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What Is Train Sim World 2. Really Confused Here ?.?

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Member

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    I’ve been a franchise owner for a while now. I’ve had number one, 2020 and at least 5 dlcs. All in I’m at about £150.

    By chance the other day I saw Train sim world 2 and it peaked my excitement . I read the news articles, watched the developer live-streams and I have to say I’m perplexed as to what it is. My summary is

    I can ride an American route which is mainly trees
    I can ride the bakerloo line and see one big tunnel.
    I can have a pink train if I want.
    Something about wheel slipping.
    all my old stuff carries over
    I can create a scenario
    It is more story driven
    Talk of steam trains (another £25 on the price there no doubt)


    So my question is, why should I buy. I’m really looking for the hook here for ,me to spend more money and I just cannot see where it’s different as all I’m doing is getting a map pack dressed around a new engine.

    I really welcome other peoples thoughts as to where the significant extra changes are to warrant more money. I am a fan of the franchise but I feel really underwhelmed this time round.
     
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  2. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I don’t really see the point in this post. It’s not added any value to anything. If you don’t like what’s being offered, don’t buy it. You’re not obligated to do so.
     
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  3. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Member

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    I’m searching for the value in your reply too . It’s a genuine question to which as I state I welcome peoples thoughts to understand if this is ground up new or a reskin.
     
  4. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Until we see the game in action, we can’t answer that. DTG seem convinced the upgrade was needed - if that makes things work better e.g. more trucks coupled to a train for added realism, then yes, it was worthwhile.
     
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  5. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Member

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    Yeah I agree. I think my reservation comes from there needs to be some sort of big step change forward be it graphically or gameplay wise for me to commit and that’s what I’m struggling to pick out of there communications so far. I think I’ll hang fire until I see what the reviews portray etc. 2020 didn’t seem like much of an upgrade and that’s my fear/ reservation here
     
  6. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    So...........at the moment I suggest to not buy TSW2, however my thought my change.
     
  7. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You have bought DLC in the past. You can think of this as a load of DLC for a knock-down price with a better performing engine and a box full of new features and you’ll be almost right. If you don’t want that then don’t buy it but be aware that if you want any of the new DLC in the future you will have to buy it. If you are happy with what you’ve got and want to leave it at that then that’s your choice. Why does it have to be massively different for you to buy it?
     
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  8. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Active Member

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    Some won't like what i'm about to tell you,but unfortunately i think it's sadly true,what tsw2 is a chance for dtg to sweep tsw2020 under the rug and not waste anymore time fixing it's issue because you can't make any money doing that.So there making tsw2 as a way to start over with a fresh new game,which they may or may not get right with a 2nd go at it.so if you want it buy it do if not just stay with tsw2020.
     
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  9. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Member

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    This is what I’m wondering. I’m not against it just can’t pinpoint from their literAture if there will be any difference in how it feels to play or if there will be any visual upgrades etc
     
  10. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Member

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    As DTG Protagonist has suggested the QA team are busy with TSW2...this last update for the diesel is we can assume the last ever update for TSW. Everything is being thrown at TSW2.

    Lets hope we can all enjoy it!

    Dave
     
  11. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Dave, allowme tell you that DTG are making excuses. I don't believe they have been begun to make said update. I understand delays in development, but a month for the 204 update is not acceptable. You may then be considering, why this was directed, the reason for that is because of your sentence 'everything is being thrown at TSW2'. Now, that's not a good thing, there trying to abandon TSW2020. Key word in your last sentence is hope. So, to everyone at DTG (the management team), learn how to run a company, you dont abandon previous ventures.
     
  12. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 is not being sold at a "knock down" price, at £25. It is being sold at a "fairly expensive" starting price, that has not yet been "knocked down". It hasn't even been released for sale yet - so there is absolutely no scope for using the phrases "knock down" or "reduced" or "discounted". Also - as a train simulation game that includes just three routes, it is a far cry from previous packages that included nine or ten routes for about the same price. I just bought Alien Isolation, including all of the DLC for that game for £10 - that is a "knock down" price.

    DTG will no doubt attempt to sell future individual DLC routes for £25 each (or more) for very short periods of time, so that they can later market them as "discounted" when it is closer to a reasonable value price, but that does not mean that a pack of three routes now for £8.33 each is any sort of a bargain. It is merely a little more reasonable than the stratospheric prices notionally charged for other individual routes.

    I only make this post in order to restore some balance. Otherwise we will get into the situation where DTG will notionally charge £2500 for individual routes, and then market them as 99% off in order to sell them for £25 each, and people will (wrongly) regard it as the sale of the century.
     
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  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I know, and I never said it was. I said you can think of it in terms of lots of TSW DLC at knock-down prices. It’s the equivalent price of one TSW route DLC and you get three routes and the other features for it. That’s all I was saying, nothing more.
     
  14. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that's clearer. Thank you. You could think of it like that.... Of course....! That explains it.

    You could also think of buying TSW2 for £25 as being like DTG paying you to use their software, with a free gaming laptop supplied with it, for you to pick up on the beach..... after your included free charter flight has landed in Barbados, where your pro bono lawyer meets you at the airport asking you to sign a piece of paper which entitles you to ownership of all of Richard Branson's assets.... including the plane you arrived on, and binding Prince Harry to be your servant for the rest of his natural life.

    You could think of TSW2 like that, if you wanted to. But it's not reality, of course. Just like "knocked down" price is not reality either.
     
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  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You know exactly what I mean, no need to be silly about it.
     
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  16. JohnnyK98

    JohnnyK98 Well-Known Member

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    It seems like your mind is made, and you don't want to buy TSW2, and that's okay. My advice to you? Wait, and see. Once the game's released, look at reviews, watch videos, and inform yourself until you've made a decision. If you're still unhappy with what is offered, then don't buy it. Simple as that, huh?
     
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  17. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Something to add by what Johnny said, you cant judge a book by its cover. Just the same as you cant judge a game by 6 screenshots.
     
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  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    With respect, you might have noticed one or two threads regarding it from the last couple of weeks. Many people have aired their views!
     
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  19. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    For many people £25 for two (maybe three routes if you are a console owner) is a knock down price, considering that is the standard price for one route!
     
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  20. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    What was the price that this new product (TSW2) has been "knocked-down" from.....? What was the price before it was suggested that it would be sold for £24.99.....? What was the previous offer price.....?

    What was the previous...um... knocked-up... price....? Then we can see to what extent it has been "knocked-down". I think that you will find that it hasn't been "knocked down" at all. Not by a single penny.

    It's bad enough to see DTG play fast and loose (but remain just about legal) with claims about their pricing.... but to see actual customers making up or supporting completely hyperbolic claims about relative value is really quite astounding to see.

    Wow - the marketing has worked. I think you guys have just handed the Marketing Department at DTG a bonus payment, by proving that their approach actually works on some people. I reckon that in times to come, that their marketing methods will be seen as iconic in the games industry. Or seminal. They will be taught as basic foundation studies in the greatest advertising and marketing institutions of the future.
     
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  21. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You know exactly what we both mean, you’re just continuing to argue over semantics as if we’re writing a legal document here. Nobody is suggesting there was a higher price for TSW2 and now it’s been lowered, you know for a fact that we are referring to it being the same price as three route DLC (either TSW or TSW2 routes to come). And we’re saying that people can see that as a bargain, compared to the normal price of DLC. Colloquial use of the phrase “knock down prices” does not indicate anything about the legal status of such pricing, it just means cheaper than similar goods being offered at a higher price.
     
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  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Actual words are important. They convey meaning and ideas. The "off-discount" back catalogue RRP for individual routes for TSW has indeed been an extremely over-priced and unrealistic £24.99 each. This might go up to £26.99 fairly soon (as we have seen with TS1).

    If you qualify the "knock-down prices" idea by clearly stating that no "knock-down" has actually taken place, and by drawing out the idea that the comparison is with something else that in itself is stratospherically and unreasonably over-priced, then that's fair enough. But you didn't. You gave the impression that paying £24.99 for an individual route is somehow normal or reasonable - which it clearly isn't. Not to me anyway, and I could afford it. Have you ever paid £24.99 for a single TSW route.....?

    Since owning TSW2 will (presumably) be a pre-requisite for using future hyper-expensive DLCs released for a very brief period at £24.99 (or above), it is very highly likely that TSW2 (with three routes) will rapidly be reduced to £15 or maybe even less.... to not dissuade the North American PC market from dropping TSW2 altogether, because otherwise the next North American DLC will look like it is costing $60. So TSW2 at £24.99 (or $30) isn't actually even a good price, in that context. Let alone a "knock-down" price.

    I will buy TSW2 for the PC.... even though this means I will have CSX:HH twice on PC, including the original TSW one, and the second TSW2 one that they reportedly built...from the ground-up... starting completely over again from scratch... to build something almost identical to the original TSW one. Or maybe they just did some minimal work to convert the route and some of the locos from TSW to TSW2.

    I will probably buy TSW2 at £24.99 for PC a few hours after release.... waiting a few hours just to make sure that it isn't completely horror-show broken... you know, just in case of a rare event where the very real and no doubt very very diligent and highly competent and extremely well-qualified QA team have just had an unlucky consecutive run of "bad days" and failed to spot that the whole game is utterly and devastatingly broken, or that half of it is completely missing (like with the OSD route). I would, in the past, have taken a punt.... but given the lack of clarity from DTG on whether they intend to fix the broken things that they make and sell, I am not now prepared to take any risk.

    Seriously - DTG can't even make a statement like "If after TSW2 is released, any bugs are found that affect gameplay, and/or the software is clearly not working as intended or designed, then we will work to fix them"........... They can't even say that. This doesn't massively bother me, because thankfully they will be contractually required to fix such bugs on PS4 (and therefore PC)......... but I would rather avoid the hassle.

    Now get this... I will probably buy TSW2 again for the PS4 - especially if DTG confirm that they are complying with Sony's mandate for PS4 games released after 5th July 2020 to be compatible with PS5. But I first want to check how other PS4 users experience the DLC situation, and whether or not DTG will have completely failed to get that to work, you know, just in case they haven't tested the process out on console, and accidentally thought that it might be exactly like the situation with DLC on Steam.... which it isn't. A problem with DLC on Steam is easily recoverable... but on PS4 it really isn't - not when they intend to do something quite unusual. As an example of DTG's competence with PlayStation.... they still have not listed the Baby Bullet or the LIRR M3 on the right page (the TSW game page) on PlayStation Store....... Really basic stuff.

    I strongly suggest that DTG think about testing the various permutations of ownership of TSW and TSW2 and their DLCs on PS4, and do this before they release TSW2 - as this is something that could go very horribly wrong, in multiple ways.


    I also want to see footage of the Bakerloo Line. If this has been built in the style of NTP, with a dense black screen through Standedge (and at night in the open..... ;-O).... with no light source on the front of the '72 stock to pick out tunnel features (or reflect off walls and platforms in stations, or off the tightly packed-in infrastucture )..... then I will not buy TSW2 at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  23. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes I have, just the once, and I have bought several loco DLC at full price. As have thousands of other people. Whether you think that’s overpriced or not has no bearing on the fact that that is the price that new DLC is offered at. I have also bought DLC at all different discounted prices. I will continue to do this with whatever DLC takes my fancy, either buying immediately or waiting until there is a sale. Other than the original TSW2020 Deluxe edition, which came with a whopping seven routes for £39.99, there is no combination of three routes I have bought that totals less than £24.99, and unless I wait for a long time I won’t be able to get three TSW2 route DLC for less than £24.99 either. It’s therefore fairly easy to see that the initial TSW2 price is a fair bargain, plus you get the extra features.

    You pick at the words I use in posts, exaggerating the meanings of them to try and make me look stupid but I suspect it’s having the opposite effect. I generally agree with a lot of what you say on here but you do come across as a bit of an arse when you do this.
     
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  24. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - flaming]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2020
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  25. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    That's not my intention (and I absolutely do not think that you are stupid at all). But I do tend to respond robustly to outrageously positive hyperbole with something to counter-balance it - especially hyperbole that is apparently strongly aligned to DTG's own marketing..... That said, I was quite enchanted by the idea that Prince Harry would be serving me a JD & Coke with lime, with a cheeky smile on his face, if I bought a copy of TSW2.

    At £24.99, the TSW2 product is still (in my opinion) relatively expensive (compared to content available in other software). But I will (hopefully) buy it twice..... after it has been first tested by early adopters and proven to be vaguely functional. If it is proven to be vaguely functional, then It is obviously better value than previous three-route sets, on console, because of the inclusion of the Livery Editor and the QuickDrive function (and I could see myself sinking 100+ hours into the Livery Editor alone...... if they have included a decent variety of decals and colour controls). But it won't be considered to be value to many PC owning North American route fans that are not interested in doing art projects.

    For me "knock-down" has very strong connotations of a final last ditch attempt to sell something as an end-of-line product, possibly in a closing down sale, or to realise cash from assets when a company is going into administration..... or a healthy company that is just clearing old stock from the shelves to make way for new stuff. And at a price never to be seen again. Maybe it's just me- but this phrase appears to me to be almost precisely opposite to the reality of a product being sold at a launch price, at launch, and expected to be "discounted" very soon after.

    Yes - I picked out this "knock-down" phrase - the key term that you used to express your idea - but to me it is a very strong phrase..... and it is fairly close to saying "you are being given this for free, take it away now for free, or fear the possibility of missing out completely".
     
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  26. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you do what I'm doing. Hold fire on purchase and watch from the sidelines. After release, read reviews, watch video's, see how DTG react to issues/bugs, see if they just copy the usual DTG model of releasing bugged DLC after bugged DLC without fixing, see if new features are added - by which time the main TSW2 will be on a good sale and so may some of the DLC!

    It's probably going to be 2yrs before I delve in (if things have improved!) but I'm in no rush!
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  27. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I think that what you have suggested is a really good approach. Especially in these uncertain times when DTG appear (bizarrely) to want to reduce customer expectations as far as possible, with respect to Quality Assurance. I certainly have other things to focus on if I want to... ;-)

    But.... I have a semi-professional interest in the TSW product - I would actually like to write about it....very positively....in a future guide... but TSW is not ready for that yet, as it still appears to me to be in an early beta phase of development, and you can't sensibly write a guide for it, and shout about it positively in all good conscience, given the state that it is in.

    So I will almost certainly be buying TSW2..... twice..... I am actually interested in how they implement across platforms.

    I certainly won't be buying any route DLC at £24.99 a shot. I briefly considered buying RRO for £16.... but then decided to just wait for all TSW DLC to fall well below £10 before I buy any more of it. The same will apply to TSW2 DLC (unless they bring out the South London Network on TSW2...., which I would happily pay £50 for......).
     
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  28. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    You really need to stop being so patronising, you were like this in your previous banned incarnation.

    Okay, maybe knock down price isn't the correct phrase! However, the fact remains that generally in non-sale conditions and non pre-order conditions for both TS1 and TSW you get a route and some stock for £24.99 in the UK.

    The fact therefore remains, that if TSW2 retails for £24.99 in non-sale or non-pre-order conditions then you are getting two or three routes and stock for the price one would normally be.

    You knew that of course, but you like to type long paragraphs of word soup which quite frankly I couldn't be bothered to read past the first couple of!
     
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  29. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - I agree with you.
     
  30. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    DTG are like the DFS of the software world! There's always something on sale.

    A quick look on SteamDb, and you can get a general idea of what you can expect to realistically pay, so no one really needs to pay full price as long as they have a little bit of patience.
     
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  31. L89

    L89 Member

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    Well, on Xbox, no older content has been on sale for ages (lately it's always recent routes and locos). I'm only buying older content when it goes on sale or gets permanent price reductions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  32. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I don't believe Sony or Microsoft have sales that often.

    This is possibly one aspect where DTG can't make all platforms equal.
     
  33. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Member

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    Unfortunately no. I only came back on here to ask the question having stumbled across the announce .
     
  34. L89

    L89 Member

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    Yeah, it feels like something Microsoft are in control of heavily. Every Tuesday there are two sets of sales usually depending on your membership. Ideally I want to get remaining content before Train Sim World 2.
     
  35. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Please ease the tension down a notch or two in this thread. If those who enjoy making massive sweeping statements dialed it down just a little that would be very helpful.
     
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