What Exactly Is Wrong With The Current Steam Physics?

Yet they repeatedly said during the promotion of SOS, after the release of SOS, and during the promotion of Peak Forest that steam was being worked on.

 

They were, it was after Peak Forest when the stopped and broke up the dedicated team. So add the 2 1/2 years for SOS and the time between the 2 routes and you can see how they would have gone over budget. That alot of time and payoll to be working on sometging that at most is going to be 1/3 of your game.

Might as well work on the 2/3 you can get to work.

 

If more people are willing to go with steam in its current state then maybe they will change their policy.

But as I see it its only the same 20 users over and over requesting steam on these forums and that is by far not a majority in the community asking for it.

Also if DTG said to you we are making 2 routes One Modern, 1 Steam and you can have all the profits for 1 of those routes which would you chose to fill your bank account?

That is their point of view, you guys are looking at it from a players point and not as a buisness.

 

2 because I’m not a greedy person and honestly I’m willing to bet money on the steam route doing better than you think

 

But would it do better than the modern route?

Again your thinking as a player, how many buisnesses are not greedy, and are willing to take a risk when what they have been doing is working? Over double profits from last year proves it is.

I've seen the sales numbers from TSW3 since my grandchild works for DTG and you are not correct. Even the worst selling modern route sold 5% more units than SOS. BR blue era was even lower, but that probably has changes since JT's routes.

But hey your free to think what you want.

 

I’m calling it now you made up that bit about your grandchild
And anyways that was with steam in it’s worse form, like if this is going to be fair then both routes would be tsw 6 standards and both would include at least one new loco

 

You don't want to be calling someone a liar without evidence.

 

That, ladies and gents, was a swing and a miss like this forum hasn't seen in a good while!

 

So uhh... steam physics

 

I feel bad for the DTG admin that has to clean up that mess up above.

 

SoS was a TSW2 route, if you don't have the sales for the former then I really don't think we can draw a proper conclusion. It's pretty clear from the outside looking in sales for routes are very front loaded, very possible it had a amazing TSW2 sales period, only to flat line afterward. Even ignoring that though the fact that the sales are low also in itself doesn't say much. The real question is why it's low to begin with, and I and most here are adamant steam content itself is so poor and has been dissed by so many that it's obvious it's not gonna sell well.

Also I have to say given how much trouble leaking out info can have I really wouldn't be abusing your child's connection to DTG in this way. You're might be putting their job at risk using that info for brownie points on the internet based on what I've seen over the years at other companies.

 

SoS fared poorly because after all the hype we had an empty route which got barely any aftercare or attention, let alone a follow up pack or two to flesh out the experience. Typical DTG fire and forget, moving quickly on to the next hot idea that can be sold with high fives and silly headphones and also forgotten.

 

Unfortunately they removed the truth and not the lies.

 

Yes, its a crying shame nothing was done after, the route itself is lovely, and looks lovely, same with Peak Forest too. But looking lovely but being devoid of traffic is a travesty

 

Yeah, honestly at this rate I would just take having early diesels in br green to fill in some gaps,

would 100% want steam over that but if it’s the only option I would take

 

Yeah, Spirit of Steam is a depressingly sparse route in terms of traffic, I'd be happy just to get *something* extra for it

 

I think the idea that steam doesn't sell because console players aren't interested is flawed. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that younger players will be more into modern trains (even though when I was younger I was much more into steam trains, with a love for Class 91s and 92s on the side), but the fact is DTG released two steam routes, neither of which were very good. The steam physics are still bad, but had DTG stuck with it and made key improvements future DLC could have been better. I assume DTG saw the sales figures, which were good for SOS but ungood for Peak Forest, and chose to cut their losses rather than continue to invest.

I still believe that even Kuju steam locomotives in TS provide a better driving experience than the TSW steam locos. That said, the relatively basic way of simulating steam in TS was a blessing in disguise, as it allowed third party developers to effectively write their own steam simulations. That's how we've got such good steam locomotives from Bossman Games, Smokebox, MeshTools, Forge, Victory Works, and to a lesser extent Caledonia Works.

I think it's obvious that DTG should have started small with a loco DLC for an existing route. Some kind of tank engine for the West Somerset Railway would have provided a good starting point. And because it would be pretty much an inconsequential release, had the steam physics been as bad as they were for SOS, the backlash would have been much less intense.

 

The next version is out now
It includes the 4F, 6P, and 8F from Peak Forest and has some improvements such as restored original HUD. I plan to do the Spirit of Steam and West Coast Steam Rail Tour versions soon, and update the Scotsman so the injectors are more effective

 

Certainly makes steam worth another look! Although, sadly the mod can't do anything about the poor timetables.

_________________________
A vague bit of hintery from Lukas suggests, however, that there just might be German steam on the horizon...

 

Just wanted to let you know that your work is very much appreciated.
I did two runs yesterday and for the first time in a long time was able to thoroughly enjoy 6P and 8F.
Thank you for the mod!

 

I don't play German content basically at all. But if TSG sorted steam out then I'd be there to support it!

 

+1 on more steam

 

Instant buy

 

Thanks a lot, your work is amazing! You've really gone above and beyond what I expected from a Jubilee/4F update and added a ton of extra stuff as well. Really calls into question why DTG couldn't have done this themselves.

Some bug reports - in conductor mode sometimes the doors close themselves when ready to depart and sometimes you have to close them yourself, also I couldn't find a service where you can check tickets.

Of course that is an area where modding can help. Perhaps now that steam is in a slightly better state there might be more interest in a better timetable.

What was CrAzZyKiLLa referring to with "its the same with abandoned steam content"? What post were they responding to?

 

Most services seem to start with no passengers, I think it is a core game issue. After you stop for the first time people should get on

I'm not sure why the doors sometimes want the player to close them, if I find a fix I will update it

The original Discord comment can be found here

 

Two longstanding problems. Passenger AI needs a ground-up overhaul, and several of us have been on DTG for ages to implement prototypical door operation, not pretend every train has driver-operated doors (even Mk 1 coaches and Umbauwagen!)

 

Even on power door stock, in many cases the driver or guard releases them, but individual doors only open if passengers actually operate the button by the door themselves. So you wouldn't see every door fly open as happens now when you press U or Y (or console D Pad).

 

The steam routes might have sold better if they'd included some diesels in the timetable. A 40 in SoS and a 45 on the Peak route would have been historically accurate - at least if you'd moved the routes forward a couple of years. A 08 would also have been valid too... or, dare I say, a new loco like a 24 or 25.

I have to admit I run diesels on both and find them fun routes with incredible signalling and siding detail. In contrast, most modern routes have few goods siding and much simplified trackwork.

 

I don't think so. The fact they were steam routes with steam trains was the appeal. (Of course, this speaks more for SOS, haven't played Peak Forest so can't comment on it.)

 

Seriously thank you so much for this. Only had a brief time to try it out but it certainly feels much better than it was. If this was all there but just disabled I've got no idea why it wasn't unlocked on full manual firing mode.I've been experimenting with the API and you can access a lot of the info but non of it really made sense without being able to control the water.

 

Without DTG stating the problems they're having on the simulation side of steam physics, it's just a guessing game by us.
My interpretation is there simu graph technology itself, Electrics or diesels have very predictable power curves, u know like x loco has this tractive effort, and y consist requires this amount of effort to move at said speed, i think there problem stems from steam not being comparable to the other forms of traction, the nearest thing i can compare it to, is trying to get an accurate torque reading of a car or bike using a CVT transmission on a rolling road, because you can't get accurate readings of engine torque as the transmission is constantly changing the ratio, similar to how the reverser works on steam engines (not directly as one changes steam timing the other the physical ratio) i know it's not a direct comparison but the end result is similar enough to be valid in my eyes.
To sum it up i think trying to use their Simu tech is not playing nice with the fact that engine HP does not correlate nicely to tractive effort, like the other forms of traction we have in game.

 

I personally think it’s more to do with sales than any steam physics, I just don’t think the console crowd are interested in any train that you can’t drive one handled whilst sitting on the sofa with your feet up eating a Big Mac.

 

Yes, we are in the realm of guessing without more info from DTG. I suspect improvements could have been made to the physics, but it was a lot less work and a lot cheaper to turn out short diesel/electric routes instead. It's not just about the time needed to fix steam physics. Most modern routes have fewer stations, fewer goods yards, fewer tracks, fewer signal boxes... so developers go for the low hanging fruit and easy money instead.

 

Quite recently I've been thinking about that Metro Rivals spotlight video where DTG talk about UE5 and subtly hint at what's to come...

It would be reasonable to speculate that the writing is on the wall for TSW as we know it and whatever the successor is will likely be a clean slate. Unfortunately, I can see that clean slate being modern era content only... at least until JT move over to it to provide us with the more interesting BR era content.

However, what about steam? DTG have more or less put their heads in the sand as far as the era of steam is concerned. Right now, we're concerned about the physics and the lack of steam era representation but when the next-gen train simulator comes along, I would not be surprised if steam just gets cut altogether and we're stuck with nothing but the modern era. Let's hope I'm wrong though!

This probably could've been it's own topic, but I don't pay enough attention to the forums to write up my own threads.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they abandon freight and anything else other than modern passenger routes as well

Hopefully there will be a public editor on day one, so at least third parties can start doing stuff immediately

 

I don't think that TSW will be anywhere near as successful as it could be in the future until DTG or someone sorts out steam. Whether it's through one of the editor projects, TSG or a different third party someone needs to sort steam for TSW to be as good as it can be.

What's most frustrating is we cannot seem to get any lines from DTG on the subject at all.

 

SOS sold well, but was not a good route. Peak Forest was an improvement, but went from nowhere to nowhere and had the same awful steam physics. It's not exactly a great lineup, and I reckon killed interest in steam pretty quickly.

And I'll reiterate that the 'console kiddies' argument is divisive and a method of gatekeeping.

 

I must admit - whilst it doesn't fix the physics I recently downloaded a mod from TSC which disables the safety valves (just switches off the animation and noise) - and steam was infinitely more enjoyable.

 

*Death stare*, I feel insulted as a console player, steam being my favourite thing to drive in this game

 

Do you have any actual evidence for this? You do realise the we have steam locomotives in the game, right?

Why not download the mod that adds manual firing?

 

Did you forget to read the part that said My interpretation????

 

No, I just don't see the point of posting speculation that's clearly not derived from any observation of steam locos in the game.

 

haha there’s always the exception, but sadly in many cases it’s true because most true train addicts will want access to mods on pc, so I’m not apologising for that.

 

And again jumping to conclusions, since i own all the steam content in TSW, and most of TS classic too, i also wasn't aware speculation was banned in this thread, as i don't remember reading any restrictions in the past 3 pages.