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West Coast Main Line South Improvements

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DTG Protagonist, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Does the 390 have windows now? It wasn't mentioned in the list of fixes.
     
  2. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    No. I think they may be going for a cool tuner vibe with super tinted windows. Next patch they'll be adding spinner rims and a mean subwoofer in the back.
     
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  3. Aryffordd

    Aryffordd Member

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    It”d help if they didnt post things like this:

    “ Collectively, these and those listed below, are anticipated to provide moderate rendering performance gains whilst playing scenarios and Quick Drive and improve overall usability for players that may not have the latest in computer hardware.”

    Like Sam? I saw that stream just like everyone else did... maybe Sam’s coming back from holiday to a shiny new Rtx 3080 and a souped up mega PC.

    Players that may not have the latest in compiter hardware, indeed! How about players who meet the recommended specs DTG publish themselves?
     
  4. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Joking aside, if it still has opaque windows, I'm not re-buying it, period. I can't explain how much that ruins the whole experience.
     
  5. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe anyone truthfully expects an update every day, however Sam posted on 29th September that he had been told possibly Monday but to take it with a pinch of salt. Monday came and went with nothing from DTG until this morning (7th October) when Nat posted it was still being worked on.

    I know Sam is away, but wouldn't it have been more professional and better customer service for Nat to have made that update on Monday?

    All people want is to be kept informed.
     
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  6. ChiefJackYT

    ChiefJackYT New Member

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    Just thought I’d leave my findings here. For me at Euston, FPS went from around 10-15 to 25-30. This % increase is similar on the other parts of the route I’ve played, and the route is certainly now playable.
     
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  7. AlexTheMole

    AlexTheMole Active Member

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    Sometimes I wish I could let things go, and think more before I type. I don't really mean to attack people for doing or saying certain things. I wish the internet was a more chilled out place and forums always become breeding grounds for extremes. In my brief time (in comparison to others on here) on this forum I've been accused of both hating and ardently defending DTG, which is a strange situation to be considered both enemy and ally.

    I just need to keep quiet I guess.
     
  8. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the windows are black to cover the interior of the loco at this point? Perhaps it too requires some serious remedial work.

    It's worth doing, the Virgin 390 with the AP 390 pack is an awesome machine.
     
  9. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    No way, your contributions are all valid and welcome, but the same is true of everybody else.
     
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  10. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    So I'm actually driving the 390 now, and the player driven train has blacked out windows, but all the AI 390s are proper transparent windows lol.
     
  11. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Then I shall keep my money. Take note DTG.
     
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  12. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    ..and when that is done I shall buy it.
     
  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Strangely enough I have been accused of the same, even a DTG hater!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  14. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    On these forums (and, generally, the wider TS community) you either adore DTG or absolutely despise them. There is no middle ground.
     
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  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not true from what I've seen. Most people don't give two hoots about the company, and just want the bits they want to work... to work
    Some are more outgoing in how they put their points across mind you, but then the mod hammer does come out occasionally resulting in bans (and sometimes obvious phoenix accounts)
     
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  16. mike370

    mike370 Active Member

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    That's odd I'm doing the same currently (I'm taking a brief time out due to graphical tweaking frustrations!) running the single 390 scenario from Euston. And in my game the windows of the Pendolino are fine. Black tint present, but semi translucent - can properly see into the cab. Same goess for the car passenger windows. I do use RW Enhancer (just default settings) so I don't know if that's making a difference for me. But I'm perfectly happy with the windows as I find them. Annoyingly though, the train's pantograph is not working for me. It remains folded, rather than raised - same for all of the pantos.

    I'll feed back on the overall driving experience later, when I've done the full run of the line, plus tried a few other scenarios, plus QD.

    But for now, my initial impressions is that it's showing 'improvements' in performance, after the patching. But I'm still hitting major problems with FPS & stuttering especially on reaching Harlsden/Stonebridge around Wembley - even when game settings dialled significantly down. The shear (very) large amount of OHLE seems to be the likely prime issue; but at least now the cables are all displaying. But have been experiencing regular painful drops from steady 27 FPS to 14 or below, with multiple long stutters. I note, a definite improvement in optimisation of the AI rolling stock, the FPS doesn't seem to be dropping as passing locos display - so that's a welcome positive. My FPS was fine in and around Euston itself, a steady 27 until the real problems at Harlsden began. But with 14 or so running lines (all with OHLE), plus all the many sidings (signficant proportion also with OHLE) that's one very demanding area for the game!

    Will try to get a more in-depth & balanced/fair feedback a little later. Cheers for now.

    Note, for context I run the game on a fast (4.5GHz) modern i5, GTX 1080, 32GB fast RAM, ITB fast SSD (devoted entirely to TS2021), Windows 10 Pro, all non-essential background apps closed. Normally would run most routes on max everything settings with decent FPS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
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  17. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    No, they are a company making a product, that is all I see them as. Having a company as some kind of demigod or next to Satan is just silly. They do good things and they get things wrong, like many other companies I have had dealings with in my job.

    I do think some of the stick they get is over the top and some of it justified, I think there are some who for some reason have a fixation with hating them and you can tell that from the lack of balance in their posts probably some the other way who can see no wrong. I do think some of the comments against the companies employees get too personal though.

    I base my like or dislike of them of how much I enjoy using their products and in the main it is greatly. If I didn't I would uninstall and give them no more money.
     
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  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I suspect it is always going to be one of the poorer performing route no matter what they do to it. I shall see how it runs on my archaic system over the weekend.
     
  19. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I'm also using RWEnhancer Pro, with all graphics settings maxed. That was today post-patch today. Black as black can be. Oh well.
     
  20. mike370

    mike370 Active Member

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    Genuine good luck. Very much hoping you can find a reasonably balanced setup that works for you. Look forward to hearing how everyone fares, after we've all had a chance to fully try it out.
     
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  21. rwaday

    rwaday Active Member

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    I do hope that there will be a Saturday mandatory meeting with lunch served to discuss WWWW "where we went wrong". Or in the parlance of trains, where did we go off the track? This was such a fiasco and web comments are pretty damning on this.
     
  22. Nacho

    Nacho Member

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    It is funny to see how people vary from continent to continent while the day passes. So now, from the Americas, I shall say that I was really looking forward to this route, as it is in my point of view one of the most iconic UK journeys, between it's two major cities. But the comments in this thread really kept me thinking and I'll better be cautious and wait a very long time until all this problems are (or not) solved. I think my next purchase will be the Epic Journeys bundle instead.
    It's really a shame, because of all the rolling stock included, the great length and the other routes in the deluxe edition.
     
  23. Expat16

    Expat16 New Member

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    I have just driven the 390 on the career route and the windows are as good as clear, you can see the interior of the cab, the shield from the nose of the cab is gone too. The FPS is still not great in the career scenarios, it’s better in quick drive
     
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  24. mike370

    mike370 Active Member

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    That's good to know on the window front? Did your pantograph work i.e. move into the raised position? Cheers.
     
  25. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I shall let you know how I fare.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  26. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Then you woke up and realised it was all a nasty dream!

    Thank you for bringing some humour to the thread! :D

    Seriously though, it must have been awful, I can't imagine why another member would feel it necessary to repeatedly call or imply that another member was a DTG hater!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  27. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    ....and

    Now I'm just confused. I think I'll wait for the Halloween Steam sale.
     
  28. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    The 390 has been improved a little. The obvious Virgin branding on the Avanti seems to have been removed (front of loco).

    I gave WCML South a little test last night, 07:30, Autumn, Cloudy, Euston to Birimingham fast. Frames around the major stations still leave a lot to be desired. Once on the open road, things seem a lot smoother and are more inline with other routes.

    However, I hit a red on the quick drive, consequently waited for an eternity, gave up and then went back to watching Ghosts on iPlayer.

    Oh, and the man stuck in the ground under the 390 in his hi-vis gear being dragged along under the train at breakneck speeds probably wants removing. I have a little video of him which I will share in due course, kinda funny if it weren't such a mess.
     
  29. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    The windows look good on my end.

    You still get the occasional stutter along of the route. And the loading of the overhead wires are still an issue. At least when driving the 390. I can't say if it is a problem with the 350, as I've half been in and out of passenger and driver view.
     
  30. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I'll still wait for a Steam sale.... it's not fully fixed, so I'm not paying full price. That simple really.
     
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  31. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Not true in my case, I'll criticise or praise where I think necessary.
    On this thread I have criticised DTG management for pushing WCMLS out before it was ready for release.
    No criticism of the creative team though who must have been thinking that it's not ready yet.
    Some might think that I have been defending DTG in my other posts here when I have said that it is pointless to keep asking for progress updates.

    In general I'd say that most people who use this forum are pretty even handed in their regard of DTG. The Steam forum is a different matter.
     
  32. MrLethaface

    MrLethaface New Member

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    It seems to run ok for me, a little stutter here and there, but nothing more than i was expecting really. My biggest issue at the moment is that i can't get the Pantograph to raise on the 390. Anyone else having this problem?
     
  33. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Does nobody else have the little dude in hi-vis stuck under the 390?
     
  34. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Huh, weird that everyone else has a "fixed" 390 and I don't. Makes me wonder if the update didn't properly apply for me or what.
     
  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe your steam client isn't active so hasn't updated... either way you can uninstal and reinstal the pack through steam client to force an update
     
  36. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    He's the missing driver from the Class 86. ;)
     
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  37. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Yea, that's what I'm doing. I saw the update come across and download yesterday, so I know I got it. Weird.
     
  38. AlexTheMole

    AlexTheMole Active Member

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    Strange question, but have you unpacked the route or Class 390 .ap file in your Train Sim assets folder? I had an issue where the update for the Tadami Line didn't apply for me, and then realised it was because I had unpacked the route .ap file to apply the Armstrong Powerhouse weather pack to it. Updates apply to the .ap file but if you have unpacked it then the game references those files over the .ap file.
     
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  39. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    That's a great tip. I probably did due to the AP weather pack and the AP 390 Sound Pack. Not to mention the Raildriver and joystick software that unpacks the RailVehicles folder.

    UPDATE: This was indeed my issue. I now have the clear windows and did see an FPS jump. I'm now 22-26 in Euston, which is still crap, but playable-ish.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  40. cscarpenter

    cscarpenter Well-Known Member

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    I also have no Pantograph on the updated 390 although the Ai 390's all have Pantos, windows are now see through so know I have the updated version.
    Can't believe DTG after all the flack they have had with this route put out an update which obviously has not been QA'd again.
    Also FPS is still dire, still only getting 14 -18fps @ Euston (GTX 1050i)
     
  41. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Member

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    After my disappointment yesterday, I'm a lot happier today. After the patch installed yesterday I hardly saw any improvement. The frame rate was constant, but the best I was able to get was 25 fps @1080p. After seeing others get better with lower specs, I reinstalled the DLC completely today. Totally deleted all traces off the SSD and reinstalled. I then unpacked the files. It's transformed it completely. I just completed 'Learning the Road' in the Class 350 from Birmingham to Euston. In Birmingham and Euston I was getting 30 fps, out in the country, 45 - 50 fps. This is at 1440p on Highest Settings. Have to say that I really enjoyed it.

    There are still a lot of bugs, but nothing that spoiled it for me (I'm no perfectionist, I just like to drive and enjoy the route). There was a tunnel coming out of Birmingham that had a solid wall that fortunately you can drive through. I encountered another tunnel where the inner walls were missing right until I entered it. In the text on the way through there is a spelling mistake 'willed' instead of 'killed' and coming into Euston the overhead wires still go through the middle of a bridge. In general there were a few stutters.

    So I look forward to the next update now. If you are getting issues reinstalling worked for me.

    Now DTG - Once this is done perhaps you could sort out Frankfurt - Koblenz. That still has a ton of issues
     
  42. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I had a look, didn't see him. Which consist and under which coach?
     
  43. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Tigert1966, Yes, That scenario was quite fun honestly. I like that they give a little information as you traverse the route. I wish they would do that with other routes moving forward.
     
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  44. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Member

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    Haven't bought this route decided to hold off until there is a patch after seeing the terrible performance on stream and YouTube reviews, now we have a patch i have read through the changelog but I wanted to know if anyone who already has the route if it is now worth buying in its current state as it is now? Also if anyone has any links or knows reveiws or streams I could watch i would be grateful.
     
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  45. mike370

    mike370 Active Member

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    Right now the honest truth (based on my experimenting with the patch this last 24 hours) is I'd say, no - don't do it!

    Whilst DTG have made some welcome corrections/improvements (it all helps!), I'm finding there are still very significant problematic performance issues. Which is the major concern for most players that needs addressing. Sadly it's still very much unplayable for me, such is the severity of the frame drops and stutters, happening over wide stretches of the line. And as yet, I just haven't been able to find any graphics settings tweaks that will give me a reasonable workaround. I've already dramatically dialled back all the various graphical settings. It's to date still the most desperate performance I've seen of any route for the game (period).

    Other little niggles also immediately obvious (caused by the patching) include:

    - somehow they seem to have broken the pantograph (none of the them will rise) on the Class 390
    - some folk, myself including, have been finding significant problems with broken QD scenarios. Unplayable due to faulty red signals.

    So my sincere advice to you, is hold off right now - in the hope that continued progress will be made by DTG to improve things as they release the next promised patch. If it were to stay as it currently is, I'd personally feel like I'd wasted £15 on buying the deluxe version of TS2021 (I'd have been even more gutted if I'd bought it as a stand-alone route for £25 as perhaps some folk have). It would be good for assets (for other route builds) and not much else. Very much hoping things change as this work in progress patching continues. I'll try to provide updates as I play around with a bit more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  46. car147

    car147 New Member

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    Screenshot_WCML South_51.54873--0.29234_17-31-53.jpg
    Yup me, i posted a pic hours after release
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  47. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Active Member

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    What was the download size? The advice from DTG that it was 1.2GB, but mine was 378MB - so did I get the update?
     
  48. ChiefJackYT

    ChiefJackYT New Member

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    I doubt this will be seen, but just reporting an issue with a banner repeater being half in the bridge just before Platform 5 heading south at Tring. upload_2020-10-8_21-32-59.png
     
  49. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    mike370 I was somewhat taken aback earlier that they didn't include the Northampton Loop, as I had expected (to be fair, they hadn't advertised it). I do agree with what you said (although I've noticed a rather nice improvement in FPS), especially with it being very good for assets.

    For most of the scenery, especially around Birmingham New St and Euston, the nicest thing I can say is that it's there (not so sure about New St because I've only ever been inside the station to change trains), but Euston looks very off and is just a vague description of what's there. I hope some improvements can be made.
     
  50. mike370

    mike370 Active Member

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    Matt, it looks like you might be running the 390 before revisions by the recent patch release. The shield on the lower front nose has now been removed. So you might not be running the updated version of the route. Did you happen to unpack the addon .ap files with the original version of the route & its assets? If so that could explain you're darkened windows, while everyone else now displays them tinted but see through. If your loco's pantograph is working, then you're definitely playing with the first release - since DTG unfortunately appear to have broken the 390 pantographs in the patching process.
     
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