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What Is The Official Line On Tsw2020?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by longo239, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Codes cannot be shared as once they're used they cannot be used again.
     
  2. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - it's annoying when you get completely falsely accused of something, isn't it...? ;-)
     
  3. mike370

    mike370 Active Member

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    Could you please stop pre-judging people, & immediately thinking the worst of others. There was nothing to imply potential piracy or any dishonest purchase activity by our colleague. Just a fellow player, that's likely very patient, & smart with his money.

    There are a signficant number of very well known 3rd party gaming stores that specialise in selling nothing but Steam & other game codes. Legitimate companies that have been going strong for many years. All above board, no scamming, taxes on profit duly paid to the authorities. They buy such key codes in volume batches from publishers and/or buy unwanted unused/unactivated keys (fully paid for, the publisher DTG in this case has already received the money in initial purchase of the key).

    If you follow such offers closely (which many long-time players do, & they're regularly helpfully flagged by fellow players on all the main train sim community forums), then you'll be aware that one such recent example was Humble Bundle (a respected charity, where profitable proceeds go to chosen good causes) - where TS2020 was sold for as little as $1, with a couple of decent extra DLC thrown in. $5 would get you half a dozen extra DLC on top of the base package, & for approx $12 you'd get the full package of TS2020 with IIRC approx 13 high quality DLC locos & routes worth in total approx $275 (if you purcased them individually in the Steam Store). People could freely chose to pay extra for these packages if they wished to up their donation. By default I believe approx 30% of proceeds went straight to DTG, the rest to the chosen charities. I believe near on 70k+ packages of the game deal were sold in the month the offer ran. Clearly DTG were very much closely involved in the promotion. It's no the first time Humble Bundle have had such an amazing deal, they did the same for TS2016 a few years back. Lots of duplicate codes end up unused by players and sold on later. It's a competitive gaming market.

    It's sad to see some people immediately jump to such a prejudiced conclusion. Canny players know that if one is patient enough to wait 6 months or a year, then considerable (fully legitimate) savings can be made on game purchases. Pleasingly, I've saved a small fortune over the years simply by biding my time. And I'm sure that's simply what NAYDOG was trying to convey. Nothing sinister at all.
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Already said above if they're legitimate then fine (but they really should state where they're getting their licenses from and also take off the "you can't make money from our purchases" statements in their Terms), and there was nothing in the original reference stating they were going to wait 18 - 24 months
    I presume most people who've been on the net long enough know there ARE sites which are more than happy to rip off codes and resell them, even if they're in use. There was a roaring trade in such for windows 7 keys at one point
     
  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nope, because you don't know me outside of this forum so you can judge all you want. Couldn't care less to be honest :)
     
  6. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I didn't judge you at any point. It's not really my style. Anyway - I think mike370 has fully dealt with your earlier bizarre accusation, so I now just wish you a fabulous weekend - and I hope that you enjoy your sugar.... ;-)
     
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  7. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    yeah for the record before you come at me for my skull and crossbones. I meant places like greenman-gaming/humble where they have massive sales.

    Im in no rush for TSW2, Id rather wait to see if they can that one too before I buy.
     
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  8. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    The majority of games I buy are usually in a sale at a vastly reduced price... Patience is key, not criminal activity.
     
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  9. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I have not paid full price for any of the DLC'S I own. All from legitimate sites, just a case of watching and waiting for the bargains to arrive.

    Can't believe how presumptuous some people can be to suggest that people are acting unlawfully purely because they choose not to buy direct from DTG.
     
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  10. Gabriel12499

    Gabriel12499 Member

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    Please tell me this this website it would be greatly appreciated. Does it also work for console?
     
  11. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously it's not available yet, what I believe the OP means is that he will wait until it is available in a sale, which will be at least 6 months after release if not longer. Most of the sites I use are for PC only I'm afraid.
     
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  12. Gabriel12499

    Gabriel12499 Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - talking about software piracy on the forum of the company that makes the software really isn't terribly clever]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2020
  13. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    While buying from a key reseller itself is not piracy, those companies operate under an area of moral ambiguity .. a gray area if you will. My prime example is always G2A. Recently they touted on social media about the legitimacy of their business practices and egged game developers on with a cash prize if they could find any information on game keys they sold that were obtained under illicit means. A game developer quickly found several instances of copies of their games purchased and distributed illegally. Last year, many games companies actually advocated for people to pirate their games instead of purchase them from G2A.

    Point being .. be careful if you purchase from a key reseller. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be careful with your money but do your research. There are plenty of legitimate discount sites you can purchase from, Humble Bundle being one of them. I recently picked up a bunch of TS1 content they were selling for cheap and selected a portion of that sale to go to charity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  14. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    So what was the issue with G2A? Personally, I have never had a problem and all the keys have worked faultlessly when entered into Steam.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  15. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    While the keys themselves may work, they could of been obtained illegally through stolen credit card information. G2A had to pay the developer of Factorio $40,000 because of this. I recommend looking up the news stories on it. The way G2A handled themselves and the situation was scummy. They are a disgusting company.
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Or they crack the method the keys are generated and sell those, even without even buying keys in the first place through any means. That's how the windows 7 key hack worked
     
  17. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Not disputing anything you are saying, but the Steam codes I have bought from DTG, G2A and other resellers have all been 15 digit alpha numeric. So, whilst generating fake codes for a single product like Windows 7 is quite believable. The ability to generate that code for one of the specific 2000+ DLC's that there are for TS seems like a lot of work for very little gain considering the low price they are selling the codes for.

    I would therefore think that if there is an impropriety it would be the method given by PlatChap.

    But thank you both for enlightening me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully steam codes are generated in a better way than the MS ones from back when, and hopefully people have more scruples than to sell illegally obtained content to unwary customers.
    Though to be honest I don't think any of what I've said is true.
     
  19. Lombra

    Lombra Well-Known Member

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    You're not really helping your cause.

    G2A, among others, is a second hand market for products that may not be sold second hand. They are absolutely not authorised resellers of games. Some of those sites even offers "insurance" against invalid keys. What does that tell you regarding the legitimacy of their products?

    Buy where you want, but don't come claiming those sites are legit. There's a reason they're cheap, and it's not charity.
     
  20. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I did my due diligence and found that G2A is a legitimate site, with which I have had no issues with any of the keys I have purchased. All have been accepted when entered into Steam. All the keys have been for older DLC's not new releases.

    If you are quite happy to pay full price to DTG that's your choice.

    I will continue to spend my money when and where I choose.
     
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  21. Lombra

    Lombra Well-Known Member

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    Also, quite frankly, some people in this thread seem a bit dense. DTG's first response may have been slightly ambiguous, but later replies were, to me at least, very clearly worded; TSW2020 will not be touched anymore. Not one bit.

    Why do you want them to say they will fix bugs? I thought we wanted them to be more honest, not less.

    They're not at all required to do anything about bugs in TSW2020. They already weren't amazing at doing so when it was their latest and greatest product, and now you expect them to do so when it has been succeeded and also explicitly said not to receive any changes that "requires a change to code or design".

    I completely understand that these are decisions that people are unhappy with, but now that DTG have chosen to be a bit more honest, it's like you refuse to accept the grim reality we've now been handed.
     
  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    That ("change to code or design") would only apply to development. There has been no clear statement about not fixing defects.

    If DTG could make it clear that they absolutely will not fix defects in TSW DLC, then that clarity would be appreciated - but they haven't said this yet. They have not said that at all.
     
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  23. Lombra

    Lombra Well-Known Member

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    No, they very clearly said this, if you stitch the posts together.

    Ie, nothing that requires a change to code or design is planned.
     
  24. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    Yet they will still sell the old TSW and DLC's to new comers who will have no idea that the product they are buying is bugged and will not be fixed... how will that work I wonder?
     
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  25. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    As long as they have bought their key from DTG and not from a reseller, who cares! :cool:
     
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  26. Lombra

    Lombra Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly a unique case. Games get discontinued all the time. That's no reason to take them off sale. Alas, this is where user reviews come in. As long as people are able to do basic research (ie read Steam reviews), low quality titles get filtered out "naturally".
     
  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I posted on another of your comments time references in the release video where MattP stated that TSW1 DLC will not be getting any further development. He later stated that preserved versions (ie TSW2 versions) may get updates, but that still doesn't apply to TSW1 versions
     
  28. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Once it was explained that bug fixes is development not support, it was perfectly clear what their plans are.

    Good job my car dealer/manufacturer treats bug fixes to the software in it's cars as support not development!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Their plans are fairly obvious from what was said on the stream. Move on with TSW2 content, leave TSW1 content where it is
     
  30. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes you did. And it doesn't matter. There has been absolutely no firm statement to suggest that TSW2020 DLC will not have bugs/defects fixed, after 6th August 2020. If anything, the line from Matt P was that previous DLCs would or could receive fixes (but not always). You quoted three times from the Q&A video:

    16:23 - where it is stated that no further work will be done to the add-ons
    20:00 - where it was stated that there were no plans to act on the "feedback" acquired by DTG Protagonist in the Forums
    21:52 - where it was stated that maybe there would be updates to the "Preserved" collection under TSW2 (but not under TSW)

    The key thing here is what "updates" and "work" and "feedback" all mean - and I believe this all to be about feature updates. The one timing that you didn't quote was this one:

    73:00 - where Matt is asked about ongoing "support" for DLC releases (support for DLC..... ....not support for humans....) and Matt said quite clearly "Yes" and that they always go back and improve things, but that one thing DTG needed to work on was to be clearer about fixes, and what could or could not be fixed, and what should not be fixed (as it is working as designed). It's here:



    That's the only time they talked about fixes to broken things. And such fixes ("support" for DLCs) were not considered to be "future work on features", "future feature updates" or part of a "response to Forum feedback on requested features".......

    The prospect of future fixes of defects in any TSW2020 content has not been explicitly (or even implictly) excluded at any time. I have maintained this viewpoint since the first time I watched the Q&A video, and I have seen absolutely no explicit evidence contrary to it.

    Apart from anything else, DTG can't just say that they will not fix defects in old TSW2020 DLC content, if they intend to continue to sell it, whether that is to old owners of TSW, new owners of TSW2, or both.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  31. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Nobody said this.
     
  32. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    This is where I am taking my understanding from.
    So as I understand it, a bug fix would in effect require a change to code, not human assistance.
     
  33. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    But he also added (in the same post.....?).................:

    "The(re) is no plan for further development, be that new features or changes to how the routes or locos from the TSW1 era operate."

    No explicit mention there of not fixing defects or bugs. There is no guidance in the Support section of the Forum telling you to not report bugs for any of the DLCs. You have to remember that the "feedback" that DTG Protagonist got from "current issues" with TS1 and TSW was a very wide bag - most of it was feature requests, not explicit bug reports.

    I am not even being cynical here - I genuinely believe that Matt P was quite clear and reasonable about the intentions... and that bug-fixing will continue. That is normal business, and fair business, and that's what he said would be done.... but he also said that there should be clarity on not "fixing" things that work as intended - but perhaps not as desired/expected by the player - a classic being red lights in the timetable, which work as intended but are often (wrongly) reported as bugs.... because the player got to the light too late.

    What's needed is a clearer bug-fixing framework... so more people more easily understand what to report.
     
  34. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I get where you are coming from, but at the moment I think I'm going to adopt the approach that if I don't expect anything, I won't be disappointed when it doesn't arrive.
     
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  35. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    That's a good approach. For me, it's all about minute 73 (and I just trust Matt on what he says):



    But.... if nobody reports any bugs because they've indepedently formed an impression that nothing is reportable in the future....... then maybe from DTG's perspective.... expectations have been managed..... and the job's a good'un.... !

    And....
    they won't have broken any developer agreements with platform partners to continuously fix bugs and defects that are flagged to them, because they haven't given any explicit statement contrary to such agreements.... and maybe nothing will get flagged anyway... not anymore.

    Nice. Everyone's a winner. Sort of.
     
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