘m also in the ‘never should have been released camp’. I wouldn’t recommend this route to anyone, as my steam review says.

What has happened has happened though and DTG have acknowledged this and said they will take action. I don’t expect them to tell us what went wrong. That’s an internal matter and one that they will have to work on if they want to regain our trust. I do hope they keep us informed of progress.

I’d like to think they will do this.... They have been a lot more open on TSW and I’m a lot more positive on that product than I was. So I’m going to give them a chance. If they truly want to win us back, then they have the opportunity and this could turn out to be a positive.

Until then, I’ll wait.

 

How many people review on steam? How many people post on here? What percentage have the route and what percentage have complained about it?

This place is like an echo chamber and you can often get the impression that what is said on here is the overwhelming view. I don't know for sure, I might be wrong but there are many players out there who don't frequent forums and review on steam, far, far more that do I would hazard a guess.

 

So if 83% had said it was great, you would believe them, but if 87% are saying it's terrible then it's just a minority of bitter people with, according to you, possibly hidden agendas?

You probably are wrong.

 

How many people have purchased the route in total and how many have complained about it? That is what I was getting at.

 

I think we need to look at how many people have bought it and how many people are actively using it. There will no doubt be people who bought it, think it's naff and then just not play it, or uninstalled it without bothering to get a refund or complaining about it.

 

How about this then mate. Try making a freight scenario from Wembley Terminal to as far as Rugby with no track markers to add waypoints to the area at Castleborough and you will see why people are not happy with this route in its present state. Infact I might post a video later of the problem I am having and I am fully behind all of the negative reviews on Steam because the route is sloppy and is unfinished. Why is there no siding names at Wembley on the payware version and just dead lines that are unusable? But yet I played the freeware version yesterday and I was able to create the same scenario but go one better and do a freight train from Wembley to Daventry with no pathing issues. 1, the sidings are all marked on the freeware version at both Wembley and Daventry. 2, there is marked areas which I can use to add waypoints so that the trains are driving on the left hand side as per the real UK trains.

 

I know it’s not been long DTG but can you offer any further update? I haven’t purchased the route yet but providing I/we can get some clear timescales of when everything will be fixed and looking top notch I will purchase. Doesn’t bother me if it takes 1 week or 27 weeks but some further clarity wouldn’t go a miss.

 

The first update should address the frame rate issues.

 

I think its safe to say that a lot of us (me included) bought this route add-on out of trust for DTG to deliver on a good quality product but DTG has failed badly on this occasion and at the present time. The route in some aspects is unusable because there are key things missing like path markers to place keypoints when directing player and AI trains to run properly. Castleborough junction is a prime example of this!

 

Its the bit after the disused station just before the line splits off with the slow line for Northampton and the fast main line for Rugby. Hope that helps. I am not in the game yet so I cannot post any screens right now.

EDIT: I have finally got my scenario working with the destination place markers so that I would be able to route trains properly without any drama. Only took me two mins to add new destination markers and use them as way points. Shouldn't take DTG more than a day to add the siding names at Wembley and these destination markers so that we can route player and AI trains properly right?

 

Any news, any updates please Sam?

 

Just waiting for confirmation, but the first update is "in the pipe".

To make it sound less dramatic, it could be today but I haven't had that confirmed yet.

 

Aw man, now I'm pumped up and hoping for today don't set my toothache going again!

 

....it won't be today.

It's in final QA which means it's likely to be a thumbs up/thumbs down situation by tomorrow. I'll try to get the patch notes ahead of time so they can be chewed on.

 

That'll do, thanks Sam. Patch notes, changelog notes, version release notes, all appreciated.

While you are chasing those, please could you find the TS2021 core version release notes? Thank you dude!

 

Just an idea Sam... Especially as there have been so many negative reviews on here, Steam and YouTube etc... could you not produce some sort of email or PDF document which goes to all TS customers that clearly outlines your main forum post and what you (DTG) are doing to rectify all of the issues with any time scales etc.

I am currently talking about improving communication with a software provider at work and suggested roughly the same thing. Not everyone will have an account for these forums and considering all the negativity with the route. Surely it is in your best interest to reach out to as many of your customers as possible to make them aware you are going to be rectifying things and making things a lot dam better as they ought to be.

Just wanted to say whilst im here: I haven't yet purchased the route but I will 100% once things have been patched and improved. I and everyone else wanted this route to be a huge success and obviously you do too. If this route was delayed by another month or two we wouldn't have cared. If the wait was worth it you would have seen a surge in income and positive reviews. I can see this route has already affected DTG's customer perception and overall customer experience.

Jay.

 

Only requires a Steam stickied announcement anything else is overkill, let's face it if you don't have TS2021 on Steam then you're probably a pirate and I don't mean the cool Captain Jack Sparrow type either.

 

I mean the more communication the better! Lots of people will see a YouTube video or steam reviews and wont think again!

 

A steam news article would be better, as that will be seen from the library tab. Many people don't visit the steam discussions, and I wouldn't blame them as some of the threads can be painful.

 

I get where you're both coming from but tbh I'd sooner them just concentrate on fixing stuff than writing a Queens speech and distributing it across mass platforms in mass format.

Not necessarily poo pooing your suggestion, just what I personally think.

It seems to me that too many people are focused on placation and reparation when what we all really want (once we leave our oh so fragile feelings out of it) is a working product, is it not?

 

Hear, hear!

 

I agree that all we want is a working product. However, when things go wrong, holding your hands up publicly and explaining what is being done would certainly help.

This thread is good, but it doesn't take long to copy paste onto steam.

 

I thought they had held their hands up and explained what they were doing!

I get the feeling some wouldn't be happy unless there was a public flogging!

 

Please re-read my post. My reply to Reef was in relation to where he said that all we want is a working product. That is indeed correct, however when things go wrong, this sort of thread is needed. At no point have I said this thread is insufficient, I was purely commenting on a general case.

I've stated this thread is good. However a very small amount of players read the forum, and posting on steam the same message wouldn't hurt.

 

Okay, there's a lot in this first update to the route but much of it needs verifying by QA before release so I won't go into specifics (sorry). Final QA is purely about checking what we are saying is done is actually done, so it's a fairly quick operation. All being well the update will be out before the weekend, but that depends on QA not finding a problem with one of the fixes.

That said, at present there are a good number of fixes in this update that specifically target game performance, the expectation being that players will get a far better general frame rate. There's more in there beside performance improvement, but I'm going to have to keep you waiting.

 

If it's not a too involved task, would it be possible to provide details of what was done to improve performance in the patch notes please(rather than a standard "bug fixes and performance improvements"), just benefits budding developers like myself)?

 

I never asked DTG to write a queens speech? I just said communication is key, especially as not everyone is looking on these Forums. Like LucasLCC said, even if it was copy and pasted to steam. lmfao it was purely a suggestion so dont get your knickers in a twist boys.

 

I for one would enjoy it if Sam wrote the next Queen's Speech if his streams are anything to go by.

 

Chapter 1... the end.

Lmfao.

 

Coming from the person who's done exactly that..

LuL

 

lol? not at all bud

 

To be honest, I'm struggling to think of any reason why it wouldn't be a good idea to post a copy of this thread on the steam forum...

 

Really looking forward to this. And hope that the update puts WCML South back in my quick drive options.

Are we likely to see this deployed before close of play?

Have heart DTG, the latest Just Trains route needed some hot fixes, as did the new Alan Thomson Sim Cambridge route. It happens.

Dealing with mistakes in a timely fashion will restore a little faith.

 

Waiting for news. When I have it, you'll have it.

 

Still looking like today, or the weekend / next week now?

 

Read post 148 again.