West Cornwall Vote

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by turbostar#4215, Apr 28, 2021.

?

Modern trains for West Cornwall route?

Poll closed May 2, 2021.
  1. Yes

    50.4%
  2. No

    36.4%
  3. Undecided

    13.2%
  1. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    After 1971, the St Ives branch was single track generally worked by a shuttle DMU to/from St Erth on the main line. Penzance to Truro was operationally much more interesting as it featured (and still does) the expresses from London Paddington to/from Penzance and inter-regional trains from the Midlands and the North of England.

    In the 1970s, freight was very limited west of St Erth with the only freights being tanker trains with diesel fuel for Ponsandane (Penzance). St Erth had a reasonably busy goods yard and the up sidings handled large quantities of milk traffic to London, often headed by a class 52 'Western' until 1975/76. This traffic ended in 1980. Chacewater (between Truro and Redruth), also on the main line, had a busy Blue Circle cement terminal which hopefully will be included but it will need specific cement wagons such as Presflos. Hayle Wharves was a fascinating location with varied freight traffic worked by class 25s in its later years until the branch closed in 1981. However, class 37s and class 45/46s also appeared on the branch and it would add some much needed freight to this route. Truro also had a fairly busy yard, including traffic handled on the Falmouth branch although I don’t know whether that will be included.
     
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  2. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    That's a pretty comprehensive list. However, I think the last of the Warships (classes 41-43) went in December 1972. The class 50s didn't arrive on the WR until November 1973 and HSTs appeared in the West Country in 1979. You also need to add:
    Class 25 1971-1979
    Class 52 'Westerns' 1962-1975
    Class 45/46 1970-1986
    Class 37 1979-2000s
    Class 47 1963-2000s
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  3. railway12

    railway12 Well-Known Member

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    Thx for the info 50014, totally forgot the one or other class..., some adaptations have been made.
     
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  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    So that means that the DLC would need to come with a DMU. Loco-hauled trains are no option for that branch?
    Curious to see which DMU we'll get. Personally I'd love to see a Pacer in the game, but I guess the older manually geared DMUs could offer an interesting drive on this particular branch line.

    Several of the rolling stock you mention is already in the game. Cement wagons are supplied with the Class 31 add-on, isn't it?

    What liveries could we expect on this route? BR Blue? BR Green? Or some private rail operator?
     
  5. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Class 117's were not common either. Although Laira had a couple for a couple of years in the 1970's and maybe one or two in the early 80's. In the 90's Laira then Penzance had a small allocation for some of the branch lines including St. Ives. The class 118 was far more dominant in the area, in the 70's and into the 80's pretty much the entire fleet was down at Laira with Bristol/Cardiff having a couple of sets. They were virtually the same as the class 117's the only visual difference I think was the class 118's had a curved top to the route indicator box.

    Likewise class 122's were more common down there than the class 121's.

    I think if a class 117 was included it for me it wouldn't be a big deal, at least it would be a new unit, certainly an improvement on the class 101 for realism anyway.
     
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  6. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes by the 70's the St. Ives branch was basically just a single track line with no run round facilities, most of the branch lines had gone that way. The Newquay and Barnstaple branches could service loco hauled trains, the Newquay branch had through services from Paddington into the 90's I think, maybe even still does.

    Of course the Chocolate and Cream Pacer or Skipper would also be ideal for the TVL as in 1989 Heaton had several ex Western Region Skippers which were far more common on that route I imagine than the dwindling amount of first generation DMU's at Heaton by 1989.
     
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  7. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Would have been better for Rivet to get the feel of the TSW community first. That way they will make more money in the long run, if they give purchasers what they want.

    I am very happy that West Cornwall is coming to TSW and hope Rivet do it justice with spot on accuracy. Some of the TS branch line to St. Ives show up St. Ives in a poor light. It is a very beautiful place and I hope they design it accurately.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
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  8. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    They held surveys. I don't understand why people jump to the conclusion that Rivet hasn't done any research.
     
  9. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Purno. I am a long standing member of TS and Rivet community and I have seen nothing until they announced the route. All I am saying is I hope they do a better job than they did with IOW
     
  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That's a shame, but given the "era" covers fifty years and we don't know when within that "era" will be represented I don't know why anyone is excited or disappointed unless ALL you want is current locos
    Transparency... you know this isn't a DTG route, don't you? Transparency has never been a promise of Rivet
    DTG might do so (they don't really), but Rivet never have
    Cornwall is a huge county, not just one thing. If they wanted to do the clay runs they would have
    GWR license is held by DTG, not Rivet per se
    Agreed
     
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  11. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    Would like to see new trains personally that we haven't seen yet for TSW.
     
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  12. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    I agree but it depends on the period chosen. If a 'diesel hydraulic' is included (as has been suggested) that would set the period before 1975 unless it refers to a DMU. The class 52 Western from the 'Legends' pack is the most obvious choice but if a new locomotive, a class 42/43 Warship would be a good choice although they had all gone by 1973. Personally, I would love to see a class 50 but then I'm biased as you can tell from my avatar!
     
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  13. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I’d love to see some Sprinters but will buy the route anyhow, just because it’s a new line to drive.
     
  14. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    1950-1990's provides a lot of scope for traction. As mentioned previously in this thread, the diesel traction has been covered pretty thoroughly but what if it's set closer to the 50's. This period would be exclusively steam! Admittedly, it's perhaps a long shot, but who's not to say it wouldn't be. Castles, Halls, Manors and the must have Pannier tanks anyone?
     
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  15. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    There has been speculation on here that the introduction of a steam locomotive to TSW will be accompanied by a new route set in the appropriate time period. West Cornwall in the 1950s or early 60s could be a candidate for that but you’ve just highlighted the problem: if Rivet produce just one steam loco for that period it won’t be realistic. The route would need all the classes you have mentioned plus Prairie tanks together with suitable coaching stock. Somehow I think half a dozen new steam classes is a bit unlikely!
     
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  16. edward.gregg

    edward.gregg Active Member

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    I have to agree, Early British nationalised railways, even into the early 60s, would have a vast mix of everything. Steam Diesel and many variations of rolling stock. You just have to look at the pre-1990s Privatisation routes DTG have done to see that (not their fault) And even then the rollingstock and motive power In the 1980s was more standardised, Yet the missing stuff would help make it more real. I assume that would go for the same era's in the USA and Germany.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  17. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they have the ability to produce large mixes of everything. The development time for TSW2 is long and they are a commercial retailer. We all need to manage our expectations better. I would like to see all DLC come with the full range of trains for the era that's being represented but it just isn't going to happen.
     
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  18. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    If the br class 101 decide to return for this route it better include a real loco to tow them as passenger coaches,because the gears changing system is total garbage to have deal with.
     
  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean? The sim as compared to reality or because you struggle to deal with it? I rode behind the cab many times when these were in service and it’s exactly how they were, if anything even more slower and ponderous to accelerate through the gears than DTG have replicated.
     
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  20. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    On a real 101 the driver could use both arms to switch gears and change the speed controls,but doing this with a game controller or a keyboard and a mouse is just is a very slow and laborious chore,and not the least bit fun or rewarding.
     
  21. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

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    Ok that's your experience/problem with the 101 DMU, i for one like it, took me a while to master it but when conquered I felt like I had just given God a super punch to the balls, the feeling of epic awesomeness was that great, so definitely not garbage as you put it.
     
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  22. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely right and that's why I wouldn't want to see a steam loco included on the route. There is a much better chance of representing a wider range of motive power in a more 'modern' era and by that, I mean between about 1974 and 1976 when classes 45,47 and 52 were active together in Cornwall and are already available in TSW. Add a 'correct' DMU such as a 118 (not a 101!) and a class 50 and you have a good balance of rolling stock. Not too many expectations there!
     
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  23. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    People having a go at the 101 do not appreciate it. It is one of the most enjoyable trains to drive in TSW2 imo as you are busy but where I get disappointed is where it gets put on routes where it was rare or didn't run.

    I would have preferred Devon TBH for a locale but can live with Rivet's choice. The scope of time period, 1950-1990, suggests to me more than one train otherwise they would have picked one decade no? Perhaps it would be two trains that ran from 1950's-? and ?-1990 why else would they mention the 1950-s and 1990 unless they want to be deliberately vague which would be 'unpolite' DTG imo. Isn't the 101 a DTG asset so Rivet if they did do one it would have to be from scratch?

    For me I would like to see a 117/118, 150 or something new at least. It is bad enough for DTG to keep giving us the same trains for different routes which we have to keep paying for. It wouldn't be as bad if we already own a train that runs on a route we would get a discount, but that's crazy talk. Value for money? Pah!

    As for the poll itself what harm is there in getting peoples opinion about a route? Even if Rivet has probably picked the trains for it? There are plenty more threads you can visit. What's to say Rivet won't change their mind at the last minute?

    Let's say for arguments sake they did pick two trains to cover the period 1950-1990, what two trains would fit that bill?.
     
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  24. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    The time period is from DTG's roadmap which shows the route's prefix as 'GGD-R5 01'. You can see the explanation of an add-on's prefix here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/cracking-the-code.25968/
    In this case, it is Great Britain (G), Diesel Hydraulic (G), Diesel Electric (D), Route (R), 1951-1990 (5). I don't know why DTG used a 40 year timescale as it covers a period of significant change in railways. The fact that 'diesel hydraulic' is specifically mentioned would suggest the period when main line WR diesel hydraulics were in use unless it means a Sprinter such as class 150 which were also diesel hydraulics. We can only speculate.
     
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  25. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think you will find the driver couldn't change gear until the throttle was closed and the revs had dropped then he/she could change gear then apply power again. I am certain they didn't change gear and operate the throttle as it was not allowed as it could damage the gearbox.

    There are often complaints when DTG appear not to have simulated something correctly.

    When they do, there are still complaints!
     
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  26. lmcpfc2014

    lmcpfc2014 Well-Known Member

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    On the roadmap it now says R6 meaning it's 1991-2010. I'm glad about that as we'll be able to drive the HST to Truro hopefully. I prefer modern routes to the 1970s/early 80s that we keep getting.
     
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  27. turbostar#4215

    turbostar#4215 New Member

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    Hay Presto! The community has spoken!
     
  28. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    That is not what happened there
     
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  29. turbostar#4215

    turbostar#4215 New Member

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    Sorry. I was getting ahead of myself but literally just checked roadmap and realised Rivet listed the era incorrectly!
     
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  30. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    Disappointing about the mistake, was hoping it was going to be another vintage route. Guess we'll have to wait longer for a Hymek to show up.

    Hope they include a HST with this route. We need some more routes to run it along!
     
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  31. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Probably rule out a 50 now, by 1991 they were pretty much NSE only and were low in numbers.
     
  32. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    Probably only 2 classes of train. (HSTs limited to 75 mph and 150s). Penzance to Truro/ Penzance to St Ives only timetabled services. No freight.
    Nice scenery but no major stations/sidings.
    Enjoy while you run the same trains up and down, on the same timetabled service, occasionally seeing the same type of train going in the opposite direction.
     
  33. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Even DTG get it wrong with the time period so I wouldn't count it out until they announce it. Saying that surely they have decided now on what train so why not say what it is now and get feedback.
     
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