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West Coast Main Line South Improvements

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DTG Protagonist, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. tsarianchild

    tsarianchild Member

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    This thread is becoming a disgrace. It's been pinned because it's supposed to be important to the community.

    So what do we get?

    We've stopped getting useful discussion of the problems about WCML South and updates from DTG. Instead we're now getting some completely irrelevant 'facts' about the relative merits of cars long gone, that most readers have never owned and don't care about. It's like you don't care any longer about the fixing of this route.

    That the DTG moderator joined in this off-topic dribble and thereby encouraged it may say something about DTG's focus on correcting the route.

    If you want to talk cars that's fine, but start a new thread. Don't dilute the relentless pressure on DTG needed to fix this route.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
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  2. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    DTG staff need a break, they've been working for months with TSW2 and TS2021. So what if they want to join in with a bit of harmless banter, chat to the customers, community spirit and all that.

    The 'useful' discussions about WCMLS are exhausted. DTG are aware of what is required to fix it. If it is annoying you, just scroll through to the DTG announcements and ignore what you find disgraceful dribble.
     
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  3. tsarianchild

    tsarianchild Member

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    Who says useful discussion is exhausted? How about sticking to the forum rules and not treating this as a private chat room?

    "2. Keep your post relevant to the topic being discussed."

    There's a whole section for Off-Topic. This is not it.
     
  4. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I'll take heed when you become a moderator here.
     
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  5. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Look... just face it. BL was a disgrace, and it deserved to die.
     
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  6. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I like the change of pace from going around in circles re WCMLS. Just make sure that when it’s released they’ve got it right.

    As for pretentious Maestro’s, where does that leave the Montego? :D My dad had 3 of them, one was automatic (double eek!). I used to think they were awesome at the time but looking back I’m pretty sure they were awful!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
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  7. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The Montego was pretty decent it was winning road tests against the Sierra and Cavalier its main rivals at the time. Again early ones suffered from build quality problems and the wheel arches could disappear from rust overnight. Bare in mind the Rover 200 and 400 were supposed to kill the Maestro and Montego off in 1990 yet they stayed in production till 1994 which says something.
     
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  8. ChiefJackYT

    ChiefJackYT New Member

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    I hate to be they guy to break the conversation, but I guess that it didn’t finish QA today either, so there’s still no release date? Just means more time to discuss about cars :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
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  9. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I will shut up (or try to) about cars now and I apologise if going off topic has upset some. 70's/80's cars are another huge passion of mine and I get carried away!
     
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  10. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

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    Thanks Sam,

    It's a cracking route, just a bit poorly at the moment. I suspect the testers did all they could but in any business, the big boss says it's release day, then it's release day.

    I'll say nothing more if DTG stick LTS Rail Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness on the UK list for me. Look, there's even an S Stock for the London end now. Just a modified 377 and you're done, stock-wise.

    I'll go now.
     
  11. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    So... Not a great time to bring Morris Itals and Austin Montegos into the conversation then?
     
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  12. markandrei24

    markandrei24 Member

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    Any new update as of today? Thanks. I am also planning to purchase this route.
     
  13. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    Personally I see nothing wrong with a wee bit of banter whilst DTG are working on a patch. Infact although its about cars but with this Covid thing about. I haven't been able to see as many friends in person unlike last year. So I think its great to have a chat and wee bit of banter to keep in touch with each other and I don't see any harm done. Perhaps the only harm I may see is those that do not like socialising and that's just my thoughts on this reason but I'm sure we will have an update soon. Besides at least it is not a dead thread and I am sure that an update for WCML South will be with us soon and I look forward to having decent FPS once the update has been released and works successfully. Then I can get on with the rest of my let's plays for this route and cover the other routes with TS2021 then that I have :).
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
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  14. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    Not yet mate. But I am sure DTG will let us know when its done :).
     
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  15. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Right, I'm done with forecasting, it's a woefully imprecise practise.

    The first of two updates is expected to be complete with its QA run today. What that means in terms of release varies - it can be a case of stage it on Steam and pull the trigger which doesn't take very long at all. It could be much longer than that.

    As soon as I hear more I'll let you know. That whole 7-10 day thing? Chalk that up to me being optimistic with the information I was given.
     
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  16. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Sam.

    This reminds me of kids sitting in the back of a Maestro saying. "Are we there yet?
     
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  17. car147

    car147 New Member

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    it was a fault with the engine block, each time. Eventually replaced and fixed
     
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  18. ntypeman

    ntypeman Active Member

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    Ahhh... wasn't that the Vanden Plas model...???

    Eric
     
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  19. ntypeman

    ntypeman Active Member

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    Sorry... hadn't read the rest of the thread and not realised it had already been mentioned...!!!
     
  20. ntypeman

    ntypeman Active Member

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    Oh come on... where's your sense of humour??? All the talk of old cars breaks the monotony & just for a while it takes the our attention away from the doom & gloom of WCMLS...

    Eric
     
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  21. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Just keeping spirits up while we sit in the trenches awaiting the big push.
     
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  22. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I can't relate to entirely to the British car talk as an American...but let me tell you, we have our fair share of stinkers from that era that also have a strange following of people who defend them as not being crap too!
     
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying they were all perfect, Leyland and later Austin Rover had periods of quality control issues and Friday afternoon cars but most (not all with deference so some on this thread) of the people I have heard describing them as rubbish haven't owned one. I have been running Leyland cars for many years and have had very little problems and we are talking about cars over 40 years old, and they don't just get driven to shows either, they get a lot of use.

    One problem with BMC and BL was that they were actually too innovative at a time when people wanted rear wheel drive cart sprung saloons like the Cortina. So front wheel drive, transverse engines, innovative suspension and futuristic designs like the Rover SD1 and Austin Princess were not appreciated.

    Generally if you pitted one against its rivals it was no worse a car but for some reason it has always been fashionable in this country to undermine our industry but making fun of it, then people wonder why we don't make anything anymore! If the Government hadn't allowed BMW to get their hands on Rover I suspect Rover and Honda would still be making cars in collaboration and Longbridge would still be a large car factory.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
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  24. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    We don't make anything anymore because your Paymasters' (Cool Britannia) got together for a chat (after realising they weren't going to make it big again with cars because of competition, like they did with railways, and water works, and telecoms infrastructure) and decided that paying someone practically nothing in another country was the way to go.

    They Nationalised the railways when they were broken. They sold them on to private companies when they were fixed.

    Rose tinted glasses are best reserved for Glastonbury, not the British car industry.
     
  25. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    In the early 90's under the Honda and Rover collaboration the Rover range was in rude health. Making a range of cars which were well built and popular, not just here but abroad, even the UK motoring press were excited. It was lack of investment under BMW who wanted the Mini and the 4x4 technology which started the demise of Rover which the Phoenix four finished by mismanagement.

    I don't know who you are referring to as "my paymasters" or why? I am totally against privatisation of most things and think railways and utilities should be in public ownership.
     
  26. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    I do plan to preserve a bus in 2021 as I like the Y-NHK batches from East London.

    Here is a photo of one of them.
    [​IMG]
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/77468444@N06/39306073210/

    In fact I would like to know how easy it would be to rework the DTG London Bus into something like Y514NHK above.
     
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  27. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    In another dimension you would be British Leylands current top salesman :)
     
  28. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Right, some more news for you, although no indication of release has been given yet.

    There are numerous problems with WCML and this is reflected in the number of fixes that will be inbound. The reason these got through QA is that they came about when one fix was applied after the first QA pass it broke around 15 different systems that had been working fine.

    To explain how this got into being a mess, the first area that caused problems was in consist variants. Initially there were too many of these causing several performance issues (frame rates down to single figures in places). To resolve this, some of the variants were removed and replaced with additional Class 390s and other, more fixed train make-ups.

    The problem here was that an incorrect configuration on the way that level of detail is handled on the 390 led to the game rendering maximum detail on the trains even when they were 2km away.

    The knock-on effect of this was that some assets - notably walls and catenary - wouldn't render at all, despite being present in the build. They're in the world, you just can't see them because they haven't been rendered.

    This is an example of what went awry, and how one problem causes a knock-on into others. The first update resolves these and more besides. As ever, once I know more, you'll know more.

    As far as release is concerned I was told today "next Monday at the latest". Please take that with a pinch of salt.
     
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  29. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I think AP did some work on correcting the issue with the 390. I wonder if it is the same issue.
     
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  30. AlexTheMole

    AlexTheMole Active Member

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    Thanks for the update. Looking forward to finally picking up the route up once a couple of the fixes have been released.
     
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  31. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Probably lol and you could be Jeremy Clarkson!

    Me too, I am happy to wait whilst they fix it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
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  32. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It is hard to believe these are 20 years old! I would be interested in reading about it.

    There is a bus museum not far from me which I have never visited, must do something about that.
     
  33. AlexTheMole

    AlexTheMole Active Member

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    Wythall?
     
  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes that's the one it will be good to ride on a National, Metrobus or Fleetline again
     
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  35. AlexTheMole

    AlexTheMole Active Member

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    It's a fantastic place! I can highly recommend it.
     
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  36. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I will make the effort. Thanks
     
  37. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    Having check over the details on Y514 NHK. Its still going well with Southern Transit and according to the records on the DVLA website. That beast of a bus was new in June 2001.

    Vehicle make DENNIS
    Date of first registration June 2001
    Year of manufacture 2001
    Cylinder capacity 8268 cc
    CO₂ emissions Not available
    Fuel type DIESEL
    Euro status Not available
    Real Driving Emissions (RDE) Not available
    Export marker No
    Vehicle status Taxed and due
    Vehicle colour RED
    Vehicle type approval Not available
    Wheelplan 2 AXLE RIGID BODY
    Revenue weight Not available
    Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 18 October 2018

    That is what is copied and pasted from the DVLA website. If I can pull it off, this one will be mine in 2021 as my first ever bus preservation project. I am going to have it shipped from Southampton to Belfast if I can as otherwise. I will have it towed from its current location. It will be part of the Ulster Transport Preservation Group if it becomes available in 2021 to buy. Also another unique thing about Y514NHK is that CMNL made a model of this Dennis Trident Alexander ALX400 as UKBUS1002 when it was new to Stagecoach London and was a brand new bus to East London at the time the model bus was new when Northcord first came into the UK model bus market. I will post photos of the model later and I will try a cunning texture tweak of getting the ALX400 textures onto the DTG model to at least make it look like an ALX400 Dennis Trident mate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
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  38. ntypeman

    ntypeman Active Member

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    A Trident...!!! I drove one of those last week albeit a single door version which we've got back for some emergency school contracts... We had some ages ago [at the depot I work at] and at the time were b@$+@£dised as they replaced Olympians... The Tridents were then replaced by E400's which again, were ok... Then the dreaded MMC400's arrived...

    Don't get me wrong, from a drivers point of view they [the E400's] are warm and reasonably fast once you get them wound up but therein lies the problem... When they were brand new, they were the bees knees... Then when they were about 8 weeks old, they suddenly became hated by every driver overnight!!!

    A man from ADL came in and connected his box of tricks (laptop) up to each & every one of them, updated the software thus engaging the door interlock... Doesn't sound much but if there's anyone else out there who knows about or has driven buses in anger and to a timetable then you'll know what I'm on about...

    Every second counts (as on the railway) and the cursed door interlock prevents you from pulling away from a bus stop until the doors are fully and I mean fully closed!!!

    I understand it's a safety device but it is one of things which to me is a step too far... Me as a driver (when not driving an MMC400) will shut the doors then release the brake letting the bus start to roll (as the doors are closing), then once I've seen the passenger sit down give it the lead boot...!!! As i said, it doesn't sound much but it can take around 7-8 seconds for the doors to shut properly... Now think about there being 40-50 stops on a route and the seconds add up...!!! Compared to today's vehicles, gimme a Trident any day!!!

    Digressing again (I bet tsarianchild really hates me now!!!) I have a real soft spot for Leyland Nationals... My other half basically runs the local large vehicle MOT lane and quite often she'll say "so & so is booked in with such & such bus"... As I'm well known in the local enthusiast & preservation scene, if I time it right and turn up at the right time I'll bump into an old acquaintance & end up having a good gab about the old days... If I'm lucky, I'll get a "do you wanna take it round the block???" I don't need asking twice...!!! Lol... Having been around the block for a few years, I served my time as an apprentice on Nationals and have experience with working on & restoring Bristol RE's, VR's, Lodekka's and many others...

    Anyway... I'll shut up now in case anyone wants to have a moan at me for going off topic... ;-D

    Eric
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
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  39. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    From what I have learned from those that own a Dennis Trident is that the Euro 2 (1998-2001) Dennis Tridents are not as computerised as the post Euro 3 stuff is but Euro 3 buses dislike being idle and have to be ran more regularly than the Euro 2 stuff. I have decided to vouch for a Euro 2 Trident as a first time bus and I am going for a ZF Ecomat variant instead of Voith as ZF gear boxes are more reliable and tend to be faster off the mark. Voith is okay but they seem more sluggish than the ZF versions of these buses. I have a like for the ALX400 variants over the Plaxton President as the ALX400 is a mix of a Royale and a Palatine 2.
     
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  40. ntypeman

    ntypeman Active Member

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    I like both types of gearbox... As you quite rightly say ZF's are fast but Voiths are far more melodious, have more sound effects and a VERY characteristic retarder whine!!! Most of the Tridents we have are the latter...

    Some of the fastest buses out the blocks I've ever driven had ZF's fitted but were coupled to a Cummins L10 engine... G-XRE Olympians & Leyland Lynxes come to mind...!!! Happy days...

    Eric
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
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  41. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    How dare you lol as if I would do such a thing! :)

    It is great hearing/seeing people talk about subjects they love even if it is one you don't have much knowledge about, I have a passing interest in buses but not like I do with trains. But I remember the days when I travelled regularly on the bus and it was all Nationals, Metrobuses or Fleetlines and then the Leyland Lynx came which seemed to have a very good turn of speed for a bus.

    Good luck with your bus preservation BR60062, it is just an important as train preservation.
     
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  42. AlexTheMole

    AlexTheMole Active Member

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    My childhood memories are of Midland Red Leyland Lynx, and honestly nothing we've had since in my area has been as good to ride on. Maybe that is just nostalgia though because I feel the same way about the Centro Class 150s we had round here. ;)
     
  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Being a childhood and adult fan of first generation DMU's I hated the Sprinters when they were introduced. Although it wasn't till around 1992 that they were dominant on the Stourbridge/Kidderminster line, they were mainly used I think for Hereford and maybe some Worcester services. I did think the class 156 which came through on the Cardiff services after the 155's were taken out of service were quite nice and still think these are my favourite Sprinter.

    I like them now though and I think the 150's are more comfortable than the class 172's which replaced them which seem to have firm and not very supportive seats. Although there is more room to stand on the class 172's which was important pre-pandemic in rush hour.

    One of the bus routes round Stourbridge was through an estate with speed humps and when the Lynx's were introduced it was great fun as the driver seemingly braked hard for the speed bump then full power up to the next one, that is how it felt as a 16 year old, not sure some of the older passengers were so thrilled! Nationals certainly didn't feel like that on the same route. I used to say who needs Blackpool pleasure beach when you can ride on the 247/248!
     
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  44. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    I grew up on the Isle of Wight where public transport was practically a museum for old trains and buses, all second and third hand. I would often sit on the lower deck of the half cab buses to watch the driver slam through the gears as we crawled up a hill,
    There is a bus museum on the IoW and there is an annual bus fair here in Hastings. Pure nostalgia getting on an old RT or RM.

    https://www.iwbusmuseum.org.uk/
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
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  45. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I often wondered if in their surge for modernisation, British Railways couldn't have kept the Isle of Wight as it was with steam running. Being self contained and the island having a slower pace of life. It would have been quite a tourist trap.
     
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  46. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Someone missed a trick there but there is the Havenstreet to Smallbrook steam line. When they withdrew steam one of the old 02s was stored in a siding at Ryde St Johns Road. A friend and I would help cleaning it with oily rags. Now and again it would be steamed up and we'd be treated to a footplate ride up and down the siding.
     
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  47. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Active Member

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    The issue AP corrected I believe was to do with the scripting of the loco which I understand was so horrifically unoptimised it's genuinely frightening.
     
  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Really...? Obviously your life has been fairly sanguine if you get frightened by a bit of shoddy programming in a game
     
  49. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Active Member

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    Hmm. I never knew my life had been sanguine. Thanks for letting me know :)
     
  50. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    They came for the trains, they stayed for the cars and busses. I don’t even have TS and I’ve been popping over from the TSW forum to keep an eye on this thread. Some might see this thread as a triumph, others might see it as a Triumph TR7, but it’s definitely a good read.
     
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