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What To Do With Withdrawn Dlc

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Doomotron, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of DLC that has been withdrawn from the Train Sim store, and sadly a lot of the older stuff will probably never come back, but there is stuff that has only been withdrawn recently that could still come back.
    • North Wales Coastal: Remove ATW branding from the 158 and 175, and put the 221 into Avanti West Coast livery.
    • Virgin Class 390: Release the scenarios from the pack as a separate scenario pack that uses the Class 390 from the WCML South DLC. Perhaps add an extra scenario for the Voyager as well?
    • Virgin Trains Heritage: Put the Class 47 and Mark 2 coaches into InterCity livery. As for the HST, they could do the same, or they could put in a bit of extra effort and modify the LNER HST for the re-released pack.
    • Class 220/221: Remove the CrossCountry branding. And while they're at it, hopefully they could finally separate the 220 and 221 instead of the weird hybrid we have now.
    • Arriva Trains Wales DMU Pack: Remove ATW branding and rerelease the DLC for the 'new' South Wales Coastal route.
    If you can think of any more withdrawn DLC, including those from other countries, feel free to say what they could do with it.
     
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  2. dcr raptor

    dcr raptor Member

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    As far as the North Wales Coastal Route is concerned, I'd prefer to have the 158 and 175 carrying TFW colours if the 221 is going to be rebranded to Avanti West Coast. ATW running on the same route as Avanti would look a bit out of place, and getting a licence for TFW would mean DTG could start publishing more Welsh routes again, although I hope that they get a similar deal to what they seem to have with First, where there isn't a time limit on how long they can sell branded content for.
    Also, regarding the Cross Country Class 220, as Cross Country were granted an extension to their franchise until 2023, it might be worth attempting to negotiate a new agreement with them, as their successor won't be running in their own colours until 2024.
     
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  3. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    They put London Midland with Avanti, and I expect that TFW aren't keen on licensing otherwise it would already have been done...
     
  4. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Member

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    For the unbranded CrossCountry Class 220, i expect a Class 220 with purple fronts, silver body and pink doors. Some routes like: Southampton to Bournemouth, WCML South and Riviera Line need him.
     
  5. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    So, just the CrossCountry livery?
     
  6. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Member

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    Yeah, to avoid any licensing issues.
     
  7. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Let's go from top to bottom.

    North Wales Coastal: yes, we have multiple discussions around the forums on this, and it's one of the things I personally have given many ideas for. Namely, extending it to re-release it as a new DLC given the extension only had a year, maybe year and a half on the market. It could indeed take the Avanti branding, and it could also be extended to meet Trent Valley or even Birmingham, the latter a good possibility given their interest in the area of late (even Cross City). It could even take another path to meet the Midland Main Line. However, none of these are happening right now. I suspect they already deviated from their plans to get SWC out again, and want to work on other projects However, I still think it wouldn't hurt to take a week to unbrand the routes and bundle them together, even as two separate extensions, then revisit it with new branding as a new item with the best possible extension aside from the London Euston connection: Chester to Shrewsbury. This would allow for a proper connection to the South Wales Coastal route via the Welsh Marches. All we need then is a Welsh Marches extension to Crewe and the coast is pretty much complete unless a trip along the western shore is considered someday, which is a fairly long path. There is also the MerseyRail service north of Chester, but this seems too complex for us, though West Kirby is near another possible route with a Class 150/2 that I researched recently. The fact that they aren't touching it right now tells me they want to make this a new project, not a revisit, and we'll see if and then that is.

    Virgin Class 390: there are already skins for this to apply to the WCML South livery. While scenario cloning and editing puts us into a sort of grey area, the fact that the scenarios are no longer available lends to the idea of visiting them with other trains. Would those owners re-releasing them be considered priacy? Maybe. But it's never been seen as a negative to look at a scenario a different way and release your vision. On ATS there is a pack "remastering" the Welsh Marches, and it basically adds AP trains to existing scenarios. People could easily do this with the Virgin scenarios and use the WCMLS 390 with the Virgin skin applied from Major Wales, requiring the application of the AP 390 Sound Pack to use (or an alternative UKTS find that does not require said sound pack). I'm not going to advise on whether to post such work, but I know I would not be objectionable to playing the scenarios if they ever came across my access and I didn't know any better. I would just not want to have exact copies as THAT without a doubt hits the piracy line. As for using the Voyager, again, any user can add the Voyager from WCMLS into these scenarios, or even add the Voyager Advanced.

    Virgin Trains First Generation Pack: this is dead in the water. I don't even know what route the scenarios are for, and I own the pack. The fact that it reskins other trains already in our possession (if there are any unique ones, they can find or may already have a new home) means this pack will never see the light of day again. Which sucks, because there are reskins out there for models from this pack, meaning the models themselves need to reappear to use those models. I'm pretty sure DTG, Armstrong, JT, etc. would rather put those liveries up for sale themselves. Search for "Virgin" on UKTS and grab the skins you can find there, I believe I downloaded an HST based on Kuju.

    Class 220/221: why are you not using the Voyager Advanced from Just Trains? This is a 220/221 pack. Though I agree, Steam really needs to have a new one to replace the removed one. I am salty because I didn't know it was going away and I could have acquired it, but a friend of mine did exactly what I said two paragraphs up and wanted to try putting the Voyager Advanced in those scenarios, and sent them to me. I'll look at them in due time. No hurry. I also am curious how that obviously better model handles those scenarios, and may even put the WCMLS 221 in there for shiggles.

    Arriva Wales DMU Pack: if they wanted to have this back out, they had their chance. It's not going to happen. We have a 143 in Riviera Line, and 158s all over the place including as its own DLC pack with Armstrong enhancements already preferred. Luckily, like the Virgin pack, I got this one in time, and it's only four scenarios you're really missing that could have been added to the SWC pack, and were best done that way. Oh well.

    By the way, you forgot the scenario pack. Same thing. But it's also by another developer. So DTG can't touch that, and it's up to that developer to bring a new version back. They would also have to scrub the 220 from the scenario it makes a guest appearance in. They could use the 221, however, from WCMLS if they wanted to, but I doubt they would..
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    DTG and the previous franchise holders of TfW were in talks about IP but this didn't complete when COVID hit, and of course it's now passing back to the Welsh Government so they'll probably have to start all over again
     
  9. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    People have 'reversed-engineered' scenarios in the past. Someone has redone the Hedborough North scenarios for the Workshop version. I believe that the only thing DTG truly considers to be their copyright is the GeoPcDx model files, and possibly the BIN files used by the trains and wagons, so it should be fine for someone to remake the scenarios.

    I still play with the original version of the Class 390 because I don't own either of the new ones (and the default sounds are better on the original). This guy on UKTS has reskinned the original into more modern liveries so that'll be good for me until I get WCML South.
    The Class 47 was a new one, with new features and possibly new modelling as well. It was considered the best 47 for the game and currently we have no alternative. The HST was also an upgrade, albeit less of one, and was better than the 'upgraded' one from South Wales Coastal (that thing is awful and possibly worse than the original Kuju version). Luckily, the Armstrong Powerhouse HSTs with the Major Wales upgrades can easily replace it, and the Virgin FG HST was already just an extra for the 47, so losing it won't be that bad. Losing the 47, though, is a tragedy.
    The DTG one has better modelling, and was cheaper. Granted, it didn't have as many features as the JT one, but I do still enjoy it. The WCML one also appears to have the correct bogies, so it seems the work is already done for it.
     
  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There is also the original Project Platform/Phorum Peninsula that was withdrawn and contains a number of narrow gauge and tram assets which are no longer elsewhere. The PP stuff was used by route builders such as myself as one of the selling points being, in addition to the route providing at the time a much needed content pack for decorating our own route projects.
     
  11. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Happily PP did come back, but the assets were all in a new location which means they couldn't work with routes that needed the original route. Luckily, I own both, and what a beautiful route it is...
     
  12. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Worth noting that Richard Armstrong does it differently. He strictly does not want his older scenarios getting around. In fact, I bought Wherry at Steam before realizing that he had the same route in a different version at his site, and I asked about the other five scenarios because I happen to have the JT 153 and eventually may get the GEML 90 (esp. now that I've bought the others), and he was like uh-uh, you should have bought at my site instead. Uh, what if we didn't know at the time? And why should I have to buy the entire route a second time just to play five scenarios? It's not like Steam will refund my earlier purchase because it's available somewhere else.
     
  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Only the NG stuff I believe and as you say under a different provider/location.
     
  14. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Where are the assets now? Clear Creek?
     
  15. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The narrow gauge stuff turned up on the Corris route I believe. The tram bits went nowhere...
     
  16. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Pity. I wish the route still existed.
     
  17. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    The London Transport Heritage version does have the narrow gauge and tram track, but not the trains.
    All (or at least most) in the LT Heritage route, but in different directories meaning they can't be used in things that need the original PP route.
    The Corris narrow gauge stuff is different. The trams were based on the freeware one from UKTS, and I believe the narrow gauge stock was also from UKTS. In fact most of the assets in Phorum Peninsula are straight from UKTrainSim!
     
  18. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    In other words, if it's known where the assets were for the original route, someone could unpack and move the assets to there as a second copy and those requirements would be met?
     
  19. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you could do that, but doing it for hundreds (and possibly thousands) of assets is unrealistic and not worth spending time on.
     
  20. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Right, but if it's the same generic set of assets and moving a folder does the job, then touche. Of course, unless you see the specific asset folder you're duplicating, it may be hard to replicate unless the AP file itself is identical.
     

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