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Wheres The Editor??????

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Jonny, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If you watch the march madness video where they were playing the new switcher Matt talks for a while about how the AI in the game can "find" consists even on different tracks to where they would normally be and how flexible the system is with regards to locating objects within the playing world, so I don't think there is no dispatching logic, I think it's probably more flexible in some ways than TSx
    And that there are standalone scenarios already in game would also say it's more than possible outside of service mode
     
  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The fact that AI can run round a train and couple up to consists in TSW, which it can't in TS1 suggests there some degree of dispatching logic. The dispatcher in TS1 is often illogical which can make anything but simple scenarios frustrating.
     
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  3. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    It has it's limits and indeed it does seem twisted logic at times. But the fact that in timetable mode if you run late the dispatcher will route a later starting train onto the track ahead of you, then only allowing you to proceed as it clears the blocks ahead, would indicate that there's some logic going on. It's not just train A goes before train B (although maybe on scenarios that might be the case). I think the timetable is scripted and the dispatcher works around the players actions the best it can.

    I remember Matt on the Peninsula Corridor stream saying they'd improved the dispatcher AI and were working to introduce it onto further (previous?) routes.
     
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  4. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    A couple of months ago, so apologies if I don't remember exactly, I was driving a Darlington to Saltburn train. It was one where the cement train leaves soon after and follows you as far as Thornaby. I was deliberately taking my time setting the train up and was probably about five minutes late leaving. I don't worry about action points and don't use the HUD, i just wanted something different and to see what signals I might encounter. To my surprise, instead of following me, the cement train was spawned at Eaglescliffe and got in front of me! Not a prototypical routing I guess but the AI had worked out a way to keep the timetable on track.
     
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  5. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    Ok so as i completely reconstruct the timetable, i can tell you there is no AI in it, all of it is completely scripted - just check the editor stream and you will see the button Simulate -> thats when the scripting start -> dispatcher is just a script in the editor for that simulation and have no function in the game. Just check my testing timetable youtube movie and you will see. I completely reconstruct one service from MSB timetable, its the service at 4:29 AM. If you start original timetable than you will see that the train is coming on the platform later - 4:36 as there is other service coming first. My service as you can see on that movie, will stop in the begin of the platform. First time i dont know why as i reconstruct the service completely but then i find out that there is the second service. So the train is not suppose to be that early on the platform so it stopped - by that time there is formation switch, thats why.
    Maybe you think, just change the start time... not working like that, changing start time will completely ruin the service as I was using the original Master Data file for the route and in that file there is information for each piece of track, for every junction, every signal - times when the train will be there, when the train will leave the track, when is the junction suppose to switch, ... so yeah sometimes it looks in the game that there is AI but there is not... the junctions are usually switched couple of times so it looks like there is working dispatcher - thats one of the reason there is no multiplayer - you cant control junctions (only the manual ones).
    And without that data, there is no clear path which you can use. There is no working traffic as they use the times from all rails (enter time, leave time).
    So when i change the start time for that service it just stop completely working - master data dont have that times on the rails and junctions - for correct working i will have to completely reconstruct the rail, junction and signal path in master data file. So stop dreaming about AI and working dispatcher, there is non - working AI will be pick point A, pick end point, pick stop points and let the game do the dispatcher work (i tried that and its not working - all red lights, no correct ) - now the game is just following scripted file... and thats the reason why the traffic stop after midnight (if you start at 23:55 than after 0:00 there is no new traffic as the file dont have it for second day - yeah there is option to loop it but its not setup on the timetables yet).

     
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  6. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Yes there is AI. The AI dispatcher can change priorities. It can’t change the routing, but it can change priorities.
     
  7. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for this - this is possibly the most useful post I have ever seen on the Forums. And it maybe confirms a few of my suspicions, that the train movements are entirely scripted....

    I think that this means that once you have built out a scripted timetable, that all you need to do, say, to create x200 timetabled services, would be to tweak a few starting variables. And you possibly wouldn't even then test the scenarios by playing them - it would just be a sheet of data - which is maybe why so many scenarios and services are broken when a DLC is released.....?
     
  8. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    Proof?
     
  9. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I have another theory about the Editor.... which is that the scenarios that have been provided so far in TSW for both PC and console... are already at breaking in point in terms of performance....

    So if DTG release an Editor, and people try to build/edit scenarios on them with more than two moving trains anywhere near each other.... then the performance will drop unbearably - including on PC. If DTG released an Editor where you could build your own heavily stripped down routes, then you could probably run some trains on your own route.

    As an aside: I have very recently tested TSW on PS4 Pro and a new high-spec PC - and to my surprise... the PS4 Pro performance was considerably better than the PC performance - and that's a software stripped PC rig that is exclusively dedicated to running sims, with virtually no clutter on it at all.
     
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  10. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    All priorities are setup in timetables for each service, so simulate mode in editor just follow the settings there and setup the right priority on the track. The game just follow what is in the data track file.
     
  11. Trim

    Trim Active Member

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    I agree.
    A very quick one can be found in Northern Transpennine. Take the Class 101 Empty Coaching Stock Move at 19:50 and drive it as fast as you can (you can ignore the speed limits - to some degree at any rate). If you are fast enough, you will be crossed at Miles Platting in front of the 19:48 Manchester Victoria to Leeds. Now restart the journey and go at a more leisured pace and you will see the 19:48 Manchester Victoria to Leeds cross in front of you at Miles Platting.
    There is scripting for trains to spawn in the correct locations whatever time you spawn in at (not really the correct locations in some cases) and, as has been said, routing is fixed.

    If you pay attention, it is possible to see pathing decisions being made. In NTP with BR Heavy Freight, the route for freight trains through Huddersfield Station loop heading towards Leeds is set when the train reaches somewhere close to signal HU709, between Marsden and Slaithwaite stations. If there isn't already a conflicting route set up, the route is cleared for the freight train. There is a particular situation involving the 20:55 Huddersfield to Leeds DMU. The signalman (in British parlance) won't clear the signal for the DMU till departure time, so if the approaching 7E64 oil train reaches signal HU709 before 20:55, then it gets the route through the station in front of the DMU. If it does not, then the DMU goes first. Since the oil train's position at a given time depends on what time you spawned in at, you can easily see this. If you spawn in at 20:50 or later, the oil train will reach (or have reached) the decision point before 20:55 and gets priority. If you spawn in at 20:45 or earlier, then the oil train won't reach the decision point before 20:55 and the DMU will go first. This is entirely with AI drivers; all the player needs to do is wait on a platform somewhere and watch it happen.

    Sometimes, there is more fancy scripting. Loco NH03 in NTP Heavy Freight won't leave the fuel road at Newton Heath until the RB03 loco has uncoupled from the newspaper vans in Manchester Victoria platform 11. However, it is the fixed pathing that is really the letdown, and I wonder if this is really what you have run up against. If you are driving RB03, for example, and don't uncouple from the train, the signalman dispatcher will happily bring oil train 6M18 down to the station throat at Manchester Victoria, even though platform 11 (where the oil train also wants to go) is occupied with the newpaper vans and loco NH03 is still sat at Newton Heath. The particularly daft thing is that there are at least three routes from Newton Heath to Manchester Victoria, each with independent entry to platform 11, yet the signalman brings RB03 down the same route as 6M18. If 6M18 gets there first, it will wait forever to get into platform 11 because the newspaper vans are already there but the locomotive to pull them away is trapped in behind it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
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  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't know why surprised... been known forever that TSW routes aren't optimised on ANY system

    Matt's said before that some things are essentially overloads (such as GWE) so their performance is just about always going to be poor but without rebuilding them from scratch there's little they can do
     
  13. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying that the very poor performance of TSW on PC is holding back the development of the simulator on the more "powerful" (or maybe "more suitably architectured"....) PS4 Pros.... ?

    So maybe when PS5 comes out - an Editor could be launched for PS5 for sharing content between users for free, but maybe most PCs won't be able to handle it....? So maybe you could have a console-based scenario/traffic editor for TSW, and have the PC-based editor solely on TS2020, which is doing quite nicely.

    Do you know something..... maybe that could work.....! ;-)
     
  14. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    OK. Although I think we might be talking about different things. The trains or dispatcher aren't actively thinking, which is why just changing timetable data won't work*.

    All I said is there's just some logic that functions around the players position in the game with things adjusting accordingly. Sometimes incorrectly. Just as Trim and others point out above. And yes I can encounter slightly different events if I'm not running to the normal times.

    *I would think that the actual editor DTG uses probably checks and rescripts all the required events to make the changes work.

    I'll certainly try to because those ones about Skynet are disturbing!
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
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  15. Callum B.

    Callum B. Active Member

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    Now this piques my curiosity. Could you be a little more precise? What settings did you run with on PC and what were the framerates like on each? My understanding is that the console versions of the game are locked to 30FPS but that may not be true for the enhanced variants of the console (One X/PS4 Pro). What hardware does the PC have? I don't believe DTG have made any specific optimisations for consoles outside of the route design itself (which isn't a platform specific optimisation) so this is very interesting to me. Console hardware is not all too unlike PC hardware, especially the new generation coming out very soon.

    The PS4's APU is quite capable no doubt, but it is still held back by the same microarchitectural limitations of Bulldozer/Piledriver (PC equivalent architectures). From what I gather, the equivalent CPU/GPU combo to the PS4 Pro's APU is an FX-8350 and Radeon RX480. As expected, the GCN-based GPU is very modest and holds up well for mid-settings 1080p/60FPS but the CPU would definitely hold back the system as a whole with its MUCH lower IPC and real-world single-threaded performance (comparatively to current CPU offerings in the PC space--even the bottom of the barrel Zen2 parts would outwit a Jaguar CPU), particularly in CPU-bound, low-threaded games such as Train Sim World.

    So to reiterate, I am very curious about the parts inside this "high-spec" PC and the settings used within the game. I run a somewhat dated system (CPU is from 2014, grief!) but I am able to run everything on max with engine.ini enhancements without dipping under 60, so long as I am on the mainline and not somewhere like Cumberland yard! Perhaps the frametimes were more consistent on the PS4 (being locked to 30FPS would help) and thus provided a more enjoyable viewing experience? This is all very fascinating.

    Aha, I see what you did there. ;)
    To provide a real answer to that, no I do not think Bulldozer/Piledriver/Jaguar and GCN are more suitable architectures than [INSERT] Lake/Zen2 or Turing/Navi. The aforementioned architectures are nearly a decade old at this point and their age is showing. The new consoles should not have the issue that the last-generation consoles had at launch, that issue of course being launched with already subpar components. AMD's new architectural offerings this time around are pretty astounding. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
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  16. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    Availability of a TSW editor for consoles is entirely dependent on Epic, since the TSW version is a heavily modified variant of the default. IF Epic do make the UE4 editor for the next gen of consoles, then I would imagine that the TSW version would follow suit. I don't think that platform-based performance is really a huge limiting factor, with the exception of Heavy Haul, which I think ran poorly on pretty much everyone's PC due to how many 3D trees had to be rendered. From the sounds of it, the TSW editor is similar to the MSTS one, if anyone still remembers that, where it's an entirely separate program that builds files into a format the game can use, as opposed to the TS and Trainz style editor where it is built into the game itself. How content is actually delivered to players is another matter altogether, of course, and I'm not sure how DTG are going to handle that one.
     
  17. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yep - I found it fascinating... But - my reported experience here was also based on just one run (which frankly, is one run more than DTG ever do with their new DLC on PS4, as we have found out with the audio for the DB BR 155).

    I might be tempted to go back and properly write-up a bench-marked comparison for you (as far as I am able). But there is a shorter way to nourish the discussion... which would be to ask.... what do you regard to be a "high spec PC"....? Or put another way - what is the minimum spec PC that you need for TSW to run as intended, with full graphics settings, at say a minimum sustained 30 FPS, without any glitches, screen freezes, late pop-ins, unexpected late spawnings, and PS2 quality LoD....?

    I want to be quite open about my motives here. Basically - I am now convinced that TSW has been built out extremely badly, with very poor optimisation. But if you have a PS4 or XBox, the performance issues are put down to the PS4 and XBox not being as powerful as a PC. But if you have a PC, then the defence is "yes - but you need a high powered PC" - and if you have a high-powered PC, then the defence is "But we designed it to be used with Next Gen PCs....".

    So how much power do you need....? I have an eight core CPU, but I doubt that the third core even flickers, with TSW on. I'd have to check the clock speed, but I think it is currently set to 4.3 GhZ. I have a limited edition version of an 8Gb GPU, with a slight manufacturer-tuned over-clock built-in. And TSW's performance was utter trash, compared to the PS4 Pro....

    Really - what do you need to run TSW - at full beans.....? Do you need infinite power...? Because I believe that you could build a train simulator that massively outperforms TSW, and build it in UE4 with all of the bells and whistles... and that a three year old PS4 Pro with HDD would have absolutely no problem with providing enough performance, to make it an entirely flawless experience. If you optimised the content sensibly.

    I now fully believe that any indication that the PS4 Pro is not really powerful enough to run a train simulator properly is completely mythical. Not when you look at what the PS4 Pro can do with other titles...
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  18. Callum B.

    Callum B. Active Member

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    I would be very grateful to you if you could. :)

    I would regard a high-spec PC as one being able to sustain 1080p/60FPS with High settings in just about every game including AAA. Others might disagree, but these are my standards. For reference, as you may already know, console games are usually locked to the equivalent of Medium (and in extreme cases, medium-low) graphics settings on PC. This varies of course, but is largely true with your typical graphics-intensive game. I am not sure what the settings on console are for TSW, but the draw distance looks a lot shorter (to save on the CPU load).

    I wholeheartedly agree. The CPU optimisation is years behind what it could be and these newfangled 6/8-core CPUs are not being fully utilised (let alone a quad-core, yikes). DTG have made "optimisations", which to be fair has allowed newer content to run much smoother than older content--but it almost always amounts to removing scenery entirely instead of using more LODs/distant 2D sprites.

    You're pretty much right about that. I made a post a while back where I loosely tested core usage by artificially disabling certain cores that the game could access and measure how much of a performance drop resulted from that. Long story short, the game is primarily optimised for 2 cores, with the rest flailing for something to due (just asset streaming, likely).

    IPC (Instructions Per Cycle) also matters. If you have an Intel CPU from the last 5-6 years, there really are no excuses. Same is true for any Ryzen 2000/3000 chips (1-2 years old). I am running on a Haswell-E 6-core CPU (circa 2014) running at 3.5GHz and it handles anything I throw at it, including the very impressive Shadow of the Tomb Raider at 80-90FPS on ultra settings, however it struggles in Hagen yard at something like 30FPS. As said before, I have very few performance issues outside of dense yards (averaging 75 FPS on Ruhr-Sieg Nord on ultra settings with engine.ini enhancements, for example), but the fact that the yards remain at that level of unoptimisation is frustrating to say the least.
    If you are running an AMD FX CPU, then it really is no wonder why your performance is suffering. The IPC on those chips is terrible, and high clock speeds can only do so much.

    I reckon that your GPU, given that is has 8GB of VRAM, is new enough to be more than capable of handling TSW on the GPU side of things, and would wager that it is your CPU giving you the bottleneck. I may well be wrong since I am working without component model numbers, but that it what it appears to be.

    Yep, because even though it's Jaguar CPU is terrible (and I mean TERRIBLE with it's low clock speed and poor IPC, sorry), modern game developers are able to make use of all of its cores to evenly spread the workload and make the most out of the hardware that's available, making the multicore performance of the Jaguar 8-core comparable a more powerful (at least in terms of single-threaded applications) 4-core on PC. DTG has done no such thing.
    The PS4 Pro is a powerful console, more powerful than 95% of computors sold globally (office computers and tablets and other lower-end devices make up the majority of that, because gaming computers are really quite niche in terms of market share), but it is certainly not more powerful than the average gaming PC (~$500, 1080p/60FPS at medium graphics settings). And I think it is that reason why the buck is being passed from "the game has poor optimisation" to "you have weak hardware".
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  19. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    You might be right about the CPU - but I think it should be fine for TSW. It might struggle to get 99+ fps on an intense FPS shooter with lots of near-field objects, but on my target application (racing simulations) - it's easily up for 120 fps... and frankly I only need 45 fps, and I can happily live with a minimum 30 FPS in a racing game - I am actually very tolerant of low frame-rate (as long as it doesn't drop out). My system is:

    Eight core AMD Ryzen 7 2700X at 4.3Ghz, Radeon RX 5700XT (50th Anniversary), 16Gb 2400Mhz RAM, with TSW wholly installed on a relatively clean 480 Gb Kingston SSD (with Win10). So, it's not a high-end i9 with a 2080Ti... but it really should be good enough to run TSW - without having to breathe. It's a very cool-running CPU, barely gets above body-temperature... ;-)

    I specified this system as the highest power system you can get without the need for any advanced cooling... although I was tempted by the hot-running Ryzen 5 3600, with slightly faster RAM. I might upgrade my RAM to 32Mb of 2666 MHz in a few months, and get a 2% improvement (on outright speed) - apparently there is no additional benefit to get 3000Mhz OC... fractions of a per cent maybe...

    As an aside - there is nothng that TS2020 can throw at my PC to make it even blink - TS2020 is absolutely fine with all sliders on maximum... absolutely perfectly smooth, with no lag ever... even with multiple trains moving around... A delight, in fact.
     
  20. Callum B.

    Callum B. Active Member

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    Your CPU is fine, it's definitely not the bottleneck. It is actually quite a bit more powerful than mine (both in single thread and multithread). Given your specs, I struggle to think of what's holding your system back. I know Zen is very dependant on RAM speed, but moving up to 3000MHz or 3200MHz shouldn't make that much of a difference from 2400MHz. Overall you have a more powerful system than I do but yours is performing worse. GPU driver issues? I am not sure. But you definitely shouldn't be averaging 30-45 with your system. Something is wrong and I don't think it is necessarily the game in this case. TSW runs on DX11, which as far as I know RTG (AMD) has good drivers for. Using something like RivaTunerStatistics (comes with MSI Afterburner) may reveal the bottleneck. Something is preventing you from getting the full performance you paid for.

    EDIT: Oops I think we are going far off-topic now. If you would like some help in figuring out the problem, I would be happy to help in DMs or something. Your performance numbers are both concerning and intriguing.
     
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  21. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Good point on off-topic. I think it is possible that the performance is generally similar, but that the PS4 handles the tile-streaming more smoothly - this is the main difference on PC that I am seeing. Anyway...

    ....if an Editor appears, and it is not cross-platform... then it just strikes me as more reasonable to issue it for the PS4/5 - a platform that can be optimised for and properly triangled in maybe two months - rather than for PC, which is a moving target that can't be optimised for (and there is seemingly no motivation to optimise for...)..... and anyway PC already has an Editor for TS2020.... The optimisation point is the main point - this is where TSW is massively under-performing - and it varies significantly by route.... which is frankly... quite insane...

    If DTG knocked out a cross-platform Editor with guidelines to optimise the content for the PS5 (which will be just under the power of the next XBox).... then it would be a stable target to aim at - and the resulting content over the next five or six years would be much easier to make and more pleasant to use. You'd also be able to properly provide benchmark recommendations for the PC... and everyone would be very much happier....

    So - an Editor - end Q4 2020.... benchmarked to the new PS5.... please... And in the meantime, DTG could maybe fix the DB BR 155 on PS4, and make the TSW UI work so that it can count stuff. You have to learn to walk, before you can run, after all.... ;-O
     
  22. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    In the words of Daryl Kerrigan (from "The Castle" movie), "Tell him his dreaming". People develop applications and games on PCs because they are made for it and do it well. Perhaps future consoles will be made for similar tasks but the current ones certainly aren't. As I mentioned in another thread the editor is based on Unreal Engine 4 which is only for PC.
     
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  23. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've used the UE4 editor on my Mac and it's definitely not something I'd ever expect to see on a console.
     
  24. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - this is one of the reasons why every thread about The Editor explodes... because everyone has a completely different idea what an Editor is for.... which breaks down as follows (not an exhaustive list):

    - a developer's kit for route creation and rolling stock creation
    - a developer's kit for route creation
    - a developer's kit for rolling stock creation
    - a developer's kit for scenario creation and testing
    - a user feature for applying liveries to rolling stock
    - a user feature for creating scenarios on existing developed routes and rolling stock
    - a user feature for sharing liveries and/or scenarios

    Although the PC (whatever the spec is....) might be the only platform for software development (map development, 3D modelling of assets and scripting....) - there is easily scope for PS4 and XBox to have user features to share basic content like user-generated scenarios and liveries. But those user features would need to be developed... and given the state of the existing UI (which should be prioritised for fixing) - I think that the user feature "Editor" is a very long way off - so I will need to do more than just dream - I'd need to be put in an induced coma for twenty years... at the current rate of progress....
     
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm saying it's likely not optimised for any system. That they'r trying to get a similar experience on all architectures is probably futile anyway
     
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think PS4 had channels for mods and user generated content, certainly in other games I see that are cross platform it's fairly well known that mods are basically "PC only" (eg cities skylines) unless there is a content pack put out by the developer specifically (such as sims 4), so in essence, it's still "1st party releases only"
     
  27. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    There are plenty of games on PS4 where you share content within the game's environment:

    GT Sport - You can create liveries and share them
    Gran Turismo 6 - Track path editor using real world GPS data
    TrackMania Turbo - You can build tracks and set challenges
    Supercross 3 - Track editor
    Dirt 4 - This has a limited version of a track generator

    Obviously DTG have development tools for making software using UE. And yes - some very few people might want to get into UE game development.

    But I suspect that the vast majority of TSW users just want a scenario producer... so that they can place their rolling stock and run trains on existing routes with existing rolling stock, so that they can use the yards on MSB, for example. You don't need the UE editor to do that - but you'd need to build the feature into TSW's UI... and you could make it cross-platform. You'd also have to ensure that all of the rolling stock could be used on all routes.... and I suspect that DTG are finding it very difficult just to achieve that - as can be seen with the DB BR 155 on RSN on PS4, which doesn't even work on the route that it was designed for.
     
  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that's true, but then I believe it's only happened by accident in the past (class 08)
    I know you have the whole bee in your bonnet thing about the 155 so I'm not going to go near that one
     
  29. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    Ok i have to fix some stuff from my post before. Like i wrote before, all is scripted -> well its true and its not true. Its scripted for AI and traffic to know where they suppose to be in exact time of that day. That is why there is times for each rail, junction etc... Without those data you will have to start the game at 0:00 and just play the whole day and the AI dispatcher will work. So yeah, i can set start point, set destination point and if there is path connecting this 2 points than im ready to go - so there is AI dispatcher and i was wrong with that - i dont try it before without that master data. Dispatcher is making decision about priority too (it is about the priority settings for each service)
    So if there is timetable for the whole day and you dont have that master data, it will be in such a huge mess, if you start with formation at 10AM, than all other formations before that time will still be on their spawn points (maybe even blocking your ways as they dont have data where they suppose to be in that exact time) and they will not move (only if the same formation is used again during the day).
    So there is my fixed post about AI - there is one and i was wrong but now i know as i was able to test it and prove it.
    Here is prove video of working AI as i create new line on MSB, there is no scripted Master data, only instructions where to go and what to do there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  30. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    When the editing tools are available it’s going to be a game changer for TSW.
     
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  31. nyswat19

    nyswat19 Member

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    We hope for that day and u wouldn't here a peep outta me except how to do something in the editor and 10 stars and recommend it when i can.. but untill then i just try to keep my head up :)
     
  32. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Member

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    Never going to be an editor, DTG are not capable of creating one.

    The quality of the rest of the game components is testament to that fact.

    Apart from decent graphics, the rest of it is very poor as far as realism goes.

    They never had the skill to turn Railworks\TS into anything more than a mediocre train driving game.

    So don't hold your breathe in regards TSW.
     
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  33. Raytheon

    Raytheon New Member

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    Returned to this forum to see if the game had been worked on at all by the devs, appears nothing has changed in two years, its all but abandoned.

    Two years ago there was big hype around a scenario maker, steam engines, multiplayer and full modding tools, even VR support but as of April 2020 the game is sadly dead.

    Tragically this game will go down as one of if not the best West Somerset Railway sims which has sadly fallen on hard times and will be lucky to survive the season.

    Press F
     
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  34. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    The fact that Rivet games now brings the first real third party addon may give some hope. It is by now embarrassing that there is not any progress reported, nor any comment from the side of DTG. It may be difficult, but a bit more transpancy would be welcome.
     
  35. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    That they say nothing if it is problematic. They almost act Just like crosstie studios Link
    They would develop a train simulator. but we noticed that it was only slower and slower and finally no update at all in a long time
    But they kept insisting that it was not closed down. But they let it down 2015.
    If Dovetail put it down tell it then. Or tell us how far they've come. The silent is worst.
     
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  36. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    In stream yesterday Matt was asked, Is the multiplayer and editor cancelled. Somewhere in this stream
    No he say. that's good but we have heard the same answer for 1.5 years now.
    There must be news of who they can show after 1.5 years.
     
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  37. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    More chance of us all receiving a vaccine for COVID-19 before we have the editor!
     
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  38. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    That's a 100%
     
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  39. richard.bohlman

    richard.bohlman New Member

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    I want to start making a few routes and reskinning a few engines, I hope the Editor is available soon!
     
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  40. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    Where's the editor? The editor. The editor. Waaa waaa waaa. This is so tiring.
    To be honest, I have yet to see anything good made on Train Simulator by anybody using the editor asides content made by actual developers like Rivet Games, etc.
     
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  41. Callum B.

    Callum B. Active Member

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    Tomcat's Cajon Pass Alpha is a very beautifully-crafted bit of freeware. ;)
     
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  42. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    As is the Columbia Valley Pacific ;)
    Screenshot_Columbia Valley Pacific Railway(V1a)_49.46147--120.46759_12-03-50.jpg
    Everything in this shot, apart from the sky, is freeware. Having an editor allows great content like this to be created and shared by people, and even things like reskins are a huge plus to the community.
     
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  43. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Well-Known Member

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    I think the one thing that has to be thought about is how the whole thing is structured. Finding freeware community output on TSxx is a nightmare in terms of missing assets because the end user doesnt have the same dlc as the creator. Restrictions on what can be edited/created might be a way forward so that if you search for ECW as an example, you know that the output created is only an edit of assets included in that route.
     
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  44. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Im relatively new to train sim currently PS4 TSW about to move onto PC TSW. Have no 1st hand experience of TSxx. In terms of assets though, seeing as we're starting a fresh with TSW. Couldnt a cloud/library be set up for any user 3rd party to store assets created. Easily located by a name search for say ie type London O2 Arena. If someone has built one and saved it to the dtg cloud. A route builder (working for a team, or amateur) could view it and decide if they want to use it on their route. Or build an alternative. We'd have major landmark assets for every Town City pretty sharpish, if the creation of buildings was made accessible. I think we'd be suprised at what "lay folk" can do when motivated by the prospect of helping a favoured route get in the sim.
    Side note. Ive had the FPS tracker on my release day base PS4 and at times it can get to 45 FPS (East Coastway) and other times for brief moments -17-20 FPS ie OOC on GWE. In general, since TSW2020 and last winters update, apart from the Miles Platting issue on NTP that comes and goes with every update it seems. The game for me, on PS4 is quite a smooth experience. Callum B.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
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  45. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Picture this: the DTG team assigned to developing the TSW editor huddled around a computer . . . slogging through all of the pointless, nagging & niggling threads about the editor. Remember Bo-Peep's sheep? "Leave them alone and they'll come home / Wagging their tails behind them."
     
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  46. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    When the editing tools are available hopefully Long Island will be extended.
     
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  47. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    With all the time and effort put into the editor, I'd be very surprised (if/when it does see the light of day) it will be a free addition!

    We'll probably have something like TSW2035 Standard Edition and TSW2035 Editor Edition (x2 the price of Standard) which would be fair enough
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
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  48. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    If the editing tools are released you could do it yourself. I'm sure there are some equally enthusiastic and talented people who could assist you with it. Nothing will happen though until the editor is made public and who knows when that will be.
     
  49. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    the editing tools are available to only the third party developers.
     
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  50. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I meant released to the public (if it will happen). You're right, only third party developers have them at the moment.
     

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